Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[Daniel Labude]

He's there, the club is waiting for Espinal and Biggio to get their reps.

 

[Mikeleelop]

I'll put my record against Keith Law's any day.

 

Hell, I'll put YOUR prospect record against Keith Law's any day.

 

but it appears that Law has proven to be correct on Biggio

[Mikeleelop]

who are prospects that may impact or play MLB innings next season??

 

- how close is Groshans? is he an impact player?

- Moreno looks to be slated to AAA unless the MLB logjam at C is broken up

- Martinez is a couple years away, may start next year at AA

- do we have any impact arms to give us the Tampa/NYY bullpen model with multiple high velocity guys who can shut down the opposition from 5inning on

- is Pearson ready to pitch in the majors? if he throws with confidence and challenges hitters he is a great pitcher, but appears to be tentative in the strike zone. Get him the Tampa Bay mentality and he's a stud

[Laika]

but it appears that Law has proven to be correct on Biggio

 

Gotta wait at least a couple more years before using the P word. Law has the momentum though.

[max silver]

but it appears that Law has proven to be correct on Biggio

 

Far from it. Biggio just suffered through an injury plagued season which included several hand issues, various back issues, a neck injury and an elbow injury. I am having a hard time seeing how any player would be able to play up to their capabilities if faced with the same injuries that Biggio was forced to endure. Maybe he doesn't fully reach the previous heights that he rose to during his first few seasons but that's far from a given.

[Laika]

who are prospects that may impact or play MLB innings next season??

 

- how close is Groshans? is he an impact player?

- Moreno looks to be slated to AAA unless the MLB logjam at C is broken up

- Martinez is a couple years away, may start next year at AA

- do we have any impact arms to give us the Tampa/NYY bullpen model with multiple high velocity guys who can shut down the opposition from 5inning on

- is Pearson ready to pitch in the majors? if he throws with confidence and challenges hitters he is a great pitcher, but appears to be tentative in the strike zone. Get him the Tampa Bay mentality and he's a stud

 

- how close is Groshans? is he an impact player?

 

If he dominated the minors in 2022 he could be up but 2023 would be his more likely timeline to be an MLB starter.

 

- Moreno looks to be slated to AAA unless the MLB logjam at C is broken up

 

Moreno is the future. He could start in AAA but the team could do so many different things with the catcher position. Trades to make room for Moreno are possible.

 

- Martinez is a couple years away, may start next year at AA

 

Yes. Could start in AA but don't expect MLB time in 2022.

 

- do we have any impact arms to give us the Tampa/NYY bullpen model with multiple high velocity guys who can shut down the opposition from 5inning on

 

Probably not any time soon. Kloffenstein, Palmer, Van Eyk, Robberse, Joey Murray, and Hoglund are all 2-4 years away and some of them struggled a bit in 2021, particularly with walks. Toronto needs to be in pitching talent acquisition mode at all levels of the organization. Note that many of Tampa Bay's MLB arms were acquired by trade and not developed in house.

 

- is Pearson ready to pitch in the majors? if he throws with confidence and challenges hitters he is a great pitcher, but appears to be tentative in the strike zone. Get him the Tampa Bay mentality and he's a stud

 

Related to the question above - if you want to see some multi-inning weapons out of the bullpen the answers for 2022 are probably already on the team and they would be Merryweather, Borucki, and Pearson. Those guys need to figure it out and stay healthy. Of course Pearson may be a traditional SP which would be even better. Thornton, Kay, and Hatch are not lost causes and could also be helpful but don't expect contributions from them.

[Mikeleelop]

Gregory Polanco - i assume he's now a free agent, but do the Jays have an option on him for next year??

 

he intrigues me as an option for the Jays going forward . put up some good numbers in Buffalo and a LHH

 

he could be another reclaim project that thrives in Toronto...

[Mikeleelop]

Far from it. Biggio just suffered through an injury plagued season which included several hand issues, various back issues, a neck injury and an elbow injury. I am having a hard time seeing how any player would be able to play up to their capabilities if faced with the same injuries that Biggio was forced to endure. Maybe he doesn't fully reach the previous heights that he rose to during his first few seasons but that's far from a given.

 

he has trouble with velocity and the change in baseball was projected to hurt him the most of any bluejay in 2021.

 

that issue with velocity is not fixed and unless it does he will continue to struggle

[max silver]

he has trouble with velocity and the change in baseball was projected to hurt him the most of any bluejay in 2021.

 

that issue with velocity is not fixed and unless it does he will continue to struggle

 

Biggio had success in 2019 and 2020 with the same skill set that he brought to the majors in 2021. He's only 26 and should be at the age where he is hitting his physical peak, not at an advanced age where you would expect to see a sudden skill deterioration. I refuse to buy into this narrative that he is suddenly finished because Keith Law refuses to admit his mistakes and spent hours digging through data to come up with some sort of fatal flaw that somehow proves that Biggio has no major league future.

 

Biggio didn't really face a significant increase in fastballs against in 2021 so I don't really think you can use the weakness against velocity to explain the struggles during the most recent season. When you examine his numbers you quickly see that he struggled against all manner of pitches in 2021 including some he previously had some success against such as cutters and change-ups. He has been tinkering with approach but it really hasn't been working for him so far. He stated wanting to be more aggressive at the plate but this has been at the expense of his walk rate as his chase rate has increased by several points. Interestingly he hasn't always struggled against fastballs, when he first came up it was actually the pitch that he created most of his value against. It's been 2020 and 2021 where he started to struggle somewhat against the fastball with this peaking in 2021.

 

There is an obvious attempt to use the whole field as he was previously pretty pull heavy, but this certainly hasn't worked out in his favor up to this point. His best results in far in 2021 were to the pull side, with a 174 WRC+ on balls that he pulled, vs 63 WRC+ when going up the middle and 119 WRC+ when going to the opposite field. It appears to me as though the approach changes in 2021 really didn't do him any favors and he would be far better off reverting to his old ways of trying to hit the ball hard to the pull side and working walks.

[Daniel Labude]

[Laika]

 

Never heard of Brody Rodning but the rest of those guys are worth watching.

[Deadpool]

 

Cre Finfrock is 100% a character from Lord Of The Rings.

[Jimcanuck]

 

There it is, Moreno to AFL. We will find out soon enough if they play him at 3B.

[Laika]

There it is, Moreno to AFL. We will find out soon enough if they play him at 3B.

 

or if the organization even wants him to try

[Krylian]

or if the organization even wants him to try

 

He was a middle infielder when the Jays originally signed him as I recall...then converted him to C. He's certainly athletic enough to do it...but I'm thinking they probably won't go back to something they already crossed off the list in the first place.

[glory]

I think it's more likely the Jays trade Kirk and use Jansen/Reese in 2022 until Moreno is ready than it is moving Moreno to another position. They have no reason to move Moreno off catcher unless they think there is a better long term internal option, and the only one who has a chance to fit that description on the current roster was riding pine in favor of Reese McGuire down the stretch.

[Jimcanuck]

He was a middle infielder when the Jays originally signed him as I recall...then converted him to C. He's certainly athletic enough to do it...but I'm thinking they probably won't go back to something they already crossed off the list in the first place.

 

C/3B/1B, similar to other catchers in MLB.

 

Positional flexibility is valuable. Jays may have switched him to C based on projections at the time, but given his breakout as a hitter, their original projections are probably way off. And there is a glaring need at 3B.

 

And generally speaking, having Moreno as solely a catcher isn't a good idea, given the wear and tear effects on the bat.

[InsideThePark]

Happy to see Michael Dominguez in the AFL. Really think there's something there. He gets another chance to impress.

 

I don't think anyone didn't expect to see Moreno get extra reps there but glad to see it confirmed

[Jimcanuck]

BA pick for Jays MiLB player of the year:

Shortstop Orelvis Martinez was more than holding his own a couple of months into 2021, batting .256/.337/.450 through 44 games with Low-A Dunedin.

 

Yet the 19-year-old wasn't really having it.

 

“Some of his early season struggles weren’t really him struggling, but more him not meeting his own lofty expectations,” Blue Jays farm director Gil Kim said.

 

“The Dunedin staff (led by manager Luis Hurtado) actually sat down with him and reinforced how well he was actually doing, and pretty soon thereafter was that few weeks stretch where he was the hottest hitter on the planet.”

 

That stretch was basically July, when Martinez hit .320 with 13 home runs and nine doubles in 27 games. After a 2-for-4 day on Aug. 1, he was promoted to High-A Vancouver. He struggled there but hit 28 homers on the season while batting .261/.345/.549 in 98 games.

 

“Orelvis learning how to navigate a little bit of struggle was really important this year,” Kim said. “Early on in Dunedin, and then a little bit late in Vancouver, are probably the first few times that he wasn’t the best hitter on the field.

 

"And the way he was able to focus on what he needed to do to get better—and to work his tail off to do that—was awesome. That’s probably the most important thing.”

 

The 6-foot-1, 188-pound Dominican shortstop may eventually outgrow the position—he worked on his footwork and direction of his throwing this year—but his bat will play at third base. It is that offensive upside that made him a popular target for other clubs at the trade deadline.

 

“How hard Orelvis impacts the ball and his ability to consistently find the barrel in A-ball, we don't want to put challenging comparisons on him, but it reminds us of the wow factor that we had watching guys like Vladdy and Bo,” Kim said, referring to Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette.

 

“A lot depends on how he handles the next steps and how much he continues to work. Like Vlad and Bo, he desires to get better and puts the work in.”

 

— Double-A New Hampshire catcher Gabriel Moreno might have been the organization's Minor League Player of the Year had a thumb injury not truncated his season.

[TwistedLogic]

I guess Manuel Beltre is still too young to get a stint in the AFL? Would have been nice to see more of him.

 

Could be a huge riser for the Jays in the next couple of years like Moreno and Martinez.

[TwistedLogic]

BA pick for Jays MiLB player of the year:

Shortstop Orelvis Martinez was more than holding his own a couple of months into 2021, batting .256/.337/.450 through 44 games with Low-A Dunedin.

 

Yet the 19-year-old wasn't really having it.

 

“Some of his early season struggles weren’t really him struggling, but more him not meeting his own lofty expectations,” Blue Jays farm director Gil Kim said.

 

“The Dunedin staff (led by manager Luis Hurtado) actually sat down with him and reinforced how well he was actually doing, and pretty soon thereafter was that few weeks stretch where he was the hottest hitter on the planet.”

 

That stretch was basically July, when Martinez hit .320 with 13 home runs and nine doubles in 27 games. After a 2-for-4 day on Aug. 1, he was promoted to High-A Vancouver. He struggled there but hit 28 homers on the season while batting .261/.345/.549 in 98 games.

 

“Orelvis learning how to navigate a little bit of struggle was really important this year,” Kim said. “Early on in Dunedin, and then a little bit late in Vancouver, are probably the first few times that he wasn’t the best hitter on the field.

 

"And the way he was able to focus on what he needed to do to get better—and to work his tail off to do that—was awesome. That’s probably the most important thing.”

 

The 6-foot-1, 188-pound Dominican shortstop may eventually outgrow the position—he worked on his footwork and direction of his throwing this year—but his bat will play at third base. It is that offensive upside that made him a popular target for other clubs at the trade deadline.

 

“How hard Orelvis impacts the ball and his ability to consistently find the barrel in A-ball, we don't want to put challenging comparisons on him, but it reminds us of the wow factor that we had watching guys like Vladdy and Bo,” Kim said, referring to Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette.

 

“A lot depends on how he handles the next steps and how much he continues to work. Like Vlad and Bo, he desires to get better and puts the work in.”

 

— Double-A New Hampshire catcher Gabriel Moreno might have been the organization's Minor League Player of the Year had a thumb injury not truncated his season.

 

I read this yesterday but I have no idea how Baseball America of all outlets could give a Blue Jays minor leaguer of the year award and not give that to Moreno. He went from off their list to like #8 in the MLB on their Top 100.

[Jimcanuck]

I read this yesterday but I have no idea how Baseball America of all outlets could give a Blue Jays minor leaguer of the year award and not give that to Moreno. He went from off their list to like #8 in the MLB on their Top 100.

 

Prospect list is not the same, otherwise the highest rated prospect for each team would be the default minor leaguer of the year. Think of it as the MVP award, which doesn't always go to the most talented player in MLB.

[InsideThePark]

Dominguez went 3 innings, 6 K's, 3 walks, 3 hits, 3 runs in the AFL yesterday.

 

They've played 4 or 5 games and Moreno hasn't seen any action yet. Not sure why

[Jimcanuck]

Dominguez went 3 innings, 6 K's, 3 walks, 3 hits, 3 runs in the AFL yesterday.

 

They've played 4 or 5 games and Moreno hasn't seen any action yet. Not sure why

 

 

The bit about infield reps is interesting.

[thatoneguy]

This seems important...

 

[Abomination]

This seems important...

 

 

 

That's great for the players, but it sure doesn't give the teams much time to pull it off given the current market.

[Grant77]

That's great for the players, but it sure doesn't give the teams much time to pull it off given the current market.

 

There's no shortage of housing if they pony up enough money to make it happen.

[Krylian]

That's great for the players, but it sure doesn't give the teams much time to pull it off given the current market.

 

Just because we've only found out now, doesn't mean teams haven't been aware for a long time that this was coming and to plan accordingly.

[Spanky99]

Funny thing is, I thought they already been housing these kids.

[Abomination]

Funny thing is, I thought they already been housing these kids.

 

I think the Jays were at least in Dunedin.