Jays trying to trade for Jay Bruce

[BTS]

Thank you for not taking pot shots while presenting a rational argument, unlike most others here.

 

Yes, I believe it is a team option. But what I'm saying is, if they can afford to pick up that option, then why not use the money and give Bautista his contract? And why not give Pompey a chance? He hit well in AAA and was a baserunning god, why wouldn't we want to develop that? I just think our assets or money or whatever it's costing us to get this guy is better spent elsewhere.

 

There will be 500+ PA for Pompey even if he starts the season as the 4th OF.

[Stangstag]

Thank you for not taking pot shots while presenting a rational argument, unlike most others here.

 

Yes, I believe it is a team option. But what I'm saying is, if they can afford to pick up that option, then why not use the money and give Bautista his contract? And why not give Pompey a chance? He hit well in AAA and was a baserunning god, why wouldn't we want to develop that? I just think our assets or money or whatever it's costing us to get this guy is better spent elsewhere.

 

 

That's a fair argument

[L54]

Thank you for not taking pot shots while presenting a rational argument, unlike most others here.

 

Yes, I believe it is a team option. But what I'm saying is, if they can afford to pick up that option, then why not use the money and give Bautista his contract? And why not give Pompey a chance? He hit well in AAA and was a baserunning god, why wouldn't we want to develop that? I just think our assets or money or whatever it's costing us to get this guy is better spent elsewhere.

 

They are obviously interested in hedging against Saunders knee and if Bruce can be brought in for roughly the same dollars he's a comparable player with some upside. Pompey will get his at bats even if he starts as the 4th OF so I'm confused why you think acquiring Bruce will bury him on the depth chart.

 

Also, 1M buyout. Nobody is saying Bruce has to stay in 2017.

[ValiantJaysFan]

That's a fair argument

 

That's what I've been saying in this entire thread, but according to you I don't have half a brain.

[Angrioter]

And if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle.

 

We're not talking about your sexual preferences, but Bruce.

 

I dont care if your like penes over cucas.

[ValiantJaysFan]

They are obviously interested in hedging against Saunders knee and if Bruce can be brought in for roughly the same dollars he's a comparable player with some upside. Pompey will get his at bats even if he starts as the 4th OF so I'm confused why you think acquiring Bruce will bury him on the depth chart.

 

Also, 1M buyout. Nobody is saying Bruce has to stay in 2017.

 

$1M buyout, that's $1M that could be spent on something else.

 

That's my point, thanks.

[intentional wok]

Thank you for not taking pot shots while presenting a rational argument, unlike most others here.

 

Yes, I believe it is a team option. But what I'm saying is, if they can afford to pick up that option, then why not use the money and give Bautista his contract? And why not give Pompey a chance? He hit well in AAA and was a baserunning god, why wouldn't we want to develop that?

 

Bautista's annual salary will probably be at least 50% higher than Bruce's option, not to mention that Bautista is 36 years old and is (probably) looking for a 4+ year commitment. I don't think the FO is looking at Bruce's option in a "we should pick this up" sort of way. The option is good because it allows the team to retain him should he show some resurgence. If not, no biggy. Move on. It's entirely possible they don't intend to pick up the option either way, too. I think you're assuming too much in favour of this option.

 

As for Pompey developing, I don't think he's any likelier to provide good value than Bruce is to have a half-decent year in 2016. Maybe I'm being optimistic with Bruce, but if 2016 is the last year of the elite lineup Blue Jays I'd prefer to take the gamble on Bruce hitting 30 home runs and getting on at a .320 clip than Pompey learning how to hit and stealing bases.

 

I just think our assets or money or whatever it's costing us to get this guy is better spent elsewhere.

 

But, again, you don't know what the exchange was or will be. It's possible most of gets offset, which means there isn't extra money to spend and that the FO found a creative way to address an injury-and-performance risk in LF by simply turning it into a performance risk.

[Governator]

Thank you for not taking pot shots while presenting a rational argument, unlike most others here.

 

Yes, I believe it is a team option. But what I'm saying is, if they can afford to pick up that option, then why not use the money and give Bautista his contract? And why not give Pompey a chance? He hit well in AAA and was a baserunning god, why wouldn't we want to develop that? I just think our assets or money or whatever it's costing us to get this guy is better spent elsewhere.

 

 

Please explain how a $13M 1 year option compares to signing a player @ $20-$25m/yr long term? Also, they can re-sign Bruce to his actual value after the season if they wanted to by not picking up the option... especially if Reds cover his cost for this season they aren't losing anything except a body (or apparently two). All that's happening is that they are taking out a player in Saunders who is the team's largest wildcard and inserting someone who can actually play on the field instead of being forced to play Carerra as the team's 4th outfielder. This might not cost any more than what they've already committed to.

[L54]

$1M buyout, that's $1M that could be spent on something else.

 

That's my point, thanks.

 

Great point. That buys you sweet f*** all in FA.

 

A healthy LF in Bruce who is some resemblance of his former self could be the difference between playoffs or not. That's worth a lot more than 1M.

 

Thanks.

[ValiantJaysFan]

Bautista's annual salary will probably be at least 50% higher than Bruce's option, not to mention that Bautista is 36 years old and is (probably) looking for a 4+ year commitment. I don't think the FO is looking at Bruce's option in a "we should pick this up" sort of way. The option is good because it allows the team to retain him should he show some resurgence. If not, no biggy. Move on. It's entirely possible they don't intend to pick up the option either way, too. I think you're assuming too much in favour of this option.

 

Bautista right now = $13 million I think right? He's likely asking for $25m over 4 or 5 years. Or at least that's the assumption in the media. If true, $13 million + Bruce's $13 million (or $17 million, doesn't really matter for the sake of this argument) = $26 million = enough money to sign Bautista.

 

I guess I can see your point about it being a one year risk, but if a prospect is going back the other way, even a B or C level prospect, I think it's too much because that same prospect could be flipped for something else, maybe as part of a package for a reliever down the stretch.

[Governator]

Bautista right now = $13 million I think right? He's likely asking for $25m over 4 or 5 years. Or at least that's the assumption in the media. If true, $13 million + Bruce's $13 million (or $17 million, doesn't really matter for the sake of this argument) = $26 million = enough money to sign Bautista.

 

I guess I can see your point about it being a one year risk, but if a prospect is going back the other way, even a B or C level prospect, I think it's too much because that same prospect could be flipped for something else, maybe as part of a package for a reliever down the stretch.

 

The Jays won't be paying Bruce $13M...

[ValiantJaysFan]

Great point. That buys you sweet f*** all in FA.

 

A healthy LF in Bruce who is some resemblance of his former self could be the difference between playoffs or not. That's worth a lot more than 1M.

 

Thanks.

 

$1 million in addition to whatever else we have can certainly make a difference and no one mentioned free agents. Thanks.

 

A healthy Roy Halladay who somewhat resembles his former self would be worth more than $1M too.

[ValiantJaysFan]

The Jays won't be paying Bruce $13M...

 

If they pick up his option they would. If not it's a $1M buyout.

[L54]

If you truly need a reliever down the stretch not having Max Pentecost in the system isn't going to be the difference between getting one and not getting one.

[RealAccountant]

Has it been confirmed that the prospect is Pentacost? Weren't the Jays very high on him

[ValiantJaysFan]

If you truly need a reliever down the stretch not having Max Pentecost in the system isn't going to be the difference between getting one and not getting one.

 

No, you're right. But instead of Max Pentecost, now it has to be someone else.

[L54]

Has it been confirmed that the prospect is Pentacost? Weren't the Jays very high on him

 

Just using him as an example.

[L54]

No, you're right. But instead of Max Pentecost, now it has to be someone else.

 

Sherlock Holmes, everybody.

[BTS]

So not only are we complaining (without details) about a trade that didn't happen, we're complaining about hypothetically picking up the 2017 team option for the player that was never actually acquired?

 

Time to nuke this forum from space.

[ValiantJaysFan]

Sherlock Holmes, everybody.

 

You're not very quick on the uptake, huh?

 

Suddenly we're dipping into our farm system for Jay f***ing Bruce, and losing a trade chip for something we ACTUALLY NEED down the stretch, forcing us to dip even further into our already weak farm system.

[Sammy225]

So not only are we complaining (without details) about a trade that didn't happen, we're complaining about hypothetically picking up the 2017 team option for the player that was never actually acquired?

 

Time to nuke this forum from space.

 

The whole forum????? I am not going make to MLBs board!

[ValiantJaysFan]

By the way, most of the analysts agree with me.

 

The latest is Stephen Brunt: "I'm not sure I would give up ANYTHING for the difference between Jay Bruce and Michael Saunders."

[BTS]

By the way, most of the analysts agree with me.

 

The latest is Stephen Brunt: "I'm not sure I would give up ANYTHING for the difference between Jay Bruce and Michael Saunders."

 

Mods

[Sammy225]

Mods

 

You should pick this guy up to be a co-gm your team would be better

[BTS]

You should pick this guy up to be a co-gm your team would be better

 

Put your money where your mouth is and drop $50 with me and Spanky on 2nd place in the Monte Cristo.

[intentional wok]

Bautista right now = $13 million I think right? He's likely asking for $25m over 4 or 5 years. Or at least that's the assumption in the media. If true, $13 million + Bruce's $13 million (or $17 million, doesn't really matter for the sake of this argument) = $26 million = enough money to sign Bautista.

 

I guess I can see your point about it being a one year risk, but if a prospect is going back the other way, even a B or C level prospect, I think it's too much because that same prospect could be flipped for something else, maybe as part of a package for a reliever down the stretch.

 

It's not a simple case of $26M for Bautista. It's the case of $26 per year for the next four years of a 37-40 year old Bautista. This is a significant gamble. Moreover, the season hasn't started yet. If Bautista struggles early, that could bring down his asking price -- or something. My point is, Bautista is not nearly the constant you might think he is. No player is.

 

As for using that prospect for a reliever: I still don't think the RP return for whatever C-level prospect is worth passing up Bruce, tarnished as he is. A full year of Bruce is still probably more valuable than the 20 innings of whatever middle reliever you believe the Blue Jays will get at the deadline.

 

And even though it hasn't been said yet, if Bruce should collapse spectacularly or get hurt then the team still has Pompey. This is functionally the same if/when Pompey should need to fill in for Saunders.

 

Again, if the cost is offset and becomes negligible, this isn't a bad deal. If details come out that obviously skew this away from the Jays' favour then you'll see a lot of people disagreeing with you start agreeing with you. Until then, the information about this deal seems to suggest a reasonable risk and trade off. You're jumping to too many conclusions with your talk of picking up options, just handing Bautista a huge contract, and assuming Pompey will flourish if he gets the chance to learn at the major league level.

[Sammy225]

Put your money where your mouth is and drop $50 with me and Spanky on 2nd place in the Monte Cristo.

 

Lol is this involving the rest of the division lol?

[akshpal]

Cant wait for this to go through

[gbill2004]

Cant wait for this to go through

 

Deal is dead broski.

[ValiantJaysFan]

It's not a simple case of $26M for Bautista. It's the case of $26 per year for the next four years of a 37-40 year old Bautista. This is a significant gamble. Moreover, the season hasn't started yet. If Bautista struggles early, that could bring down his asking price -- or something. My point is, Bautista is not nearly the constant you might think he is. No player is.

 

As for using that prospect for a reliever: I still don't think the RP return for whatever C-level prospect is worth passing up Bruce, tarnished as he is. A full year of Bruce is still probably more valuable than the 20 innings of whatever middle reliever you believe the Blue Jays will get at the deadline.

 

And even though it hasn't been said yet, if Bruce should collapse spectacularly or get hurt then the team still has Pompey. This is functionally the same if/when Pompey should need to fill in for Saunders.

 

Again, if the cost is offset and becomes negligible, this isn't a bad deal. If details come out that obviously skew this away from the Jays' favour then you'll see a lot of people disagreeing with you start agreeing with you. Until then, the information about this deal seems to suggest a reasonable risk and trade off.

 

Fair enough, I guess we will find out when the details come in.

 

Gonna have to agree to disagree, but I appreciate your candor.