Best Wishes to Daniel Norris thread

[Brans]

I know this is the price you paid but it is still hard. David Price was the best pitcher available on the market and the price was steep. Without Price we are likely fighting for the second wild card. Price choking in the playoffs and honestly did not see I do care about previous years because he was looking like the best pitcher in the AL. I really against trading top pitching prospect for rental players because it can send a franchise back. Look at the Mets pitching staff they could go the the World Series multiple times with that young talent staff. Its hurts because I feel cheated by the way David Price is pitching.

 

Some teams would be stupid enough to give him a ten year 200 million dollar deal. In the regular season he is the best pitcher in the AL in the post season he struggles. Maybe in the minor league he did not experience enough teaching to deal with pressure situations. Maybe he did not spend enough time in the minor leagues and was rushed to the big leagues because he was the number 1 pick. Maybe he was always the best pitcher and success always came easy for him and when things do not go his way he buckles under the pressure. People never doubted his abilities and has always received praise.

 

Edit Detroit. Sorry

[Jonn]

Ofcourse it will hurt but those are the choices you make trying to make the postseason.

[candymartinez]

No one is going to read all that.

[AdamGreenwood]

I know this is the price you paid but it is still hard. David Price was the best pitcher available on the market and the price was steep. Without Price we are likely fighting for the second wild card. Price choking in the playoffs and honestly did not see I do care about previous years because he was looking like the best pitcher in the AL. I really against trading top pitching prospect for rental players because it can send a franchise back. Look at the Mets pitching staff they could go the the World Series multiple times with that young talent staff. Its hurts because I feel cheated by the way David Price is pitching.

 

Some teams would be stupid enough to give him a ten year 200 million dollar deal. In the regular season he is the best pitcher in the AL in the post season he struggles. Maybe in the minor league he did not experience enough teaching to deal with pressure situations. Maybe he did not spend enough time in the minor leagues and was rushed to the big leagues because he was the number 1 pick. Maybe he was always the best pitcher and success always came easy for him and when things do not go his way he buckles under the pressure. People never doubted his abilities and has always received praise.

 

Edit Detroit. Sorry

 

Actually, without Price, we probably would have won the division anyway.

We finished 6 games ahead of the Yankees.

 

Price started a total of 11 games,

The Jays won 9 of those games and lost 2.

 

But, if we assume, that the Jays would have given up an average of 6 runs per game, without Price pitching, we still would have won 5 of those games.

So, that means Price won four games for us, that we would have lost otherwise.

 

In which case, we would have won the division by two games. Granted, that doesn't factor in bullpen rest etc, that Price was able to provide by pitching late into the game.

[fatcowxlive]

It won't hurt me. We sacrificed him to pretty much guarantee the end of the 22 year post-season drought. Especially if we go all the way, I could care less if Norris becomes a CY Young winner year in and year out.

[Collison]

I think it was a good move. You have to take gambles. I read a quote from a GM saying when you are close to winning a championship, you need to go all in because you don't know when you are going to be that close again. In other words, it isn't easy winning a World Series or going, so therefore you need to take the risks in order to move ahead. Royals did the same thing with Cueto (gave up a lot). Didn't look like a good trade until game 5 against Astros. Without Cueto, Royals aren't playing right now

[Angrioter]

Norris is a stud.

[venema20]

Actually, without Price, we probably would have won the division anyway.

We finished 6 games ahead of the Yankees.

 

Price started a total of 11 games,

The Jays won 9 of those games and lost 2.

 

But, if we assume, that the Jays would have given up an average of 6 runs per game, without Price pitching, we still would have won 5 of those games.

So, that means Price won four games for us, that we would have lost otherwise.

 

In which case, we would have won the division by two games. Granted, that doesn't factor in bullpen rest etc, that Price was able to provide by pitching late into the game.

 

You also have to factor in if he wasn't traded to Toronto, where would he go?

 

He could have ended up with the Yankees which would have helped them win the division. Or one of the wild card teams and then that helps them beat Toronto out etc.

[BigCecil]

No issue with deal and will live with the consequences. Jays are going to comeback against KC, and Price will be a big part of it on the positive side all said and done. Still don't want to sign him for what he will be paid.

[DonnysManbun]

Hey man it worked out a lot better than the syndergaard deal.

 

Norris won't be close to Thor me thinks.

[Jimcanuck]

Hey man it worked out a lot better than the syndergaard deal.

 

Norris won't be close to Thor me thinks.

 

Both deals stupid. Could be the Astros or Cubbies right now instead of the Phillies II.

[BTS]

It won't hurt me. We sacrificed him to pretty much guarantee the end of the 22 year post-season drought. Especially if we go all the way, I could care less if Norris becomes a CY Young winner year in and year out.

 

Without getting in to what I thought about the trade, I hate when this team's 20+ years of ineptitude gets factored into the evaluation of trades they made. Renting Price has to make sense from the day of the trade going forward. Sure, a fan is entitled to think whatever they want, but giving the front office a pass for going all in because 22 years is taking it too far. The fans will want a winner in 2018 as much as they want one now. They just don't know it yet.

[Frenchsoup]

Both deals stupid. Could be the Astros or Cubbies right now instead of the Phillies II.

 

We aren't the Phillies, at least not for a couple years. Even then we'll have some young guys pushing up.

[DonnysManbun]

More worried about what Hoffman turns into tbh

[Angrioter]

Hey man it worked out a lot better than the syndergaard deal.

 

Norris won't be close to Thor me thinks.

 

Dickey+3 years > Price 14 outings

[Angrioter]

More worried about what Hoffman turns into tbh

This guy can't strike out guys

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Was this thread necessary?

 

I think anyone who even semi-follows and supports the Jays knows the risks in trading blue chip talent. This is like starting a thread with the title "Man, if we lose the ALCS it will be so depressing".

 

It's a captain obvious thread.

 

Anyway, know for my two cents, because I am already logged in. Without Price we are not in the post-season. Period. Post-season > blue chip prospects.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Actually, without Price, we probably would have won the division anyway.

We finished 6 games ahead of the Yankees.

 

Price started a total of 11 games,

The Jays won 9 of those games and lost 2.

 

But, if we assume, that the Jays would have given up an average of 6 runs per game, without Price pitching, we still would have won 5 of those games.

So, that means Price won four games for us, that we would have lost otherwise.

 

In which case, we would have won the division by two games. Granted, that doesn't factor in bullpen rest etc, that Price was able to provide by pitching late into the game.

 

********. I don't think we do. You don't think the team played a little better all jazzed because they signed Price? If not, you're delusional. Without Price I am almost 100% positive we're not here.

[SAAviour]

A little off topic, but got me thinking about trades and off season.....and realized it's almost Novemebr, and the off season is almost about to get into full swing, and then 3 months later it's spring training. Which to me seems so fast because we usually have been talking about the off season on August 1st...and then it seems to take forever to get to and through.

 

Another benefit of post season baseball!

[Jimcanuck]

We aren't the Phillies, at least not for a couple years. Even then we'll have some young guys pushing up.

 

Who?

 

Other than Alford I don't see much.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Prospects on the farm, prospects not yet drafted and prospects not yet traded for.

 

Are you thinking the farm, as it is, won't change at all in 2-3 years?

[gruber92]

Hey man it worked out a lot better than the syndergaard deal.

 

Norris won't be close to Thor me thinks.

 

Noah has an acting career to fall back to. After Breaking Bad ended, he said he'd try pitching. Holy f***..it's Todd !!

 

[Jimcanuck]

Prospects on the farm, prospects not yet drafted and prospects not yet traded for.

 

Are you thinking the farm, as it is, won't change at all in 2-3 years?

 

The failure rate for prospects is high. We can't expect Vlad Jr to be a MLB player, he is more likely to develop into a Mitch Nay.

 

Sure, in 2-3 years there will be more prospects on the farm, mostly in the lower levels since almost all of the close to majors prospects have been traded.

 

Again, I would rather the Astros/Cubs approach.

[reedjohnsonfan]

I really doubt Norris is going to become a stud. If you look at the other top prospect pitchers who came up this year, Norris is far behind most of them IMO. Obviously Walker, Rodon, Thor (ugh), Severino, Nola, Matz seem to be a lot better (to name a few, not everyone). Don't see him becoming more than a mid-rotation arm but we'll see.

[Jimcanuck]

I really doubt Norris is going to become a stud. If you look at the other top prospect pitchers who came up this year, Norris is far behind most of them IMO. Obviously Walker, Rodon, Thor (ugh), Severino, Nola, Matz seem to be a lot better (to name a few, not everyone). Don't see him becoming more than a mid-rotation arm but we'll see.

 

He's not far behind the others, but I don't see him becoming a stud either. He doesn't have that kind of arsenal.

[glory]

Getting something like Gomez/Fiers was a lot more sensible than getting Price, IMO. Might have cost the same, or a little more, but the years of control would have been a lot more desirable.

[fatcowxlive]

Without getting in to what I thought about the trade, I hate when this team's 20+ years of ineptitude gets factored into the evaluation of trades they made. Renting Price has to make sense from the day of the trade going forward. Sure, a fan is entitled to think whatever they want, but giving the front office a pass for going all in because 22 years is taking it too far. The fans will want a winner in 2018 as much as they want one now. They just don't know it yet.

 

That's true, and I agree with you on that statement, I think it's stupid if the FO makes a decision based on the drought. However that's not what I meant to say. I meant to say that this was the trade that got us in to the post season, which happened to be after 22 years. While I'm sure Norris is going to be a stud, I'm not 100% convinced that Norris can give us the same value/make as big of an impact in the later years as Price did down the stretch. I personally don't think Norris will be a Syndergaard or a Halladay or a Stroman. He'll be a great solid front of the rotation pitcher, but I think we have enough arms coming up and enough young talent in the farm to deal if we need a younger front of the rotation starter in the future. Don't forget that this post-season run will give Rogers an incentive to spend on the team given the positive response from the nation during the run which could mean good FA signings in the near future.

[DonnysManbun]

This guy can't strike out guys

 

I've heard conflicting reports, some say he was restricted from throwing much offspeed stuff this season, atleast while with the Jays. Maybe someone with better knowledge can lend their opinion

[glory]

Without getting in to what I thought about the trade, I hate when this team's 20+ years of ineptitude gets factored into the evaluation of trades they made. Renting Price has to make sense from the day of the trade going forward. Sure, a fan is entitled to think whatever they want, but giving the front office a pass for going all in because 22 years is taking it too far. The fans will want a winner in 2018 as much as they want one now. They just don't know it yet.

 

Right on the money.

 

Same s*** happened after 2012. If the Jays just stayed the course, they would have been a better version of the Mets right now with all their young pitching + still had the assets to make trades to add impact talent. Instead they went for short-term gain, and when that failed, they just doubled down for even shorter term gain. I hope it works out and leads to a title, but if it doesn't, trust me, 2 years from now the people saying it was worth won't be singing the same tune if it leads down a path of more mediocrity.

[Ehjays]

Actually, without Price, we probably would have won the division anyway.

We finished 6 games ahead of the Yankees.

 

Price started a total of 11 games,

The Jays won 9 of those games and lost 2.

 

But, if we assume, that the Jays would have given up an average of 6 runs per game, without Price pitching, we still would have won 5 of those games.

So, that means Price won four games for us, that we would have lost otherwise.

 

In which case, we would have won the division by two games. Granted, that doesn't factor in bullpen rest etc, that Price was able to provide by pitching late into the game.

 

3 of those games he pitched were against the yanks