ST GDT: Rays @ Jays (March 13, 1:05 ET)

[Boxcar]

He's in the MLB and is here to stay, regardless of the Travis situation. You and the rest of the f***tards who were absolutely sure he'd be selling hot dogs at this point can suck s***.

 

"His bat still suxxxxxxxxx"

 

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL.. What do you do for a living again?

 

GFY about some other $50. I lost the Dickey bet with you and paid you straight up. I don't know WTF you're harping about.

 

Funny how you're not even correct on Goins, wrong on so many other things, and still have the nerve to call other people f***tards.

[JaysFan75]

Then point to anything in Sanchez's minor or major league track record that actually suggests he is capable of taking the next step.

 

Analytics or not, Sanchez has yet to harness his tools. Expecting a sudden leap based on nothing but a narrative of "well he's young so he should improve, right?" that another poster suggested doesnt make any sense.

 

That's not analytics or even traditional thinking, it's just blind hope.

 

He still has the same running fastball he can't really command, a curve that isn't effective enough and a changeup that's basically useless because of his poor fastball command. That lack of effectiveness from his secondary pitches is a large reason why he doesnt miss bats. He's working on a cutter, which would help him alot if it's becomes reliable to actually have a pitch that moves to his glove side and that he can keep inside to lefties, but fastball command is still the big problem.

 

Sanchez has a tool that very few pitchers have; a high nineties fastball with extreme movement. The reason that people believed that he could improve is because he has the tools to do so. Pitchers with elite tools and mediocre numbers have more potential than pitchers with mediocre tools and mediocre numbers.

 

There has been a lot of backpedaling in this thread, but the truth is that guys were saying that Sanchez was worthless purely based on his numbers in the minors, and arrogantly ridiculing anyone who said otherwise. You can call it trolling if that helps you maintain your arrogance, but we all know the truth.

[Spanky99]

He's in the MLB and is here to stay, regardless of the Travis situation. You and the rest of the f***tards who were absolutely sure he'd be selling hot dogs at this point can suck s***.

 

"His bat still suxxxxxxxxx"

 

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL.. What do you do for a living again?

 

GFY about some other $50. I lost the Dickey bet with you and paid you straight up. I don't know WTF you're harping about.

 

Show me where I've ever said any of this ya stunned f***ing greaseball? I've said he's a 25 man, and will have a decent career because of his leather. And yes, his bat suxxxxxxx. As for the latter, I don't care. You're still the ******* you'll always represent.

 

P.S. What do you do for a living again??? f***ing ManChild.

[burlingtonbandit]

You're right man. 9 innings is enough.

 

lol never did I say 9 innings was a meaningful sample size...

[Jimcanuck]

You're right man. 9 innings is enough.

 

If Sanchez had given up 4 HR, 8 runs, 6 walks over those 9 innings, you'd say nothing cuz SSS and all that?

 

Somehow I doubt it.

[Spanky99]

Sanchez has a tool that very few pitchers have; a high nineties fastball with extreme movement. The reason that people believed that he could improve is because he has the tools to do so. Pitchers with elite tools and mediocre numbers have more potential than pitchers with mediocre tools and mediocre numbers.

 

There has been a lot of backpedaling in this thread, but the truth is that guys were saying that Sanchez was worthless purely based on his numbers in the minors, and arrogantly ridiculing anyone who said otherwise. You can call it trolling if that helps you maintain your arrogance, but we all know the truth.

 

Who's you guys, be specific... why do people who defend Sanchez or Goins, etc, always use a broad brush. It's so lazy.

[JaysFan75]

Who's you guys, be specific... why do people who defend Sanchez or Goins, etc, always use a broad brush. It's so lazy.

 

There's no broad brush. They know who they are.

[Spanky99]

There's no broad brush. They know who they are.

 

So say they know who they are, then?

[Boxcar]

If Sanchez had given up 4 HR, 8 runs, 6 walks over those 9 innings, you'd say nothing cuz SSS and all that?

 

Somehow I doubt it.

 

Yes, having consistent views must be a difficult concept for you to understand.

[Boxcar]

There's no broad brush. They know who they are.

 

I highly suspect that they dont

[Boxcar]

lol never did I say 9 innings was a meaningful sample size...

 

Right, my bad. You went for even more nebulous and irrelevant things that you don't really know are even true, like how hard Sanchez worked in the off season. Because other players don't work hard in the off season, or something.

[Jimcanuck]

Yes, having consistent views must be a difficult concept for you to understand.

 

I apply the higher level concept of adjusting my views based on the evidence.

 

Don't be so rigid.

[Boxcar]

I apply the higher level concept of adjusting my views based on the evidence.

 

Don't be so rigid.

 

It's been made pretty clear to me that you don't adjust s*** because you are never willing to admit when you're wrong. You should just stick to pavement.

[JaysFan75]

I highly suspect that they dont

 

You might be right. There should have been a vote last year:

 

1. Sanchez is a guaranteed Ace.

2. Sanchez has potential, but needs to improve his control, and add another pitch. Has a chance to be a good MLB starter.

3. Sanchez has proven that he will never be a viable major league ballplayer (Edit: barring a miracle).

[Jimcanuck]

You might be right. There should have been a vote last year:

 

1. Sanchez is a guaranteed Ace.

2. Sanchez has potential, but needs to improve his control, and add another pitch. Has a chance to be a good MLB starter.

3. Sanchez has proven that he will never be a viable major league ballplayer (Edit: barring a miracle).

 

is it too late for a vote

[Boxcar]

You might be right. There should have been a vote last year:

 

1. Sanchez is a guaranteed Ace.

2. Sanchez has potential, but needs to improve his control, and add another pitch. Has a chance to be a good MLB starter.

3. Sanchez has proven that he will never be a viable major league ballplayer (Edit: barring a miracle).

 

Anyone who doesn't vote #2 is an idiot. I don't know who you're referring to as "the usual suspects" but I suspect it's the guys that are familiar with stats past ERA and wins. All of them would take #2.

[Grant77]

You might be right. There should have been a vote last year:

 

1. Sanchez is a guaranteed Ace.

2. Sanchez has potential, but needs to improve his control, and add another pitch. Has a chance to be a good MLB starter.

3. Sanchez has proven that he will never be a viable major league ballplayer (Edit: barring a miracle).

 

How is 3 even an option? That hasn't been true since shortly after his MLB debut.

[gruber92]

Funny how you're not even correct on Goins, wrong on so many other things, and still have the nerve to call other people f***tards.

 

Lol.. Here you are ripping people for not admitting when they're wrong, but you were leading the charge that Goins would in no way be sniffing the pine of an MLB clubhouse beyond 2014. Do you think you were wrong about Goins in retrospect?

[gruber92]

Show me where I've ever said any of this ya stunned f***ing greaseball? I've said he's a 25 man, and will have a decent career because of his leather. And yes, his bat suxxxxxxx. As for the latter, I don't care. You're still the ******* you'll always represent.

 

P.S. What do you do for a living again??? f***ing ManChild.

Really? You get aggressively involved in conversations that you're not involved in and I'm the *******? "Goins still suxxx and I'll let the other $50 slide". Who the f*** do you think you're talking too? Trying to pimp yourself with false s*** in an effort to impress the kids on this board? You're a f***ing loser, simple as that.

 

Put you're money where your fat mouth is. If Goins' bat still suxxx, then he will no doubt OPS under 650. $50 says his OPS is over that this year. Minimum 150 Pa's in case of injury. You in?

[ClevelandBrownsFan2]

BlueJaysMessageBoards......you know Opening Day is close when the wagering starts.

[Boxcar]

Lol.. Here you are ripping people for not admitting when they're wrong, but you were leading the charge that Goins would in no way be sniffing the pine of an MLB clubhouse beyond 2014. Do you think you were wrong about Goins in retrospect?

 

Yeah and I've said that before. But, so like people of your limited thought capacity, you probably ignored it because you can't even comprehend the act of admitting being wrong.

 

Exactly. I thought Goins was nothing, and he's exceeded that far more than I could've imagined. I thought him becoming a good bench option was like a 90th percentile outcome.

[Cyborg]

Goins drastically improved his walk rate out of nowhere in the middle of last season. He had a talent change that I hope holds up. It is rare that talent changes occur past 25, but it did.

[gruber92]

Yeah and I've said that before. But, so like people of your limited thought capacity, you probably ignored it because you can't even comprehend the act of admitting being wrong.

 

Sorry if you did. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate all you punk ball whackers.

[Stangstag]

Sorry if you did. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate all you punk ball whackers.

 

Lovely. If you hate this place so much then don't post?

[gruber92]

Lovely. If you hate this place so much then don't post?

 

Seriously? You got nothing to say regarding Boxcar's lovely posts. Read back and tell me who initiated this whole thing. People can't just amusingly opinionate on this board without them being told how dumb and irrelevant their posts or opinions are. Even if, (and in a lot of cases is) true, why be such a douchbag? Check the Sanchez poll.

[gruber92]

Lovely. If you hate this place so much then don't post?

 

"2:58 AM#5

 

Boxcar*

 

 

 

Should have been the option to pick "this poll is stupid and pointless" because it is. Really, it's a pea brained competition for a bunch of idiots to take a random guess at something they have no way of determining for certain so that later people who "got it right" can say "hur hur u pict da rong 1 u dum!!!1!"

 

So I hope that Sanchez becomes a #2 so that the Jays get better and you can receive the validation you obviously so sorely crave.''

 

This my friend is something that I would never do or say to someone on here unprovoked.

[Boxcar]

"2:58 AM#5

 

Boxcar*

 

 

 

Should have been the option to pick "this poll is stupid and pointless" because it is. Really, it's a pea brained competition for a bunch of idiots to take a random guess at something they have no way of determining for certain so that later people who "got it right" can say "hur hur u pict da rong 1 u dum!!!1!"

 

So I hope that Sanchez becomes a #2 so that the Jays get better and you can receive the validation you obviously so sorely crave.''

 

This my friend is something that I would never do or say to someone on here unprovoked.

 

You're a better man than I, obviously.

[Sammy225]

Here is what i think everyone is saying in regards to criticism to Sanchez..... He has a good fastball which does over match hitters at times, he can be a good starter if he does the following......

 

Reign in his control, that was a major problem last year he walk over 4/9ip which is terrible and people need/should realize this so yes he needs to get his control issues under control.

 

Develop his curve is next and develop a 3rd pitch. IF he does not have another 2 solid pitches in his repertoire he his not going to last long in ball games. Last year he threw the Fastball over 80% of the time which is fine when he is in the pen but as a starter you have to rely on other pitches or your not going to make it out of the 5th or 6th that often because hitters in this league will just zero in on the fastball and leave the off speed stuff which he can't throw for strikes with regularity.

 

Nobody is saying he can't be good. They are saying that he has areas that need to be improved on before he can bee good. Its easy to look at spring stats and say he is good when at this time of the year pitchers are generally ahead of hitters in terms of being ready for the season.

[Olerud363]

I apply the higher level concept of adjusting my views based on the evidence.

 

Don't be so rigid.

 

There are rigorous statistical methods that can be used to determine when your views should be adjusted. I'll let someone else give details. Any long time baseball fan, should understand the following, even if they have zero background in statistics.

 

10 innings -> meaningless

500 innings -> very meaningful

 

There exists an in between point where the numbers start to become become meaningful... I would guess it is around 70-100 innings.

 

June 1st - Sanchez has 70 innings under his belt as a starter -- at that point I think we can all consider adjusting our views based on evidence. If someone wants to disagree, at that point they would have to pull out the p-values or whatever.

[Olerud363]

Anyway I think this is the way it is:

 

10 innings -> you are an idiot if you make conclusions off this -- you deserve the wrath of the hive. Short, rude, condescending replies.

 

100 innings -> at this point the discussion because interesting -- is it real?? or not?? you do not deserve to be blasted into oblivion for thinking 100 innings is a real change, the hive may disagree but they have to explain politely and in detail. The hive can longer give their one sentence snappy answers.

 

500 innings -> Of course it's real