DFA Thole

[Rusty_Savage]

1- Trade Dickey & Thole for bullpen help.

2- Make Floyd a starter

3- Pick up a backup C

 

Yeah cause Floyds 92 innings over the past three years screams starting pitcher......

[Praxis]

Biagini wasn't in trouble. A flare double. A dribbler that would have ended the inning squirts by him. That was a great pitch inside. He pitched around MM (smart) and useless Thole ended it.

 

I appreciate your point, but bases loaded 1 out with Adam Jones at the plate is not in trouble?

[Brownie19]

Why is Colabello still a Blue Jay? Why was Thole not benched after Dickey finished pitching or at least when the game was clearly coming down to the wire? Why wasn't Osuna bought in when Biagini was obviously in trouble?

 

Answers on a postcard/twitter to #Gibbonsisgreat.

 

It's a 162 game season man. You can't have Cecil and Osuna pitch in every game and you certainly can't play Martin in every game. Dickey's starts are Martin's day off - deal with it. I know this might scare you, but Thole might have to start some games when Dickey isn't pitching too (gaspsss). Martin is old and this team is set up to go deep into the playoffs - you can't just have him sit out 34 Dickey starts.

[Praxis]

It's a 162 game season man. You can't have Cecil and Osuna pitch in every game and you certainly can't play Martin in every game. Dickey's starts are Martin's day off - deal with it. I know this might scare you, but Thole might have to start some games when Dickey isn't pitching too (gaspsss). Martin is old and this team is set up to go deep into the playoffs - you can't just have him sit out 34 Dickey starts.

 

I hear you, but Martin is being paid $75m over the next 4 years and he needs to be ready whenever. Thole just should not be the backup catcher on a team with Championship aspirations. Period.

[Brownie19]

I appreciate your point, but bases loaded 1 out with Adam Jones at the plate is not in trouble?

 

There were 2 out. Pay attention. And Adam Jones is s*** at the plate overall (wRC+ of 109 last year) and is stone cold to start this year. I had full confident that Joe was going to get him out before Thole forgot how to catch.

[Brownie19]

I hear you, but Martin is being paid $75m over the next 4 years and he needs to be ready whenever. Thole just should not be the backup catcher on a team with Championship aspirations.

 

Martin's pay cheque isn't going to magically going to turn him into Iron Man. It's utterly stupid to expect him to come into every close game once Dickey is removed from the game.

[Praxis]

There were 2 out. Pay attention. And Adam Jones is s*** at the plate overall (wRC+ of 109 last year) and is stone cold to start this year. I had full confident that Joe was going to get him out before Thole forgot how to catch.

 

You're right, 2 out sorry. Still, with the game on the line bases loaded and Jones up there is a problem. And you can't write Jones off like that, this is not a video game and he is a proven major leaguer.

 

Your sentence about Martin is specious and nonsensical. I would not expect Martin to come in every close game, but against a close division rival with a chance to win the series? Even in April you have to consider it, no?

[Rusty_Savage]

I hear you, but Martin is being paid $75m over the next 4 years and he needs to be ready whenever. Thole just should not be the backup catcher on a team with Championship aspirations. Period.

 

That's a bad argument. They didn't sign him to that deal to catch 162 games. Buster Posey only caught 106 games last year. I agree that Thole shouldn't be on this team but wanting Martin to be ready to go all the time is asking for trouble.

[Praxis]

That's a bad argument. They didn't sign him to that deal to catch 162 games. Buster Posey only caught 106 games last year. I agree that Thole shouldn't be on this team but wanting Martin to be ready to go all the time is asking for trouble.

 

Refer to above answer. "Every game" is a nonsense statement.

[Brownie19]

You're right, 2 out sorry. Still, with the game on the line bases loaded and Jones up there is a problem. And you can't write Jones off like that, this is not a video game.

 

Jones has been declining as a hitter for 4 straight years now. That's reality and probably doesn't show up in your video game. Cecil and Osuna aren't going to pitch in 100+ games - this isn't a video game. Joe was pitching fine, got a little unlucky and Thole can't catch. Get over it and stop blaming everyone in sight.

[Rusty_Savage]

Refer to above answer. "Every game" is a nonsense statement.

 

What if Martin gets hurt? Who catches the rest of the game? It's nonsense to suggest brining in another catcher in the 7th inning

[Jimcanuck]

What if Martin gets hurt? Who catches the rest of the game? It's nonsense to suggest brining in another catcher in the 7th inning

 

The risk is low..... if men on in the 7th, Dickey done for the night, and a tie game, you bring in Martin to the plate over Thole

[Angrioter]

The risk is low..... if men on in the 7th, Dickey done for the night, and a tie game, you bring in Martin to the plate over Thole

Nah. Martin is not a robot. If Thole is in the MLB team he should play.

[Jimcanuck]

Nah. Martin is not a robot. If Thole is in the MLB team he should play.

 

Of course, but when the game is on the line, and against a divisional rival, you make the move to better your chances to win the game

 

This scenario is only going to happen a couple of Dickey starts in a year

Edited April 21, 2016 by Jimcanuck

[Praxis]

Jones has been declining as a hitter for 4 straight years now. That's reality

 

No. Fangraphs:

 

2012 WAR: 4.3

2013 WAR: 4.2

2014 WAR: 5.5

2015 WAR: 3.6

 

Projected 2016 WAR: 3.0

 

A year at most (2015) and even now he projects as a 26 HR, 80 RBI guy who can hit very effectively in the Major's.

[ValiantJaysFan]

What if Martin gets hurt? Who catches the rest of the game? It's nonsense to suggest brining in another catcher in the 7th inning

 

Donaldson used to be a catcher so probably him.

[Rusty_Savage]

Donaldson used to be a catcher so probably him.

 

That's exactly where I don't want Josh Donaldson, even for a few innings

[Captain Adama]

No. Fangraphs:

 

2012 WAR: 4.3

2013 WAR: 4.2

2014 WAR: 5.5

2015 WAR: 3.6

 

Projected 2016 WAR: 3.0

 

A year at most (2015) and even now he projects as a 26 HR, 80 RBI guy who can hit very effectively in the Major's.

 

No, this post is misleading. Brownie said his hitting skills have been in decline, which is true. His offensive ability has been in a decline. His defensive metrics has held his WAR afloat. He's on the wrong side of the bell curve, but he's still a potent hitter.

[Brownie19]

No. Fangraphs:

 

2012 WAR: 4.3

2013 WAR: 4.2

2014 WAR: 5.5

2015 WAR: 3.6

 

Projected 2016 WAR: 3.0

 

A year at most (2015) and even now he projects as a 26 HR, 80 RBI guy who can hit very effectively in the Major's.

 

wRC+

 

2012 - 127

2013 - 119

2014 - 116

2015 - 109

 

His WAR spiked in 2015 due to statistical improvements in his defense.

 

Tony Batista hit 32 hrs with 110 rbis in 2004 and he was an effit turrrrible hitter. Unless I fell into my hot tube time machine last night it's not 2001 - we don't (or shouldn't) judge players primarily based on HRs & RBIs.

[Terminator]

The risk is low..... if men on in the 7th, Dickey done for the night, and a tie game, you bring in Martin to the plate over Thole

 

Martin needs days off anyway. Just give him the full game off/or close to it on days Dickey pitches.

 

The better idea would be to DFA Thole and call up whatever AAA catcher we have.

[Brownie19]

Martin needs days off anyway. Just give him the full game off/or close to it on days Dickey pitches.

 

The better idea would be to DFA Thole and call up whatever AAA catcher we have.

 

I highly doubt it matter who's catching. The same people will argue that Martin should be brought into any close game simply because he's better. They'll ignore he's a 33 years old who we can only expect to catch 105 games +/- this season if we want him fresh/effective for a playoff run.

[gbill2004]

What if Martin gets hurt? Who catches the rest of the game? It's nonsense to suggest brining in another catcher in the 7th inning

 

Barry Davis can step in at catcher in a pinch.

[Terminator]

I highly doubt it matter who's catching. The same people will argue that Martin should be brought into any close game simply because he's better. They'll ignore he's a 33 years old who we can only expect to catch 105 games +/- this season if we want him fresh/effective for a playoff run.

 

Of all the things Gibby does giving Martin full days off is toward the bottom of my criticisms.

[Spanky__99]

Barry Davis can step in at catcher in a pinch.

 

STFU, please.

[gbill2004]

STFU, please.

I'm making the point that Barry is a better catcher than Thole.

[Spanky__99]

I'm making the point that Barry is a better catcher than Thole.

 

K..........

[flafson]

Martin needs days off anyway. Just give him the full game off/or close to it on days Dickey pitches.

 

The better idea would be to DFA Thole and call up whatever AAA catcher we have.

 

You mean the same Jimenez that hit Hutch on the head when he was trying to throw to 2B?

Pretty sure that injuring our pitchers defeats the purpose of replacing Thole.

[Dick_Pole]

f***...ok guys I get the argument that you want a good defensive catcher in close games. But not Martin nor any other catcher is expected to play anywhere close to a 162 game schedule. Martin playing even just 120 games will have more touches on the ball and more impact on defense than Pillar playing all 162. He is earning is salary.

 

The focus here should be 100% on Thole's inability to catch that f***ing ball properly and how that should be an end to his roster spot on the MLB Jays club. Bury him in Buffalo and find someone else with a pulse.

[Dick_Pole]

You mean the same Jimenez that hit Hutch on the head when he was trying to throw to 2B?

Pretty sure that injuring our pitchers defeats the purpose of replacing Thole.

 

Is this seriously going to be a meme forever on this board?

 

"You mean the same Pillar, that whiny bitch who had an outburst before he was sent back down to the minors in 2013?"

[KingKat]

Current options at AAA are Jimenez and Tony Sanchez. Jimenez has a Thole level bat minus the experience catching Dickey so there's not much appeal there. Sanchez is probably a better hitter but he looked horrible defensively in spring training. Montero was a terrible catcher who could not stick there. I don't really see a viable plan B.