Cardinals to Sign Dexter Fowler

[King]

Get that ball on the ground dammit

[King]

Must stop swinging for the fences

[Dr. Dinger]

Ok, so... back on the Edwin train?

[Ray]

Travis

Bautista

Donaldson

Morales

Tulowitzki

Pearce

Martin

Dyson/Upton

Pillar

 

I'd say thats a pretty good lineup.

 

Ok, so... back on the Edwin train?

 

I'd rather our next signing be able to play atleast some outfield. I'd rather have Jose back than Edwin at this point.

[Dr. Dinger]

Pearce can play LF and Bruce can play RF. Or trade for Cutch.

[burlingtonbandit]

Whiffing was one of our largest issues last season and, from what I had heard earlier in November, signing contact oriented players was one of the proposed solutions to that.

 

Sure, he could mash in the RC, but, personally, I would rather sign Bautista and trade for Dyson so we'd have power (Bautista) but plenty of contact and OBP (Bautista and Dyson).

 

Brandon Moss is actually a perfect example for this. He used to be a guy who didn't strike out as much but didn't hit for more than average power. Starting in 2012 he went from 45% GB rate to one barely over 30%. His ISO jumped from the .150 range to the high .270s and his Strikeout rate increased 6-8%.

 

He went from a replacement player to one of the better hitters vs RHP. Strikeouts aren't great but if you have elite power it makes up for it. Much better than having a slap hitter who "puts the ball in play".

[Drumcliff]

Just seems obvious now that Pompey will step up and make everyone forget Dextrose Folwer.

[BlueRocky]

Travis

Bautista

Donaldson

Morales

Tulowitzki

Pearce

Martin

Dyson/Upton

Pillar

 

I'd say thats a pretty good lineup.

 

Doesn't feel as strong as 2015 & 2016..

Didn't seem to really address the balance, LHH, youth, and speed issue either.

 

Red Sox and Yankees are improving year by year while most of our lineup are on the wrong side of 30.

 

Im okay with their signings so far, but I feel like the FO can do better.

 

If all they end up doing is resigning Bautista and wrap up the offseason with a backup catcher and reliever, it feels like an underwhelming offseason.

 

at minimum, one meaningful trade has to happen before spring training to bring in another impact player

[gruber92]

That's noise. In 2015 he had a wRC+ of 49 in high leverage situations (career 96)

 

46 PA sample man

 

Actually, the 2015 sample in high leverage situations is extremely small. In the larger sample in 2014, he had a 115 wRC+ in high leverage and a 130 in medium leverage. I'm just saying he's had good numbers in high - medium leverage situations in two of the last three years. I think he'd welcome a return to the AL, especially in the East. The RC would play beautifully, opposed to hitting in St.Louis and Oakland.

[THANOS]

I don't understand why you're looking at it that way. The offense was good last year. They had a lot of good hitters that strike out a lot. The offense was fine, and those hitters are maximizing their skills in the best way they can. If you can improve the offense, you do it. That could come via a 5% K guy or a 30% K guy. Is the team tangibly better off with Nori Aoki than with Brandon Moss? Not likely.

 

If the choice was Aoki or Moss, I would take Moss, but the guy had an OBP of .300 last season. In a lineup that has power coming from Donaldson, Morales, and perhaps even Tulo, I'd like to see us sign Bautista and trade for Dyson to address both power and OBP without the high chance of empty ABs.

 

Brandon Moss is actually a perfect example for this. He used to be a guy who didn't strike out as much but didn't hit for more than average power. Starting in 2012 he went from 45% GB rate to one barely over 30%. His ISO jumped from the .150 range to the high .270s and his Strikeout rate increased 6-8%.

 

He went from a replacement player to one of the better hitters vs RHP. Strikeouts aren't great but if you have elite power it makes up for it. Much better than having a slap hitter who "puts the ball in play".

 

That's a fair point. Well said.

[Grant77]

That would be last resort. The beauty of it is that Shatkins can be patient looking for a better alternative because Bautista will still be available in February.

 

Signing an elite hitter isn't a last resort, it's a priority.

[King]

Actually, the 2015 sample in high leverage situations is extremely small. In the larger sample in 2014, he had a 115 wRC+ in high leverage and a 130 in medium leverage. I'm just saying he's had good numbers in high - medium leverage situations in two of the last three years. I think he'd welcome a return to the AL, especially in the East. The RC would play beautifully, opposed to hitting in St.Louis and Oakland.

The samples are way too small for any of it. That's why you see so much variance.

[gruber92]

Signing an elite hitter isn't a last resort, it's a priority.

 

I agree, but the defensive lay out would be a train wreck. I'd have no problem with signing Bautista to a one year deal though.

 

I'd would be asking the Braves about OF Ender Inciarte. I'd offer Pillar and a decent prospect and see what happens. He would address our lead off situation, has a few years of control left and if a left handed bat. You also don't lose much defence also with him in CF. We'd get a .290/.350 /.400 type hitter with 20 SB. A definite upgrade over Pillar. The Braves may bite if the prospect is to their liking (Pentecost,Zeuch?)

[Bobthe4th]

I agree, but the defensive lay out would be a train wreck. I'd have no problem with signing Bautista to a one year deal though.

 

I'd would be asking the Braves about OF Ender Inciarte. I'd offer Pillar and a decent prospect and see what happens. He would address our lead off situation, has a few years of control left and if a left handed bat. You also don't lose much defence also with him in CF. We'd get a .290/.350 /.400 type hitter with 20 SB. A definite upgrade over Pillar. The Braves may bite if the prospect is to their liking (Pentecost,Zeuch?)

 

Yeah but if you do that your losing the only OF that is currently going to play every game, so we'd still need another one.

[burlingtonbandit]

I agree, but the defensive lay out would be a train wreck. I'd have no problem with signing Bautista to a one year deal though.

 

I'd would be asking the Braves about OF Ender Inciarte. I'd offer Pillar and a decent prospect and see what happens. He would address our lead off situation, has a few years of control left and if a left handed bat. You also don't lose much defence also with him in CF. We'd get a .290/.350 /.400 type hitter with 20 SB. A definite upgrade over Pillar. The Braves may bite if the prospect is to their liking (Pentecost,Zeuch?)

 

That seems like such a lateral move that there would be no point in making it. You'd basically be pissing off all the fans since Pillar is a huge fan favourite for the left handed version of him.

 

Rather just keep him and hopefully tap into his plus raw power.

[Ray]

Doesn't feel as strong as 2015 & 2016..

Didn't seem to really address the balance, LHH, youth, and speed issue either.

 

Red Sox and Yankees are improving year by year while most of our lineup are on the wrong side of 30.

 

Im okay with their signings so far, but I feel like the FO can do better.

 

If all they end up doing is resigning Bautista and wrap up the offseason with a backup catcher and reliever, it feels like an underwhelming offseason.

 

at minimum, one meaningful trade has to happen before spring training to bring in another impact player

 

You don't get younger through free agent signings. You get younger through prospects.

 

I think it's a more well rounded lineup. Full year of Travis hopefully. Bautista and Pillar (offensively) bounce back year hopefully. Donaldson-Tulo-Martin should be the same as they always are. Morales as DH will hopefully do some big damage at Rogers Centre, and I think Pearce is a thousand times better than Colabello, plus more versatile. If the rotation is Top 5 in the AL (I think that's a reasonable expectation), we'll contend. Maybe we'll see Ramirez and Gurriel later into the season as well.

 

We really need to shore up that bullpen though. No more taking flyers on Gavin Floyd types. We were extremely lucky that Grilli and Benoit worked out for us, otherwise we would've been screwed. Too many games unnecessarily blown last season because of our shaky bullpen situation. Give me 2-3 of Blevins, Zieglar, Dunn, Logan, Manship, Holland and Feliz and thats a good bullpen to add to Barnes, Grilli, Osuna, Dermody. We obviously have no Andrew Miller, Chapman or Jansen, but we don't need to overpay for them to contend.

 

I agree, but the defensive lay out would be a train wreck. I'd have no problem with signing Bautista to a one year deal though.

 

I'd would be asking the Braves about OF Ender Inciarte. I'd offer Pillar and a decent prospect and see what happens. He would address our lead off situation, has a few years of control left and if a left handed bat. You also don't lose much defence also with him in CF. We'd get a .290/.350 /.400 type hitter with 20 SB. A definite upgrade over Pillar. The Braves may bite if the prospect is to their liking (Pentecost,Zeuch?)

 

Pillar for Inciarte. That's literally robbing Peter to pay Paul and gets us nowhere. We'll still need an outfielder or 2.

[gruber92]

Yeah but if you do that your losing the only OF that is currently going to play every game, so we'd still need another one.

 

Inciarte would replace Pillar in CF and play every day, but you're right that we still need another outfielder. At least the lead off position would be locked up for the next 3-4 years.

[Ray]

Inciarte would replace Pillar in CF and play every day, but you're right that we still need another outfielder. At least the lead off position would be locked up for the next 3-4 years.

 

Devon Travis would like a word with you.

[gruber92]

That seems like such a lateral move that there would be no point in making it. You'd basically be pissing off all the fans since Pillar is a huge fan favourite for the left handed version of him.

 

Rather just keep him and hopefully tap into his plus raw power.

 

I'd hardly call replacing Pillar with Inciarte a lateral move.

[Bobthe4th]

You don't get younger through free agent signings. You get younger through prospects.

 

I think it's a more well rounded lineup. Full year of Travis hopefully. Bautista and Pillar (offensively) bounce back year hopefully. Donaldson-Tulo-Martin should be the same as they always are. Morales as DH will hopefully do some big damage at Rogers Centre, and I think Pearce is a thousand times better than Colabello, plus more versatile. If the rotation is Top 5 in the AL (I think that's a reasonable expectation), we'll contend. Maybe we'll see Ramirez and Gurriel later into the season as well.

 

We really need to shore up that bullpen though. No more taking flyers on Gavin Floyd types. We were extremely lucky that Grilli and Benoit worked out for us, otherwise we would've been screwed. Too many games unnecessarily blown last season because of our shaky bullpen situation. Give me 2-3 of Blevins, Zieglar, Dunn, Logan, Manship, Holland and Feliz and thats a good bullpen to add to Barnes, Grilli, Osuna, Dermody. We obviously have no Andrew Miller, Chapman or Jansen, but we don't need to overpay for them to contend.

 

Agree - if we fail to sign or trade for a decent OF, I'd be happy if we spent more on the bullpen.

 

Carrera, Upton, Pillar and one other has the potential to be OK if Upton doesn't suck this year.

 

We can also trade for a OF upgrade at the deadline if we're still in contention for the playoffs.

[gruber92]

Devon Travis would like a word with you.

 

The man made of glass still has a lot to prove. Besides, he can be just as lethal hitting sixth or seventh if he can stay healthy.

[Ray]

The man made of glass still has a lot to prove. Besides, he can be just as lethal hitting sixth or seventh if he can stay healthy.

 

He's already proven he's a 5+ win player through a whole season worth of games.

 

He is injury-prone. Between Tulo and Travis, that's a shaky infield. Gurriel and Urena can't come up fast enough.

 

Also, I don't think Braves are looking to deal Inciarte at all. Especially not for Pillar as the main piece.

[Abomination]

I'd hardly call replacing Pillar with Inciarte a lateral move.

 

Both players project for the same wRC+ next year, but Pillar projects for better defense. It might actually be a step back.

[King]

He's already proven he's a 5+ win player through a whole season worth of games.

 

He is injury-prone. Between Tulo and Travis, that's a shaky infield. Gurriel and Urena can't come up fast enough.

 

Also, I don't think Braves are looking to deal Inciarte at all. Especially not for Pillar as the main piece.

 

He's been worth 4.8 fWAR over 2 injured shortened seasons but he hasn't proven he's a true talent level 5 win player going forward.

[gruber92]

He's already proven he's a 5+ win player through a whole season worth of games.

 

He is injury-prone. Between Tulo and Travis, that's a shaky infield. Gurriel and Urena can't come up fast enough.

 

Also, I don't think Braves are looking to deal Inciarte at all. Especially not for Pillar as the main piece.

 

I meant prove to stay healthy. The Braves actually gain a bit defensively with Pillar and he is controllable. It's the prospect going back that would make the deal. You're right that the Braves are probably not interested in trading Inciarte, but if the prospect is a SRF, then they would definitely consider it. I wouldn't part with SRF though, but it would take that sort of caliber type. J.Harris?

[ChrisS]

Both players project for the same wRC+ next year, but Pillar projects for better defense. It might actually be a step back.

You trade Pillars defence for Inciartes offense. Pillar is a top OF defender while Inciarte doesnt provide top OF offense.

Also its highly likely that our corner outfielders are all going to be negative defenders so trading Pillar makes no sense.

[gruber92]

Both players project for the same wRC+ next year, but Pillar projects for better defense. It might actually be a step back.

 

It's the OBP skill set combined with a low K rate that we need injected into this line up, combined with speed and SB skills. He profiles better than Pillar does offensively while not losing hardly anything defensively. Be a LHB also helps in balancing the line up.

[burlingtonbandit]

I'd hardly call replacing Pillar with Inciarte a lateral move.

 

They both have 4 years left of control. Both project for a wRC+ of 90, with Pillar at 2.6 WAR and Inciarte at 2. Inciarte is almost 2 years younger so he has that going for him but Pillar has more offensive potential.

 

Like I said the move doesn't seem to be worth the hassle and I'd expect both sides would turn down the trade if its a 1 for 1 as teams prefer their own players.

[gruber92]

You trade Pillars defence for Inciartes offense. Pillar is a top OF defender while Inciarte doesnt provide top OF offense.

Also its highly likely that our corner outfielders are all going to be negative defenders so trading Pillar makes no sense.

 

Inciarte is a plus defender in CF, not that far off from Pillar.

[ChrisS]

I might get flamed for this but Fowler has signed elsewhere and our options in the OF are dwindling. I feel the FO shouldnt give up any quality prospects and they should leave our starting rotation alone. We have around $25mill left to spend. Ben Revere had a down year but is only 28 years old. I think signing him for cheap as 1 OF piece and making him earn his spot on the roster might be worthwhile.

He provides better def, speed and arm than either Saunders or Bautista did this past season. If he can leadoff and get on at a .330 clip he could provide great value.

Signing Bautista at the right price/term and having him split time in RF/1B/DH would leave money left over for pen arms and a backup catcher.

At this point I would try and move Smoak for anything.