Is Price leading the Cy Young race?

[G-Snarls]

Actually, Price's ERA and BB/K are both significantly better than Keuchel's

[G-Snarls]

Hmmmmm

 

How often does a team have both the league Cy Young Winner and the MVP (2 separate players, not a pitcher winning both)

 

That seems like a rare thing. And it could happen here.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Hmmmmm

 

How often does a team have both the league Cy Young Winner and the MVP (2 separate players, not a pitcher winning both)

 

That seems like a rare thing. And it could happen here.

 

It happened in 2005 and 2006 I believe.

 

2005: Chris Carpenter and Pujols

2006: Morneau and Santana

 

It hasn't been THAT uncommon, but certainly would be pretty cool.

[EMK19]

Hmmmmm

 

How often does a team have both the league Cy Young Winner and the MVP (2 separate players, not a pitcher winning both)

 

That seems like a rare thing. And it could happen here.

 

Bonds and Drabek I think did so in 1990.

 

One thing I do wonder is if just that label of "Cy Young Winner 2015" would further increase his asking price as a FA... Of course he's won it before and even if he doesn't win it he's still going to get tons of money, but I do wonder if it'll play into it at all.

[reedjohnsonfan]

1984 was the last year that a pitcher got traded midseason and won the Cy Young. Also it was the last year a player was traded in the prior offseason and went on to win the MVP the same season (I think, could be missing someone).

[jaysblue]

It happened in 2005 and 2006 I believe.

 

2005: Chris Carpenter and Pujols

2006: Morneau and Santana

 

It hasn't been THAT uncommon, but certainly would be pretty cool.

 

Halladay won the Cy in 2003 and Delgado almost won the MVP that year (he came second to A-Rod).

[Dick_Pole]

1984 was the last year that a pitcher got traded midseason and won the Cy Young. Also it was the last year a player was traded in the prior offseason and went on to win the MVP the same season (I think, could be missing someone).

 

Players getting traded are at a disadvantage if they are traded mid-season to another league. As a whole you might be the best player, but breaking it down by each league you don't stand a chance. Mark McGwire's 1997 season is the first one that comes to mind. He wouldn't have won MVP in either league that year, but would have been a reasonable top 5 candidate in either league had he spent the full year in either.

 

Sutcliffe was actually kind of lucky because his suckage to start the season all came in the AL and voters deemed his final 2/3 season in the NL to be good enough.

[youngtea]

Players getting traded are at a disadvantage if they are traded mid-season to another league. As a whole you might be the best player, but breaking it down by each league you don't stand a chance. Mark McGwire's 1997 season is the first one that comes to mind. He wouldn't have won MVP in either league that year, but would have been a reasonable top 5 candidate in either league had he spent the full year in either.

 

Sutcliffe was actually kind of lucky because his suckage to start the season all came in the AL and voters deemed his final 2/3 season in the NL to be good enough.

 

 

Agree. Unless he gets a no-no one in the next 3 games the chances of him winning it are low.

[Dick_Pole]

Halladay won the Cy in 2003 and Delgado almost won the MVP that year (he came second to A-Rod).

 

2003....now that was an interesting season...Delgado and Halladay rake and the Jays had nothing to show for it...and people complain about the depth of the Jays and tendency to give PA's to replacement level players under AA's tenure. We saw what happened the year after that.

[Dick_Pole]

Agree. Unless he gets a no-no one in the next 3 games the chances of him winning it are low.

 

...except that Price was traded within the same league so all his stats are under consideration for 2015.

[43211234]

Hopefully Price wins, just because that would be fun.

 

 

Keuchel is soooo good though. Elite defense and groundball numbers, plus great K and BB rates. A true ace this year.

[Spanky99]

Hopefully Price wins, just because that would be fun.

 

 

Keuchel is soooo good though. Elite defense and groundball numbers, plus great K and BB rates. A true ace this year.

 

Yeah, it's a two man race, will be interesting. All comes down to there last 3 starts.

[Spanky99]

It happened in 2005 and 2006 I believe.

 

2005: Chris Carpenter and Pujols

2006: Morneau and Santana

 

It hasn't been THAT uncommon, but certainly would be pretty cool.

 

Beat me to it...*shakes fist*

[jaysblue]

2003....now that was an interesting season...Delgado and Halladay rake and the Jays had nothing to show for it...and people complain about the depth of the Jays and tendency to give PA's to replacement level players under AA's tenure. We saw what happened the year after that.

 

2003 was a fun season, which was frustrating at times. They had no pitching after Halladay, until they moved Kelvim Escobar to the rotation. Cory Lidle was a huge disappointment in his only season with Toronto, Mark Hendrickson made 30 starts for them and was awful. They ran out guys like Tanyon Sturtze, Corey Thurman, Doug Davis, Pete Walker, John Wasdin in the rotation. Josh Towers pitched well for them in his first stint with the Jays that season going 6-1 in 8 starts. Additionally, the bullpen was a huge mess for the entire season. Aquilino Lopez was their best reliever that season lol.

 

The lineup was one of the best in baseball that season I remember. Both Delgado and Wells had huge years, and they got solid production out of their supporting cast of players like Frank Catalanotto, Mike Bordick, Greg Myers, Reed Johnson etc. Phelps never followed up on his hype from 2002, though he still posted a .268/.358/.470 slash line and people were still high on him heading into 2004. Hinske had an awful sophomore season, though he did manage to hit 45 doubles that season, which did provide a bit of hope for him to rebound in 2004, though we all know happened haha.

[Captain Adama]

2003 was a fun season, which was frustrating at times. They had no pitching after Halladay, until they moved Kelvim Escobar to the rotation. Cory Lidle was a huge disappointment in his only season with Toronto, Mark Hendrickson made 30 starts for them and was awful. They ran out guys like Tanyon Sturtze, Corey Thurman, Doug Davis, Pete Walker, John Wasdin in the rotation. Josh Towers pitched well for them in his first stint with the Jays that season going 6-1 in 8 starts. Additionally, the bullpen was a huge mess for the entire season. Aquilino Lopez was their best reliever that season lol.

 

The lineup was one of the best in baseball that season I remember. Both Delgado and Wells had huge years, and they got solid production out of their supporting cast of players like Frank Catalanotto, Mike Bordick, Greg Myers, Reed Johnson etc. Phelps never followed up on his hype from 2002, though he still posted a .268/.358/.470 slash line and people were still high on him heading into 2004. Hinske had an awful sophomore season, though he did manage to hit 45 doubles that season, which did provide a bit of hope for him to rebound in 2004, though we all know happened haha.

 

That month of May was magic.

[BigCecil]

The 2010 Rangers had the MLB-best pitcher and hitter by fWAR. Josh Hamilton at 8.4 and Cliff Lee racking up 7.0 after starting the year with the Mariners (and being flipped for Justin Smoak). But Lee didn't win Cy Young -- that was the strange year when everyone decided that Felix Hernandez's lack of wins shouldn't stand in the way of his candidacy (despite Lee and Verlander being just as good if not better).

 

Price has a good case. I don't think it's clear-cut in any direction right now.

 

The year Halladay won CY over Esteban Loiza....beyond the old school numbers should the Doc have won it?

[jaysblue]

The year Halladay won CY over Esteban Loiza....beyond the old school numbers should the Doc have won it?

 

He pitched 266 innings along with 9 CG and posted a 7 WAR season. His K/9 though was 6.90 which is very low in comparison to guys like Sale & Kershaw today, though Doc was never a huge strikeout guy to begin with. He still managed 204 K's that season, along with a 3.25 ERA and 2.96 xFIP. Halladay had an awful April if I recall. From May 1st to the end of the season he went 22-5 in 30 starts, pitching 227.1 innings, and posting a 2.97 ERA and 2.84 xFIP.

 

Loaiza had a pretty similar season, posting a 6.9 WAR. Had 21 wins vs. Halladay's 22 (not sure that would have made a difference between the voters). Though he had a much better K/9 rate of 8.23 and a 2.90 ERA though a higher xFIP of 3.34 and pitched 226.1 innings which were 40 less than Doc. Though fascinating how in less innings, Loaiza was just -0.1 WAR less than Doc. There can be a debate who should have won the AL Cy Young Award that season.

[jaysblue]

Price's numbers are better than Dallas Keuchell across the board especially after last night. Plus the Astors might be plummeting right out of a playoff spot while we have both taken the Wild Card lead and Division Lead with Price. I know that's not suppose to matter but it does. For me for the longest time the front runner was Chris Sale but I would think unless Price gets lit up down the stretch I think he should win and will win.

 

Both Price and Sale have produced the same WAR thus far. Sale leads in K/9, and xFIP, whereas Price has the advantage in ERA, wins, and innings pitched. I think the Cy Young Award race will be between DK and Price at the end of the day. The voters won't give Sale much love.

[jaysblue]

The year Halladay won CY over Esteban Loiza....beyond the old school numbers should the Doc have won it?

 

Also, Mark Prior should have won the NL Cy Young Award over Eric Gagne in 2003. What an awful decision. Mark Prior was the best pitcher in baseball that season.

[jaysblue]

The voting results for the NL Cy Young Award in 2003 were a joke lol. Prior actually finished third in voting wow!

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2003.shtml

[reedjohnsonfan]

Also, Mark Prior should have won the NL Cy Young Award over Eric Gagne in 2003. What an awful decision. Mark Prior was the best pitcher in baseball that season.

 

Gagne was 55/55 in save chances that year and people in the media went far enough to debate him winning the Lou Marsh award over Mike Weir when he won at Augusta. f***ing ridiculous. I didn't realize Prior did that as a 22 year old, could've been something really special.

[jaysblue]

Gagne was 55/55 in save chances that year and people in the media went far enough to debate him winning the Lou Marsh award over Mike Weir when he won at Augusta. f***ing ridiculous. I didn't realize Prior did that as a 22 year old, could've been something really special.

 

Prior had some of the best pure stuff I've ever seen from a pitcher. He could've been something really special if he stayed healthy. Him and Wood in 2003 were such a sick 1-2 punch.

[TheHurl]

The voting results for the NL Cy Young Award in 2003 were a joke lol. Prior actually finished third in voting wow!

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2003.shtml

 

A 4.5 win reliever is pretty freaking special though. Not saying that Prior didn't deserve it, but in a third of the innings Gagne had the leagues 8th best fWAR out of all pitchers.

[Atothe]

Halladay and Delgado deserved better

[reedjohnsonfan]

So he's 3-0 vs the Yankees in 4 starts and could be 4-0 if it wasn't for Sanchez on August 14th. Keuchel gave up 9 runs in a huge game vs Texas but rebounded on Monday. If he struggles vs Texas again on Sunday you'd think Price should be the clear cut favourite!

[G-Snarls]

So he's 3-0 vs the Yankees in 4 starts and could be 4-0 if it wasn't for Sanchez on August 14th. Keuchel gave up 9 runs in a huge game vs Texas but rebounded on Monday. If he struggles vs Texas again on Sunday you'd think Price should be the clear cut favourite!

 

Yes, because these voters often very much feel like what you did "down the stretch" and in "big games" holds more value

[G-Snarls]

FWIW, Price couldn't have been any better in the "big games" he's pitched for us so far

[reedjohnsonfan]

Yes, because these voters often very much feel like what you did "down the stretch" and in "big games" holds more value

 

I just meant he should be the favourite regardless of "big games". Although if I were a voter, I'd take that into consideration.

[G-Snarls]

Why could he not have? 15 runs is more than zero. They've lost two of his starts.

 

Couldn't have been MUCH better

 

Yes it was hyperbole

[G-Snarls]

I just meant he should be the favourite regardless of "big games". Although if I were a voter, I'd take that into consideration.

 

TBH I probably would to

 

It's very hard not to if two players are so close like this

 

You need SOMETHING to break the tie