Prediction Thread - Jose and Edwin's next deals - How much, how long

[Praxis]

The stupidity of #2 makes me want to rage-quit the forum. He wasn't short-changed, this is just how business works.

 

I can't tell if you're being serious or not?

 

Argue with the following baseball analysts who dislike the move as well please:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/ken-rosenthal-blue-jays-josh-donaldson-arbitration-risk-damaging-relation-long-term-450k-011816

 

"With apologies to Jim Croce, you don’t tug on Superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind and you don’t go to arbitration with an MVP."

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25451895/blue-jays-go-to-arbitration-with-mvp-josh-donaldson-over-450000

 

"It would be so unnecessary and ill-advised for the Jays to go through the exercise in order to save less than 4 percent of the contract."

 

http://www.hngn.com/articles/170650/20160118/mlb-news-toronto-blue-jays-josh-donaldson-heading-to-arbitration-over-450k.htm

 

And on and on.

[Spanky99]

Rogers is losing hundreds of millions on their NHL contracts. With no Canadian team.in the playoffs you can bet payroll cuts are coming....

 

Like f***.

[Spanky99]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not?

 

Argue with the following baseball analysts who dislike the move as well please:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/ken-rosenthal-blue-jays-josh-donaldson-arbitration-risk-damaging-relation-long-term-450k-011816

 

"With apologies to Jim Croce, you don’t tug on Superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind and you don’t go to arbitration with an MVP."

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25451895/blue-jays-go-to-arbitration-with-mvp-josh-donaldson-over-450000

 

"It would be so unnecessary and ill-advised for the Jays to go through the exercise in order to save less than 4 percent of the contract."

 

http://www.hngn.com/articles/170650/20160118/mlb-news-toronto-blue-jays-josh-donaldson-heading-to-arbitration-over-450k.htm

 

And on and on.

 

Click bait, they both look at it as the same, business.

[Boxcar]

Lmfao that last article especially was f***ing stupid. Couldn't have read more like some biased random casual having a hissy fit. Retard was probably all on board the "fire AA" train before June, too.

[Praxis]

Click bait, they both look at it as the same, business.

 

Which was exactly the criticism of the poster who said that Donaldson wasn't short changed.

 

He wasn't short-changed, this is just how business works.

 

See?

 

Lmfao that last article especially was f***ing stupid. Couldn't have read more like some biased random casual having a hissy fit. Retard was probably all on board the "fire AA" train before June, too.

 

Ah yes, the classic bait and switch tactic perfected by all good propagandists like the BBC and CBC. Ignore the two articles prior, pick on the weakest one and then pretend this invalidates the entire argument somehow. Amazing how many people fall for this line of specious reasoning.

 

I just picked the first three I found BTW.

[Ehjays]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/atkins-intent-on-getting-to-know-bautista-encarnacion-before-contract-talks/

[BillBucknorslegs]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/atkins-intent-on-getting-to-know-bautista-encarnacion-before-contract-talks/

 

The FO should take all the time they need to get to know EE and JB. They won't be here soon anyway and they can admire them all they want when they put on Red Sox and Yankee jerseys.

[G-Snarls]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/atkins-intent-on-getting-to-know-bautista-encarnacion-before-contract-talks/

 

For those who don't want to have to read it:

 

Shapiro and Atkins went to Bautista's house in Florida and spent 3 hours with him

 

End of story

[BigCecil]

For those who don't want to have to read it:

 

Shapiro and Atkins went to Bautista's house in Florida and spent 3 hours with him

 

End of story

 

Lol. And they lived happily ever after?

[KingKat]

Atkins has some quirky tics. Lots of shoulder shrugging and nodding and chewing motions when he's listening.

[burlingtonbandit]

Interesting, sounds like they are going to talk extensions with other players as well. Have to think he was talking about Stroman without dropping his name there.

[Ehjays]

Interesting, sounds like they are going to talk extensions with other players as well. Have to think he was talking about Stroman without dropping his name there.

 

Yeah I thought that too, Stroman or JD

[Boxcar]

Shapiro is about value/dollars. This is what Bautista and Encarnacion provide. I don't know why people are so pessimistic. If they are asking for reasonable deals, they will be re-signed.

[burlingtonbandit]

Shapiro is about value/dollars. This is what Bautista and Encarnacion provide. I don't know why people are so pessimistic. If they are asking for reasonable deals, they will be re-signed.

 

Because reasonable to Jose and Edwin mean market value and market value might not make sense for the Blue Jays payroll.

[Angrioter]

Shapiro is about value/dollars. This is what Bautista and Encarnacion provide. I don't know why people are so pessimistic. If they are asking for reasonable deals, they will be re-signed.

 

Tulo +20 M, Martin +18M, Donaldson +16M, Jose and Edwin +20M doesn't look good.

 

Trade Tulo and Edwin. Sign Jose and Donaldson long-term.

[Angrioter]

Blue Jays' new execs still getting to know Bautista, Encarnacion

 

 

Toronto Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins is trying to familiarize himself with his new surroundings before jumping into the deep end.

 

The first-time GM's been on the job for under two months. He and team president Mark Shapiro are looking to get acquainted with soon-to-be free-agent sluggers Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion before deciding whether they're involved in the franchise's long-term future.

 

"I love baseball players and I love seeing them getting paid," Atkins told reporters Friday. "They earn their money, but it is a significant undertaking when you talk about extensions and it takes time. We don't have relationships with these guys, so we're focused on the relationship first."

 

Shapiro and Atkins both came from the Cleveland Indians following the Blue Jays' postseason run, and have had an open dialogue with the two longest-tenured players on the club. The pair exchanged phone calls with the two sluggers earlier this winter and met with Bautista in Florida recently.

 

"It was great to spend time with him, great to get to know him," Atkins said. "We spent about three hours really just learning more about him as a person and things that are important to him as a player."

 

Bautista and Encarnacion combined to hit 79 home runs last season and have been the focal point of the Blue Jays' offense the past six years. There will be no shortage of suitors, however, if they both decide to hit free agency, and after both playing on team-friendly deals, they may go out in search of a lucrative deal in what projects to be a dismal free-agent class.

 

Shapiro must decide if spending most of the club's budget on two players who would be entering their age 36 and 34 seasons is worth it, though recent comments suggests he believes it is.

 

"I can tell you, we're going to continue to want (an extension) to happen," Shapiro said earlier in January, "and we're going to work to make that happen."

[Effit]

Can anybody explain why people on social media are so upset just because the FO wants to get to know Bats and EE? I see wanting to establish a relationship with them as a good thing. Am I missing something? People acting as if this makes Shapiro and Atkins the scum of the earth.

[Boxcar]

Because reasonable to Jose and Edwin mean market value and market value might not make sense for the Blue Jays payroll.

 

Rogers cares about its image. Companies invest in PR all the time. I don't think it's crazy to think that it makes economic sense to have these guys retire here.

[glory]

Signing them might be the best value/dollar, but the issue will always be whether Rogers will increase payroll to accommodate two extensions + still provide enough money to improve the team around them. If the payroll remains around $140-150m, then they better be prepared to run out a ton of league minimum talent in other positions, because that's probably all they'd have left to spend if they re-signed both.

[Spanky99]

Can anybody explain why people on social media are so upset just because the FO wants to get to know Bats and EE? I see wanting to establish a relationship with them as a good thing. Am I missing something? People acting as if this makes Shapiro and Atkins the scum of the earth.

 

First mistake, mate.

[burlingtonbandit]

Rogers cares about its image. Companies invest in PR all the time. I don't think it's crazy to think that it makes economic sense to have these guys retire here.

 

Rogers has done a f***ing horrible job at PR management in regards to the Blue Jays the last 3 years. Ervin Santana situation, not spending at the deadline in 2014 when they said they would, the Dan Duquette clusterf*** and even the payroll situation this year Rogers has been a PR nightmare.

 

I doubt they tell Shapiro to sign Bautista at all costs.

[Spanky99]

Rogers has done a f***ing horrible job at PR management in regards to the Blue Jays the last 3 years. Ervin Santana situation, not spending at the deadline in 2014 when they said they would, the Dan Duquette clusterf*** and even the payroll situation this year Rogers has been a PR nightmare.

 

I doubt they tell Shapiro to sign Bautista at all costs.

 

Very good points, lol. That was horribad.

[BigCecil]

Rogers cares about its image. Companies invest in PR all the time. I don't think it's crazy to think that it makes economic sense to have these guys retire here.

 

Agree that it's not crazy. As far as FA WAR/$ they will be good value, or at least a good probability risk. The issue is the total cost of arbitration, other big ticket players and depth signings. We are likely to lose Cecil in 2017 and if Hutch does have a good season he is getting a big arb raise. We need younger cheaper players like Travis and Pompey to contribute giving him more budget flex. If mgm feel they can move Tulo in 2017 (if he agrees) the math makes more sense for resigning one or both of them. It's all about the budget Rogers gives him.

[glory]

Yep, trading either Tulo or Martin is the only way I can see bringing both (JB/EE) back. You can't fit all five (those four + JD) on a payroll that isn't top 5 in baseball.

[Angrioter]

Agree that it's not crazy. As far as FA WAR/$ they will be good value, or at least a good probability risk. The issue is the total cost of arbitration, other big ticket players and depth signings. We are likely to lose Cecil in 2017 and if Hutch does have a good season he is getting a big arb raise. We need younger cheaper players like Travis and Pompey to contribute giving him more budget flex. If mgm feel they can move Tulo in 2017 (if he agrees) the math makes more sense for resigning one or both of them. It's all about the budget Rogers gives him.

 

AA f***ed the farm upper level, but Shapiro is here to clean the s*** in the floor.

 

Travis, Stroman, Pompey, Alford, Greene, Pillar have to step up to succeed as an organization

[Captain Adama]

Can anybody explain why people on social media are so upset just because the FO wants to get to know Bats and EE? I see wanting to establish a relationship with them as a good thing. Am I missing something? People acting as if this makes Shapiro and Atkins the scum of the earth.

 

Because people on social media are generally stupid.

[Effit]

Because people on social media are generally stupid.

 

They should probably stick to deciding which instagram filter to use and just forget everything else.

[Stangstag]

Yep, trading either Tulo or Martin is the only way I can see bringing both (JB/EE) back. You can't fit all five (those four + JD) on a payroll that isn't top 5 in baseball.

 

I see Tulo/Martin providing more value than Bautista/Edwin going forward. I would be keeping Martin and Tulo first, then Eddy, then Bautista.

[gruber92]

I see Tulo/Martin providing more value than Bautista/Edwin going forward. I would be keeping Martin and Tulo first, then Eddy, then Bautista.

You're analysis is based heavily on defense obviously. The offence Bautista / EE create is off the charts. I personally wouldn't place EE ahead of Bautista either. Tulo finding his offensive norm, or close to it, is key.

[gbill2004]

For those who don't want to have to read it:

 

Shapiro and Atkins went to Bautista's house in Florida and spent 3 hours with him

 

End of story

Ménage a trois??