Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[glory]

The plan won't be to compete next season

 

Please analyze this statement

 

The team will have no illusions of competing next season. I don't think that's a wrong statement. It may not be as blatant/annoying as 2019, but likely more of the same focus on development and giving fringey younger players playing time to see if they can be long term pieces. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that seems to be the direction.

 

Now if young players overachieve/develop quickly, there is some luck involved, and so on, then maybe it happens organically, but holding on to Giles when they already essentially traded him when he was hurt and when he only has a year of control left on a rebuilding team seems very unlikely. I highly doubt Shatkins views 2020 as anything other than an extension of 2019, except possibly with emphasis on developing the rotation (whereas 2019 was developing the position player side).

[Boxcar]

The team will have no illusions of competing next season. I don't think that's a wrong statement. It may not be as blatant/annoying as 2019, but likely more of the same focus on development and giving fringey younger players playing time to see if they can be long term pieces. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that seems to be the direction.

 

Now if young players overachieve/develop quickly, there is some luck involved, and so on, then maybe it happens organically, but holding on to Giles when they already essentially traded him when he was hurt and when he only has a year of control left on a rebuilding team seems very unlikely. I highly doubt Shatkins views 2020 as anything other than an extension of 2019, except possibly with emphasis on developing the rotation (whereas 2019 was developing the position player side).

 

I don't think there's any chance in hell the Blue Jays go into next season without the goal of competing.

 

Like, almost all of their top prospect capital is ML ready. What the hell would we be waiting for? Big Sim? Pardinho? El Capitan? Orelvis Martinez?

 

You can try to compete while still having prospects.

 

Guys like Big Murph, Joey Murray, Big Nate, Anthony Kay, TJ Zoinks, etc are all just about big league ready. I am slowly getting very tired of the "let's only try to compete when we have a 100 win team" crowd.

 

You know who's making the playoffs this year after some good pitching acquisitions on FA and prospect graduations? The TWINS. If we're honestly just resigning ourselves to the gutter for reasons as you suggest, I sure hope Atkins gets replaced because it's unacceptable.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Boxcar

[Spanky__99]

I don't think there's any chance in hell the Blue Jays go into next season without the goal of competing.

 

Like, almost all of their top prospect capital is ML ready. What the hell would we be waiting for? Big Sim? Pardinho? El Capitan? Orelvis Martinez?

 

You can try to compete while still having prospects.

 

Guys like Big Murph, Joey Murray, Big Nate, Anthony Kay, TJ Zoinks, etc are all just about big league ready. I am slowly getting very tired of the "let's only try to compete when we have a 100 win team" crowd.

 

You know who's making the playoffs this year after some good pitching acquisitions on FA and prospect graduations? The TWINS. If we're honestly just resigning ourselves to the gutter for reasons as you suggest, I sure hope Atkins gets replaced because it's unacceptable.

 

Bravo! *golf claps*

[saskjayfan]

I don't think there's any chance in hell the Blue Jays go into next season without the goal of competing.

 

Like, almost all of their top prospect capital is ML ready. What the hell would we be waiting for? Big Sim? Pardinho? El Capitan? Orelvis Martinez?

 

You can try to compete while still having prospects.

 

Guys like Big Murph, Joey Murray, Big Nate, Anthony Kay, TJ Zoinks, etc are all just about big league ready. I am slowly getting very tired of the "let's only try to compete when we have a 100 win team" crowd.

 

You know who's making the playoffs this year after some good pitching acquisitions on FA and prospect graduations? The TWINS. If we're honestly just resigning ourselves to the gutter for reasons as you suggest, I sure hope Atkins gets replaced because it's unacceptable.

 

Well that's an interesting take. Who do you think they will target in free agency?

[Boxcar]

Well that's an interesting take. Who do you think they will target in free agency?

 

There are soooooooooooooooooo many Lance Lynn/Jake Odorizzi types in FA. I would chase Cole, but Tanner Roark would be a good get, so would Zack Wheeler, Cole Hamels, Jake Odorizzi, Stephen Strasburg may opt out, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Rich Hill, Wade Miley, Kyle Gibson, Michael Pineda, Yu Darvish may opt out, Dallas Keuchel, Rick Porcello

 

I mean, that is a plethora of affordable pitching.

[saskjayfan]

There are soooooooooooooooooo many Lance Lynn/Jake Odorizzi types in FA. I would chase Cole, but Tanner Roark would be a good get, so would Zack Wheeler, Cole Hamels, Jake Odorizzi, Stephen Strasburg may opt out, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Rich Hill, Wade Miley, Kyle Gibson, Michael Pineda, Yu Darvish may opt out, Dallas Keuchel, Rick Porcello

 

I mean, that is a plethora of affordable pitching.

 

fair enough. I agree. We'll see what happens in the off season.

 

ps...Alford might not suck.

[glory]

I don't think there's any chance in hell the Blue Jays go into next season without the goal of competing.

 

Like, almost all of their top prospect capital is ML ready. What the hell would we be waiting for? Big Sim? Pardinho? El Capitan? Orelvis Martinez?

 

You can try to compete while still having prospects.

 

Guys like Big Murph, Joey Murray, Big Nate, Anthony Kay, TJ Zoinks, etc are all just about big league ready. I am slowly getting very tired of the "let's only try to compete when we have a 100 win team" crowd.

 

You know who's making the playoffs this year after some good pitching acquisitions on FA and prospect graduations? The TWINS. If we're honestly just resigning ourselves to the gutter for reasons as you suggest, I sure hope Atkins gets replaced because it's unacceptable.

 

The Twins are 32-13 against the White Sox, Tigers, and Royals. So 30% of their games have been against those three teams so far. Their last 12 games of the season are also against those three teams. The Jays don't have that luxury. They have one historically bad team in their division, not two and a half.

 

I actually agree that we should try to add good established players wherever we can for next season, especially in the rotation (and CF), but do you really think Shatkins is going to do that? They have given no indication that they are done rebuilding, and the team isn't exactly showing signs of being a few pieces away.

 

My guess is Shatkins will try to field a contender in 2021. I'd be shocked if they gave any effort to do so in 2020. More likely they will use 2020 to give Pearson, Kay, Zoinks, Thornton, Hatch, Merryweather, Murphy, and the truckload of SP candidates on the 40 man roster a chance to see if 2-3-4 of them can stick.

 

Unfortunately I think another factor is Rogers and whether they want to increase payroll next season. I'm not sure what their situation is as I don't follow them or hockey, but I've heard about a bad hockey deal they made multiple times, and that could factor in as well.

[Boxcar]

fair enough. I agree. We'll see what happens in the off season.

 

ps...Alford might not suck.

 

On the contrary, Alford sucking s*** is pretty much the only thing we can count on

[Orgfiller]

The Twins are 32-13 against the White Sox, Tigers, and Royals. So 30% of their games have been against those three teams so far. Their last 12 games of the season are also against those three teams. The Jays don't have that luxury. They have one historically bad team in their division, not two and a half.

 

I actually agree that we should try to add good established players wherever we can for next season, especially in the rotation (and CF), but do you really think Shatkins is going to do that? They have given no indication that they are done rebuilding, and the team isn't exactly showing signs of being a few pieces away.

 

My guess is Shatkins will try to field a contender in 2021. I'd be shocked if they gave any effort to do so in 2020. More likely they will use 2020 to give Pearson, Kay, Zoinks, Thornton, Hatch, Merryweather, Murphy, and the truckload of SP candidates on the 40 man roster a chance to see if 2-3-4 of them can stick.

 

Unfortunately I think another factor is Rogers and whether they want to increase payroll next season. I'm not sure what their situation is as I don't follow them or hockey, but I've heard about a bad hockey deal they made multiple times, and that could factor in as well.

 

This is cherry picking. Yes, the AL Central is and has historically been a weaker division, but it's disingenuous to discredit the Twins' success over it. The Twins are 20-12 against the AL East and 23-11 against the AL West. The Yankees on the other hand are 52-19 against the East, of which they've shat on the Orioles and Jays, two awful teams, and then they're 18-15 against the ALC and only 16-11 vs. the ALW, divisions that the Twins dominated, so what gives? The Twins are genuinely a good team and as Boxcar has pointed out, it's in large part through an excellent offseason where they extended their young core and made great FA additions, all you need after that is a bit of luck to break your way and suddenly you're a contender.

[glory]

This is cherry picking. Yes, the AL Central is and has historically been a weaker division, but it's disingenuous to discredit the Twins' success over it. The Twins are 20-12 against the AL East and 23-11 against the AL West. The Yankees on the other hand are 52-19 against the East, of which they've shat on the Orioles and Jays, two awful teams, and then they're 18-15 against the ALC and only 16-11 vs. the ALW, divisions that the Twins dominated, so what gives? The Twins are genuinely a good team and as Boxcar has pointed out, it's in large part through an excellent offseason where they extended their young core and made great FA additions, all you need after that is a bit of luck to break your way and suddenly you're a contender.

 

I didn't say the Twins are a bad team, but they are in a really, really bad division. The path is easier for them to make the playoffs. If the Jays were in the Central their mindset might be different.

[BTS]

The Twins are 32-13 against the White Sox, Tigers, and Royals. So 30% of their games have been against those three teams so far. Their last 12 games of the season are also against those three teams. The Jays don't have that luxury. They have one historically bad team in their division, not two and a half.

 

I actually agree that we should try to add good established players wherever we can for next season, especially in the rotation (and CF), but do you really think Shatkins is going to do that? They have given no indication that they are done rebuilding, and the team isn't exactly showing signs of being a few pieces away.

 

My guess is Shatkins will try to field a contender in 2021. I'd be shocked if they gave any effort to do so in 2020. More likely they will use 2020 to give Pearson, Kay, Zoinks, Thornton, Hatch, Merryweather, Murphy, and the truckload of SP candidates on the 40 man roster a chance to see if 2-3-4 of them can stick.

 

Unfortunately I think another factor is Rogers and whether they want to increase payroll next season. I'm not sure what their situation is as I don't follow them or hockey, but I've heard about a bad hockey deal they made multiple times, and that could factor in as well.

 

If the Jays punt 2020, it will confirm that Ross Atkins is a beta loser who should be fired immediately. If he even suggests to Mark Shapiro that 2020 will be another non-competitive season, Shapiro should give him an atomic wedgie and send him packing.

[glory]

If the Jays punt 2020, it will confirm that Ross Atkins is a beta loser who should be fired immediately. If he even suggests to Mark Shapiro that 2020 will be another non-competitive season, Shapiro should give him an atomic wedgie and send him packing.

 

Hey I'm with you guys. I think 2019 was insufferable and hope 2020 is not a complete repeat of it. I don't think tanking in baseball is even necessary. But what we want and what Shatkins will do are two different things.

[Bobthe4th]

Hey I'm with you guys. I think 2019 was insufferable and hope 2020 is not a complete repeat of it. I don't think tanking in baseball is even necessary. But what we want and what Shatkins will do are two different things.

 

Yeah anyone who thinks this front office is going to use this offseason to spend millions on top free agents including Cole, are unfortunately deluding themselves. And even if the FO target better players than they did last offseason (which is by no means certain that we don't go dumpster diving again), without acquiring some of the very best players we aren't going to turn from a 95-100 loss team to a 85-90 win team in one year without a miracle.

[Spanky__99]

Yeah anyone who thinks this front office is going to use this offseason to spend millions on top free agents including Cole, are unfortunately deluding themselves. And even if the FO target better players than they did last offseason (which is by no means certain that we don't go dumpster diving again), without acquiring some of the very best players we aren't going to turn from a 95-100 loss team to a 85-90 win team in one year without a miracle.

 

Tell that to the Minnesota's, Atlanta's, Houston's of the world, that's just thinking back this decade.

[Jimcanuck]

Tell that to the Minnesota's, Atlanta's, Houston's of the world, that's just thinking back this decade.

 

Sure ya the bluejays are in the exact same position of these teams before they became contenders. Not really.

 

Said before the bluejays need to make some offseason acquisitions this year to improve the product. But thinking they will be active on the FA market in an effort to turn the team into a 2020 contender is not bloody likely.

[Spanky__99]

Sure ya the bluejays are in the exact same position of these teams before they became contenders. Not really.

 

Said before the bluejays need to make some offseason acquisitions this year to improve the product. But thinking they will be active on the FA market in an effort to turn the team into a 2020 contender is not bloody likely.

 

I didn't bloody say that, did I? It's certainly possible.

[Jonn]

Next season is going to suck as well. People are getting themselves up for a let down if they think otherwise. I think they will spend as little money as they possibly can and focus on short term deals for a veteran starters and relievers to fill out spots and trade them at the deadline. I can see them bringing back someone like Edwin Encarnacion to be a veteran for the younger players and finish his career with the Jays. Also fills a need a 1B/DH. I would love to see them bring in a bring in a veteran Outfielder that actually gets on base. But that’s unlikely with the current glut of them on the 40-man.

 

The team will be basically be the team we have now supplemented by a couple veteran starters and relievers mostly:

[Jimcanuck]

I didn't bloody say that, did I? It's certainly possible.

 

Certainly implied. Blue Jay's have never had a farm equivalent to the Braves of a few years ago or the Astros of a few years prior. Twins are just a good team on a different part of the win cycle.

[Spanky__99]

Certainly implied. Blue Jay's have never had a farm equivalent to the Braves of a few years ago or the Astros of a few years prior. Twins are just a good team on a different part of the win cycle.

 

[Jimcanuck]

Next season is going to suck as well. People are getting themselves up for a let down if they think otherwise. I think they will spend as little money as they possibly can and focus on short term deals for a veteran starters and relievers to fill out spots and trade them at the deadline. I can see them bringing back someone like Edwin Encarnacion to be a veteran for the younger players and finish his career with the Jays. Also fills a need a 1B/DH. I would love to see them bring in a bring in a veteran Outfielder that actually gets on base. But that’s unlikely with the current glut of them on the 40-man.

 

The team will be basically be the team we have now supplemented by a couple veteran starters and relievers mostly:

 

I can see the Jay's hitting .500 next season. Not going to be as bad as this year.

[Spanky__99]

I can see the Jay's hitting .500 next season. Not going to be as bad as this year.

 

As is? Not bloody likely!

[Jimcanuck]

As is? Not bloody likely!

 

Agreed. As per my post of a few minutes ago, expect some FA to improve the product.

[Spanky__99]

Agreed. As per my post of a few minutes ago, expect some FA to improve the product.

 

As is certainly was implied, as per my post a few minutes ago, it's all conjecture, why don't we see what they do first, meat.

[Jimcanuck]

Certainly was implied, why don't we see what they do first, meat.

 

Yes let's do that, fatso.

[Jonn]

I can see the Jay's hitting .500 next season. Not going to be as bad as this year.

 

A lot of s*** would have to go right for that to be a reality. I hope it happens but I’m not holding my breath. I have zero expectations.

[BTS]

Yeah anyone who thinks this front office is going to use this offseason to spend millions on top free agents including Cole, are unfortunately deluding themselves. And even if the FO target better players than they did last offseason (which is by no means certain that we don't go dumpster diving again), without acquiring some of the very best players we aren't going to turn from a 95-100 loss team to a 85-90 win team in one year without a miracle.

 

Sure ya the bluejays are in the exact same position of these teams before they became contenders. Not really.

 

Said before the bluejays need to make some offseason acquisitions this year to improve the product. But thinking they will be active on the FA market in an effort to turn the team into a 2020 contender is not bloody likely.

 

Literally nobody has said they think the Blue Jays will be actively pursuing top FAs this offseason. They're saying they think the Blue Jays should be actively pursuing top FAs this offseason.

[Jimcanuck]

A lot of s*** would have to go right for that to be a reality. I hope it happens but I’m not holding my breath. I have zero expectations.

 

Good approach. Better than spanky and boxy and others bringing up the idea of Jay's as 2020 contenders.

[Spanky__99]

Yes let's do that, fatso.

 

Settle down, homer, remember I know what you look like, lol.

[Jonn]

Settle down, homer, remember I know what you look like, lol.

 

Can you guys just f*** already and get it over with God Damn.

[Jimcanuck]

Literally nobody has said they think the Blue Jays will be actively pursuing top FAs this offseason. They're saying they think the Blue Jays should be actively pursuing top FAs this offseason.

 

A very subtle distinction.