Chase Utley's slide

[Krylian]

From foxsports:

'

"The overwhelming opinion on this matter was no, with 55 of the 65 players believing that there should be no discipline handed down from MLB for Utley."

 

Yup. Let's let the inmates run the asylum. Good idea.

 

It's a dirty slide...and it's unfortunate that discipline hasn't been handed down in the past.

 

This is like hits to the head in hockey. It used to just be view as a good, hard hit with no penalty...but boy has that changed.

[Krylian]

Is anyone here actually arguing that players shouldn't do this anymore? It's the fairness and discipline aspect that is in question

 

How do you change the behaviour without discipline...

[Grant77]

Yup. Let's let the inmates run the asylum. Good idea.

 

It's a dirty slide...and it's unfortunate that discipline hasn't been handed down in the past.

 

This is like hits to the head in hockey. It used to just be view as a good, hard hit with no penalty...but boy has that changed.

 

The NHL didn't just decide in the middle of the Stanley Cup Playoffs to start suspending players. They made it very clear in the offseason what kind of hits wouldn't be tolerated and it's been a great success in my view. Nobody was caught off guard by that change.

[Grant77]

How do you change the behaviour without discipline...

 

Holy f***, learn to read. RULES SHOULD NOT CHANGE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE f***ING PLAYOFFS.

 

I'm convinced that you are just trolling now, maybe the mods should just get rid of you. Gnite.

[Krylian]

The NHL didn't just decide in the middle of the Stanley Cup Playoffs to start suspending players. They made it very clear in the offseason what kind of hits wouldn't be tolerated and it's been a great success in my view. Nobody was caught off guard by that change.

 

Yes. They had to add the wording into the rules cause contact to the head was never illegal. The difference here is that there are already rules against this type of dangerous play. Your argument is that since it hasn't been strictly enforced in the past, they're not allowed to do it now. Why? Because it's the playoffs? So now LA loses Utley for 2 games? How about the fact that it's Utley that screwed the Mets with his slide/tackle?

 

The wording is already in there...everyone should know that this is an illegal play. We all know you can basically go 115 km/h when you're on a highway and never get a ticket...but if all of a sudden people started getting pulled over for going 5 over, maybe people would be pissed...but the 100 max is posted...just cause it's never really been enforced that doesn't mean that can't if they decide they want to start. The timing of it is irrelevant.

[Krylian]

Holy f***, learn to read. RULES SHOULD NOT CHANGE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE f***ING PLAYOFFS.

 

I'm convinced that you are just trolling now, maybe the mods should just get rid of you. Gnite.

 

The rules haven't changed. You're arguing about the timing of the discipline.

 

Why you mad bro?

[GD]

classic Grant

[Krylian]

classic Grant

 

So this is a typical thing then?

[Treeplant]

I get really frustrated by results-orientated discipline.

 

These slides have been happening all season. Look at Tulo's slide tonight where he didn't even go for the bag (though he didn't really come close to making contact either)! It was a hard play in the sense that Utley was trying to knock the defensive player out of the player out of the play hard, but we've seen a lot of that.

 

Like someone said above, the NHL didn't enforce head shots (which is a good comparison problem to this) in the middle of the playoffs. If he doesn't get hurt no way anyone even second guesses the play. Completely results orientated freakout/suspension.

 

I'd like these hard slides taken out of the game myself because they're not worth the risk, but take them out properly, don't suspend one guy who does what's been done a thousand times without penalty in the playoffs.

[Jayday]

So this is a typical thing then?

 

He's always been kinda dorky, and never admits to losing an argument though the entire world pop says he's wrong.

[Krylian]

I get really frustrated by results-orientated discipline.

 

These slides have been happening all season. Look at Tulo's slide tonight where he didn't even go for the bag (though he didn't really come close to making contact either)! It was a hard play in the sense that Utley was trying to knock the defensive player out of the player out of the play hard, but we've seen a lot of that.

 

Like someone said above, the NHL didn't enforce head shots (which is a good comparison problem to this) in the middle of the playoffs. If he doesn't get hurt no way anyone even second guesses the play. Completely results orientated freakout/suspension.

 

I'd like these hard slides taken out of the game myself because they're not worth the risk, but take them out properly, don't suspend one guy who does what's been done a thousand times without penalty in the playoffs.

 

Welcome to our judicial system.

[Grant77]

He's always been kinda dorky, and never admits to losing an argument though the entire world pop says he's wrong.

 

Almost everyone says I'm right in this instance, both posters and players, but I'm not afraid to take a stand when the facts are in my favour. Facts and logic matter, emotions don't. That's why Krylian is wrong.

[Mozzer]

Honestly I would have suspended him for the duration of the playoffs. I'm all for a hard nosed play, but that was a garbage slide. Could be the turning point of that series.

[o2cui2i]

Joe Torre's explanation just makes this decision sound even worse.

 

Joe: "Well..uh...I can't worry about what happened in the past"

 

Yes you can! Rule enforcement in-season can't be inconsistent, ESPECIALLY in the post-season.

 

Few other than knuckleheads like Zaun like to see this, but they have let it go forever and they have to live with that mistake.

 

I agree that outside pressure is what is making the commissioners office do anything. The rule to stop this has been around for a long time but never rarely enforced. I find it entirely odd that Odor got away with an almost identical play just days ago and they did nothing.

 

the injury makes people feel bad, then they demand justice and now Torre is afraid of looking like the NFL so the commissioners office reacts.

 

Rule should have been enforced decades ago but as usual it takes a major injury or 10 to get anything to change.

[TheHurl]

Almost everyone says I'm right in this instance, both posters and players, but I'm not afraid to take a stand when the facts are in my favour. Facts and logic matter, emotions don't. That's why Krylian is wrong.

 

Take a sports ethics or sports sociology class...emotions drive sport. Right and wrong don't matter, money matters. Reactions of fans matter for that reason. Beating your girlfriend gets 2 games, beating your girlfriend and video comes out is a lifetime ban. PED use and admitting it forgivable, lying about it gets you double suspension.

 

It's funny cause you are one of the most emotion driven fans ever, and now you are going to go after the MLB for making a decision based on the outrage of the fans. Just 2 days ago you called for an umpire to be removed (suspended) from the playoffs because you viewed him to have some sort of agenda.

[jays_fever]

Honestly I would have suspended him for the duration of the playoffs. I'm all for a hard nosed play, but that was a garbage slide. Could be the turning point of that series.

 

I would suspend him for as long as Tejada is expected to miss, which I would love to see going forward.

[intentional wok]

Is anyone else a little bit annoyed that a good portion of the broadcasts seem to be talking about the Utley slide? The reporters must have been thrilled when it happened because it meant they'd have a non-baseball baseball story to keep the playoff fans interested.

 

Just talk about the game. Mention the incident once or twice. Don't interview Joe Torre during a Rangers-Jays game and ask him the same question over and over again. Put Harold Reynolds in the drunk tank.

 

tl;dr: I hate human interest stories that invite people to bring their own re-heated opinions to the table. It was an illegal slide and MLB did the correct thing regardless of whether or not they were negligent before that.

[BigCecil]

Is anyone else a little bit annoyed that a good portion of the broadcasts seem to be talking about the Utley slide? The reporters must have been thrilled when it happened because it meant they'd have a non-baseball baseball story to keep the playoff fans interested.

 

Just talk about the game. Mention the incident once or twice. Don't interview Joe Torre during a Rangers-Jays game and ask him the same question over and over again. Put Harold Reynolds in the drunk tank.

 

Agree. Either. Torre was "Aw shucks" sandbagging us or he isn't as bright as I kind of thought he might be. As if precedents aren't relevant in appeal? What good lawyer wouldn't love a chance to cross examination that explanation.

[intentional wok]

Agree. Either. Torre was "Aw shucks" sandbagging us or he isn't as bright as I kind of thought he might be. As if precedents aren't relevant in appeal? What good lawyer wouldn't love a chance to cross examination that explanation.

 

If Rosenthal really wanted his chat with Torre to be meaningful he'd have brought up the Kang-Coghlan collision as a comparison and grilled them about previous negligence in enforcing a rule.

 

"Does being on the national centre stage affect your judgment on the Utley play? If not, why was the rule not enforced in other situations during the regular season?"

 

Torre was aw shucksing because he's just trying to save face because MLB is awful and its on-field arbiters are either incompetent or hold way too much power over them (probably the latter).

[Grant77]

Take a sports ethics or sports sociology class...emotions drive sport. Right and wrong don't matter, money matters. Reactions of fans matter for that reason. Beating your girlfriend gets 2 games, beating your girlfriend and video comes out is a lifetime ban. PED use and admitting it forgivable, lying about it gets you double suspension.

 

It's funny cause you are one of the most emotion driven fans ever, and now you are going to go after the MLB for making a decision based on the outrage of the fans. Just 2 days ago you called for an umpire to be removed (suspended) from the playoffs because you viewed him to have some sort of agenda.

 

Everyone has different expectations of a sports league when they give them their money. I expect logical and fair decisions, not the catering to the whims of a bunch of complete idiots that we just saw.

 

You're also lying about the umpire thread, as I made very clear that there was no conspiracy. I was upset that an umpire with a bad track record and little experience had cost us runs when more competent people were available. Russ Martin had pretty much said the same thing after the game.

[LunchBox]

Utley being suspended is disgraceful. You can't just change the rules in the middle of the postseason; this same slide wasn't punished all year.

 

What they should have done was address this in the offseason and make clear that suspensions are on the table for 2016.

 

Entirely correct. Then to have one of the league's top execs announce on a national broadcast that precedents were ignored altogether. One would think that Utley will get this overturned on that basis alone.

 

Additionally, it's difficult to expect accountability from umpires when the man who oversees them makes decisions in this manner.

[Nafro]

No. All three slides were different. Just because they were all trying to break up a double play doesn't mean each slide was the same. Utley was reckelss. Donaldson was borderline in a big way. Beltre slid straight into the base after the fielder had already moved and just made a poor fundamental slide resulting in an injury.

 

I can buy that. Just thought it was ironic both were injured "trying to break up double play" in one form or another.

[Followthelight]

MLB needs to crack down on this s***, Napoli's slide was dirty as well.

[Jim_Ackers_balls]

Nothing wrong with Utley's slide.

 

Tejada put himself in a bad position by twirling like some dancing queen and couldn't get out of the way of Utley. Utley doesn't have to touch the base in order to do that play, but was close enough to the bag where he could touch it. Torre calling Utley's collision a rolling block is not accurate at all. A stink is only being made because a player was hurt over it. Where was the uprise when Kang was taken out by Coglan in September?

 

New Yawk gonna New Yawk.

 

All those other examples are showing players that are nowhere near the base. Totally different.

[Krylian]

Nothing wrong with Utley's slide.

 

Tejada put himself in a bad position by twirling like some dancing queen and couldn't get out of the way of Utley. Utley doesn't have to touch the base in order to do that play, but was close enough to the bag where he could touch it. Torre calling Utley's collision a rolling block is not accurate at all. A stink is only being made because a player was hurt over it. Where was the uprise when Kang was taken out by Coglan in September?

 

New Yawk gonna New Yawk.

 

All those other examples are showing players that are nowhere near the base. Totally different.

 

LOL

 

He started his slide after he passed the bag.

[baseballsss]

LOL

 

He started his slide after he passed the bag.

 

He has a point. Whether he started his slide after or not doesn't matter. His arm was still close enough to the bag and he was going to break up the double play. If JD did that everyone would have a different stance on this play guranteed.

[intentional wok]

He has a point. Whether he started his slide after or not doesn't matter. His arm was still close enough to the bag and he was going to break up the double play. If JD did that everyone would have a different stance on this play guranteed.

 

You have a pretty low opinion of the posters here. I'd probably be pretty disappointed if one of my favourite players pulled what Utley did, but I'd still eventually cheer for him afterwards. Doesn't change the fact that dirty is dirty.

 

I call out dumb s*** the Blue Jays do all the time. Everyone here does. It's pretty much the basis on which gameday threads are built.

[admin]

Didn't read the thread. SLide was dirty, but I think the pain that resulted from him hitting his head twice, first off the player, than off the ground, was punishment enough lol. Surprised he didn't get a concussion, looked worse than Donaldson.

[Jim_Ackers_balls]

You have a pretty low opinion of the posters here. I'd probably be pretty disappointed if one of my favourite players pulled what Utley did, but I'd still eventually cheer for him afterwards. Doesn't change the fact that dirty is dirty.

 

I call out dumb s*** the Blue Jays do all the time. Everyone here does. It's pretty much the basis on which gameday threads are built.

 

I don't understand how something within the confines of the rules is "dirty." If it was dirty the umpires would have thrown him out of the game. You had six of them there and they didn't do that.

[intentional wok]

I don't understand how something within the confines of the rules is "dirty." If it was dirty the umpires would have thrown him out of the game. You had six of them there and they didn't do that.

 

It's not within the confines of the rules, though. He was already even with the base before he laid out for a slide. It was straight up interference. There wasn't even a pretense of getting into the base.

 

That MLB brought the hammer down while the umps did nothing should tell you all you need to know about trusting an ump crew's judgment.

 

Remember when the Royals were head hunting Donaldson, but it was Aaron Sanchez who eventually got the boot? Yeah. Ump behaviour isn't exactly a model for determining what's acceptable.