GDT: Indians @ Blue Jays (1 of 3) - 7:07PM EST

[TheHurl]

his D is still other worldly.

 

I've missed a bunch of games and often watch while at work so not paying 100% attention but his metrics at SS are pretty bad so far (-3 DRS)

[VE2OH]

Why would anyone talk to Goins about his improvements at the plate. He's still s***...he had a good game. He's still got to be off this team IMO

 

Would you rather have Upton. LOL

[King]

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5206-Ryan-Goins-New-Swing

This thread was legendary

[o2cui2i]

I've missed a bunch of games and often watch while at work so not paying 100% attention but his metrics at SS are pretty bad so far (-3 DRS)

 

he makes most plays a top end catcher makes but can also make some that not many can get done. some of the mistakes he's made this year it's a case of rust. His arm is really good as well

[FrozenRopes]

Probably. Wilner is a big SJW, in case you thought it impossible for him to get any more insufferable.

 

Snowflake as a mofo

[KingKat]

he makes most plays a top end catcher makes but can also make some that not many can get done. some of the mistakes he's made this year it's a case of rust. His arm is really good as well

 

Are you two even talking about the same guy? He was talking about Goins at ss.

[Terminator]

 

Gibby is a beaut. We all want to give Carapazza a piece of our mind. I'm glad he did.

[Boxcar]

This thread was legendary

 

It was. GD has no respect for the dead, little arsehole.

[Brownie19]

 

Gibby is a beaut. We all want to give Carapazza a piece of our mind. I'm glad he did.

 

I love how he chirps the "smug smile". f*** Vic.

[Brownie19]

yep, he has been that way since he heard that Howorth's story about how he hasn't said the word since 1992.

 

I know everyone loves to s*** all over Wilner (I actually like him to be honest), but doesn't this garner a hint of respect? Or do you guys all think Howarth is a SJW too?

[Jonn]

I know everyone loves to s*** all over Wilner (I actually like him to be honest), but doesn't this garner a hint of respect? Or do you guys all think Howarth is a SJW too?

 

Sounds like one to be honest. If the intention was to disrespect a people. Naming your Baseball team after them isn't a great way to do it.

 

If anything it's empowering and makes them appear strong. The intention was never to offend. Now apparently it is.

 

There names and traditions have been around for so long. Shouldn't have to change them or made out to be racists because a collection of people don't like it.

 

I'm fine with the Redskins team name. But I can understand why people want it changed. It doesn't appear it was happen in the current owners lifetime. And even with all the protests and scrutiny they have faced. An equal and even greater number of Washington Redskins fans have tried to save the name. It's likely that if they do change the name it will only be to the Braves. The original name of the franchise when it was Boston.

[Brownie19]

Sounds like one to be honest. If the intention was to disrespect a people. Naming your Baseball team after them isn't a great way to do it.

 

If anything it's empowering and makes them appear strong. The intention was never to offend. Now apparently it is.

 

There names and traditions have been around for so long. Shouldn't have to change them or made out to be racists because a collection of people don't like it.

 

I'm fine with the Redskins team name. But I can understand why people want it changed. It doesn't appear it was happen in the current owners lifetime. And even with all the protests and scrutiny they have faced. An equal and even greater number of Washington Redskins fans have tried to save the name. It's likely that if they do change the name it will only be to the Braves. The original name of the franchise when it was Boston.

 

Whoa...I wasn't talking about whether I support the team name "Indians" or not. People are s***ing on Wilner for not using the name Indians - calling him a SJW, etc...when he is likely doing it out of respect for Jerry Howarth (or he agrees with it for the same reasons Jerry does). I was just curious if Howarth is subject to the same SJW claims and general hate (as I had assumed he wasn't).

 

FWIW - I agree with your stance re: team names.

[TheHurl]

I know everyone loves to s*** all over Wilner (I actually like him to be honest), but doesn't this garner a hint of respect? Or do you guys all think Howarth is a SJW too?

 

I 100% respect it. Aboriginal rights or lack of rights is kind of a passion of mine and has been for quite a while.

[Terminator]

I get the arguments to change it but those communities have bigger issues than sports team names. Redskins and Chief Wahoo probably stand out the most and are most deserving to be changed. This is colloquial evidence but it is backed up by some studies which say that Native Americans don't care in general about these names, but my Native American friends love all the sports names and see them as a point of pride. Some of them became HUGE Chiefs fans simply because of the name.

[Brownie19]

Are you two even talking about the same guy? He was talking about Goins at ss.

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one confused AF.

[TheHurl]

If anything it's empowering and makes them appear strong. The intention was never to offend. Now apparently it is.

 

 

So empowering. One of my favourite points so many make about the change the name and not your mascot movements is that this is a new thing. Just because you didn't care it doesn't mean that it hasn't been going on for almost 50 years now. Difference is that white people like me are now in on it.

[TheHurl]

I get the arguments to change it but those communities have bigger issues than sports team names. Redskins and Chief Wahoo probably stand out the most and are most deserving to be changed. This is colloquial evidence but it is backed up by some studies which say that Native Americans don't care in general about these names, but my Native American friends love all the sports names and see them as a point of pride. Some of them became HUGE Chiefs fans simply because of the name.

 

I certainly know plenty that don't care, don't know a whole lot that see them as pride but I'm sure they are out there. For me the fascinating part has become my realization that Aboriginals (or Natives in the U.S.) have zero power. I grew up believing that they could get away with anything (no taxes, could sell illegal items, open casinos), but the truth is that they have zero political pull. If they can't get something as simple as a mascot banned or name changed...how are they supposed to believe that their real issues can be handled. When I heard it that way my view changed. How effective have I been in the movement, I'd say in my 20+ years of talking about it I've probably changed 3 or 4 minds (maybe more in my return to school but I have no idea if those kids were just trying to shut me up).

[Dick_Pole]

I don't consider what Howarth, and Wilner by extension, did to be "SJW" actions.

 

Howarth was asked personally by a man to stop using the name as a favour. He didn't do it to score Twitter points. Also this happened around 25 years ago when social justice actually meant something.

 

I side with Hurl, the logo and team name aren't meant to be empowering. Chiefs are different because there is nothing in that name or logo which look particularly demeaning.

 

Also, disregarding all this, don't we have freedom of speech? Blue Jays media personalities have said far more egregious and annoying things than the Cleveland team or whatever they want to call them. I find it a strange topic to be annoyed with. I guess it would be easier if Cleveland had a short form like the A's do. Cleveland I's...no thanks.

[Terminator]

Difference is that white people like me are now in on it.

 

No offense but not only are white people like you on it, they are pretty much the only ones on it. Studies have shown that Native Americans don't care. The most recent was done in 2016 and 9 out of 10 Native Americans said they were not offended by the Redskins team name. That's an overwhelming landslide.

 

I certainly know plenty that don't care, don't know a whole lot that see them as pride but I'm sure they are out there. For me the fascinating part has become my realization that Aboriginals (or Natives in the U.S.) have zero power. I grew up believing that they could get away with anything (no taxes, could sell illegal items, open casinos), but the truth is that they have zero political pull. If they can't get something as simple as a mascot banned or name changed...how are they supposed to believe that their real issues can be handled. When I heard it that way my view changed. How effective have I been in the movement, I'd say in my 20+ years of talking about it I've probably changed 3 or 4 minds (maybe more in my return to school but I have no idea if those kids were just trying to shut me up).

 

It's definitely a point of pride for a lot of them. Being prideful might be more common than not giving a s***. If Florida State ever changed their name the Seminole tribe would be livid. They love it and see it as a point of pride and they officially endorsed it. And Florida State isn't exactly PC about it either. They have Chief Osceola riding around on a horse and throwing spears. The Utes and Chippewas have also given express consent.

 

I agree Native Americans have no political pull whatsoever but I don't know that drumming up phony outrage over something that doesn't really matter would be considered a win. Poverty, jobs, constant land battles with the feds, violence against women, alcohol and drug abuse, poor education, poor housing, inadequate healthcare, youth suicide, and banking and financial issues are all far far more important to that community right now then some sports team names. Getting the Washington Redskins to change their name for 16 Sundays a year isn't going to provide any momentum to change those issues IMO.

[TheHurl]

No offense but not only are white people like you on it, they are pretty much the only ones on it. Studies have shown that Native Americans don't care. The most recent was done in 2016 and 9 out of 10 Native Americans said they were not offended by the Redskins team name. That's an overwhelming landslide.

 

I've been to the rally's I know that there are plenty of Natives which care. Lets not do a self identified poll with 520 participants and only 44% actually enrolled in a tribe (less than one 1 hundredths of a percent of Natives in America). As I've said before, where was the poll about how African Americans felt about Donald Sterling? The word is a slang about a group of people, it wouldn't still be around if Natives had any political power. That is something which pretty much no one could deny. We also know that for the next 4 years there is zero chance it will change.

[bendera3]

I certainly know plenty that don't care, don't know a whole lot that see them as pride but I'm sure they are out there. For me the fascinating part has become my realization that Aboriginals (or Natives in the U.S.) have zero power. I grew up believing that they could get away with anything (no taxes, could sell illegal items, open casinos), but the truth is that they have zero political pull. If they can't get something as simple as a mascot banned or name changed...how are they supposed to believe that their real issues can be handled. When I heard it that way my view changed. How effective have I been in the movement, I'd say in my 20+ years of talking about it I've probably changed 3 or 4 minds (maybe more in my return to school but I have no idea if those kids were just trying to shut me up).

 

You should consider visiting some of the reservations that are in the US plains area. A good friend of mine stayed at one for a couple weeks and it completely changed how he thought because he had to live their life. The extreme poverty that these people have to put up with is unreal. I don't remember the name of the reservation or what tribes lived there but my friend said it was the poorest place in the states.

[TheHurl]

And Florida State isn't exactly PC about it either. They have Chief Osceola riding around on a horse and throwing spears. The Utes and Chippewas have also given express consent.

 

Florida State also banned headdresses and redface on campus or at games, have helped develop the community and provide education seminars, and use a real Seminole as the mascot. A lot can be said for doing things in the right way.

[Brownie19]

I certainly know plenty that don't care, don't know a whole lot that see them as pride but I'm sure they are out there. For me the fascinating part has become my realization that Aboriginals (or Natives in the U.S.) have zero power. I grew up believing that they could get away with anything (no taxes, could sell illegal items, open casinos), but the truth is that they have zero political pull. If they can't get something as simple as a mascot banned or name changed...how are they supposed to believe that their real issues can be handled. When I heard it that way my view changed. How effective have I been in the movement, I'd say in my 20+ years of talking about it I've probably changed 3 or 4 minds (maybe more in my return to school but I have no idea if those kids were just trying to shut me up).

 

A conservative would ask why they need political pull and suggest the self repair, education and growth probably needs to start from within.

[TheHurl]

You should consider visiting some of the reservations that are in the US plains area. A good friend of mine stayed at one for a couple weeks and it completely changed how he thought because he had to live their life. The extreme poverty that these people have to put up with is unreal. I don't remember the name of the reservation or what tribes lived there but my friend said it was the poorest place in the states.

 

It is brutal here too. I've had many conversations with Mary Spencer (Olympic Boxer who has dedicated her retired life to living and developing the communities) and two of my classmates are working in Aboriginal Sport. Much has to change. Which probably means the elders dying off and a younger more aware generation coming in. It's not like there isn't attention being paid by the activists on this, very few people have dedicated their life to this movement...but if something like this draws no traction does anyone actually believe that the real issues will be dealt with either. As I said it's about political power. I'm not stupid as to the real issues.

[Terminator]

Florida State also banned headdresses and redface on campus or at games, have helped develop the community and provide education seminars, and use a real Seminole as the mascot. A lot can be said for doing things in the right way.

 

Most virtue signaling SJWs won't stop with just Chief Wahoo or the Redskins. They think Seminoles are offensive too.

[Terminator]

I've been to the rally's I know that there are plenty of Natives which care. Lets not do a self identified poll with 520 participants and only 44% actually enrolled in a tribe (less than one 1 hundredths of a percent of Natives in America). As I've said before, where was the poll about how African Americans felt about Donald Sterling? The word is a slang about a group of people, it wouldn't still be around if Natives had any political power. That is something which pretty much no one could deny. We also know that for the next 4 years there is zero chance it will change.

 

That's kind of how most polls work but I'm sure 9 out of 10 can't be accurate. I don't even think 9 out of 10 people believe the earth is round. So you're probably right, more care than the polls gives credit to. As for a rally to change the names of sports teams I'm sure you'll find Native Americans who care. Try out a pow wow, it won't even come up.

[Brownie19]

To be honest, I'm a tad skeptical of people who attend rally's...

[Bobthe4th]

More important than the Wahoo logo itself, is all the societal factors that allows it to remain in use. The logo is a very visible reminder of this. As Hurl alludes to - a caricature of a minority group with a bigger "voice" would have been changed by now.

 

The name is so closely linked with the logo, that it probably should be changed too.