AL MVP....Donaldson or Trout???

[Orgfiller]

I meant as a true top tier MVP caliber player, at least compared to Trout at least who had come in to the season as the reigning MVP (and coming up just short three times before that). Donaldson's last two seasons in Oakland were nice but not quite up to that level.

 

Donaldson the last two seasons was worth 7.6 and 6.5 WAR. Those are both MVP caliber seasons in any given year.

[THANOS]

I think it will be Donaldson in a landslide, and it probably should be.

 

Hope you're right.

 

I'd be pretty pissed if the voters choose this year to do away with the playoff bump and give the award to Trout.

 

Yeah that would be upsetting, but JD playing for Toronto may hurt his chances as well.

[JFD]

I'd be pretty pissed if the voters choose this year to do away with the playoff bump and give the award to Trout.

 

that's not gonna happen. Blue Jays first playoff birth in 22 years.

[Daniel Labude]

I think this may be the only reason JD wins it. He's had an inferior year to Trout in nearly all important categories, except defensive WAR and clutch hits, but who knows really? It could go either way.

 

Trout was inferior in major categories. All depends what you go on. RBIS not close, Runs not close, HR (Tie), avg (tie), OPS (Trout by 0.4), WAR (Trout by 0.2). Basically it was a dead heat except runs and RBIs Trout got demolished on.

[Captain Adama]

Trout was inferior in major categories. All depends what you go on. RBIS not close, Runs not close, HR (Tie), avg (tie), OPS (Trout by 0.4), WAR (Trout by 0.2). Basically it was a dead heat except runs and RBIs Trout got demolished on.

 

So by the two metrics that the batter has less control over?

[EMK19]

Donaldson the last two seasons was worth 7.6 and 6.5 WAR. Those are both MVP caliber seasons in any given year.

 

Well, that in the end just goes to support the fact that there's more to how they vote for the MVP than the sabremetric stats, which should work more in his favor this year. He finished 4th and 8th in voting in those years IIRC. I'm not discrediting JD here in saying that he was a nobody before this year (I admit I used the word "breakout" way too loosely there), he had obviously established himself, but he's definitely taken it to the next level this year where he's gotten himself in the mix as the CLEAR top two candidate to the eyes of pretty much anyone.

[Stangstag]

So by the two metrics that the batter has less control over?

 

Remember who's voting here

[BTS]

I don't think you can make a convincing argument that Donaldson was better than Trout. They're a wash statistically. You can carve it up a bunch of different ways, and they're a wash. The deciding factors for me are that a) Trout has won before, and the Angels are going home and Donaldson just carried the Jays on his back to their first playoff berth in 22 years. I wouldn't usually factor in either, but I don't think you can choose one of them as the better player this year.

[thatoneguy]

I'd be pretty pissed if the voters choose this year to do away with the playoff bump and give the award to Trout.

 

I could see it based on the fact that Trout hasn't had the same support that JD has in the lineup (aside from Pujols) and yet still managed to nearly get his team into the post-season. That said, if the Jays didn't have Donaldson in the first half, they almost assuredly wouldn't be in a playoff position let alone AL East champions right now (he was perhaps the biggest reason in keeping the team around .500 with his all-around play).

[Cyborg]

I don't think you can make a convincing argument that Donaldson was better than Trout. They're a wash statistically. You can carve it up a bunch of different ways, and they're a wash. The deciding factors for me are that a) Trout has won before, and the Angels are going home and Donaldson just carried the Jays on his back to their first playoff berth in 22 years. I wouldn't usually factor in either, but I don't think you can choose one of them as the better player this year.

Remember this?

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/3793-Offseason-roster-thread-2014?p=431576&viewfull=1#post431576

[BTS]

Remember this?

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/3793-Offseason-roster-thread-2014?p=431576&viewfull=1#post431576

 

Nope. It's so crazy that the deal happened with Stroman not included.

 

Wow, a lot of people thought that was a huge overpay.

[baubau]

Nope. It's so crazy that the deal happened with Stroman not included.

 

Wow, a lot of people thought that was a huge overpay.

 

It was. You put in 2 guys that didn't need to be there and we got him for less. Don't apply to be GM BTS. /sarcasm

[Nabru]

Remember this?

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/3793-Offseason-roster-thread-2014?p=431576&viewfull=1#post431576

 

I wonder what happened to F. Torres.

[Krylian]

I think it will be Donaldson in a landslide, and it probably should be.

 

Don't think it'll be a landslide.

[THANOS]

Don't think it'll be a landslide.

 

Do the voters really still place any stock in RBI's and Runs? If they do, then it could be.

[Krylian]

Do the voters really still place any stock in RBI's and Runs? If they do, then it could be.

 

Some do. Some are slowly changing with the times I think.

 

But more than anything, as a Jays fan I don't expect anything to come easily...so I'm expecting a tighter vote than many would anticipate.

[labadee]

Angels missing the playoffs will weigh in on some of the voters.

[Mozzer]

I think it will be Donaldson in a landslide, and it probably should be.

 

I think it should be, and hopefully it will, but there is a massive collective erection from the American media towards Trout. I think it will be close, thankfully the Angels didn't make the playoffs - that has to be a difference maker

[Maahfaace]

Nope. It's so crazy that the deal happened with Stroman not included.

 

Wow, a lot of people thought that was a huge overpay.

 

It really is crazy what the jays got Donaldson for.....what a trade!

[THANOS]

Here's a thought, what do you guys project Donaldson's 2016 to look like? I think his BABIP being less than .020 points higher than his average could mean something positive for his projectability?

[Stangstag]

Here's a thought, what do you guys project Donaldson's 2016 to look like? I think his BABIP being less than .020 points higher than his average could mean something positive for his projectability?

 

.280 avg, 32 homers, around a 135 wRC+

[Brownie19]

Trout was inferior in major categories. All depends what you go on. RBIS not close, Runs not close, HR (Tie), avg (tie), OPS (Trout by 0.4), WAR (Trout by 0.2). Basically it was a dead heat except runs and RBIs Trout got demolished on.

 

Trout crushed Donaldson in wRC+ (172 to 154), 0.2 higher WAR, higher wOBA, OBP & SLG.

 

Trout was a better hitter (by quite a bit) and overall player (by a slim margin) than Donaldson this year. He loses out on 2 stats which are highly dependant on his team and his hitting environment (note Trout and Donaldson hit .352 and .353 with RISP this year - so Donaldson doesn't get more RBI's by being "clutch").

 

That said - I think Donaldson will win because voters are swayed by things like counting stats and team success.....that is unless the voters decide Trout can't finish 2nd in the MVP voting for a 3rd time (which is stupid, but some are suggesting it).

[Markus2222]

Not to discount anything Trout has done this season but I think the season Donaldson had is amazing. He's been clutch offensively and defensively and we may not have made the playoffs if we still had a guy like Lawrie at third. I'm biased though and I also put more stock in having a star at 3B than in CF. I'd be surprised if Trout wins.

[Angrioter]

Trout was better.

[Joe Shades]

If your team does not make the playoffs then how can you be most valuable?

[Krylian]

Not to discount anything Trout has done this season but I think the season Donaldson had is amazing. He's been clutch offensively and defensively and we may not have made the playoffs if we still had a guy like Lawrie at third. I'm biased though and I also put more stock in having a star at 3B than in CF. I'd be surprised if Trout wins.

 

Not to take anything away from Donaldson, but I'd take elite in CF over 3B. It's just the way I personally value the positions.

[Angrioter]

If your team does not make the playoffs then how can you be most valuable?

 

What?

We are talking about the most valuable player, not the most winning team.

 

Harper - Trout/Donaldson

[Krylian]

Here's the problem. MVP is the wrong name for the award... Cause what does it really mean? If your team stinks but you've had a remarkable season, some will hold it against you that your team didn't win, yet the numbers show you've done everything you can to help.

 

The name of the award should really be Most Outstanding Player. Pure stats. Take team wins out of it... Just like team wins are meaningless in assessing a pitchers season.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Krylian

[Joe Shades]

I just don't agree with giving an MVP award to member of a team that did not make the playoffs

[BTS]

I just don't agree with giving an MVP award to member of a team that did not make the playoffs

 

What if the player had a 12-win season and the second best guy finished at like 6.5?