GDT Rays @ Jays July 17

[RealAccountant]

I wish sabermatics was never invented.

[intentional wok]

My favourite part of this game was when JD took a dump on small ball. Too bad Reyes was asked to get himself out; JD could have had a chance to knock in three! It was made better by the part when Buck and Pat called the sac bunt the thing that "got everything started".

[Frenchsoup]

My favourite part of this game was when JD took a dump on small ball. Too bad Reyes was asked to get himself out; JD could have had a chance to knock in three! It was made better by the part when Buck and Pat called the sac bunt the thing that "got everything started".

 

it looked like he was bunting for a hit

[BlueBirdBro]

It surprises me that while only being 4.5 games back with what, 70 games to go? We're toast? Jesus guys.

[nextyear]

My favourite part of this game was when JD took a dump on small ball. Too bad Reyes was asked to get himself out; JD could have had a chance to knock in three! It was made better by the part when Buck and Pat called the sac bunt the thing that "got everything started".

 

 

It is just as possible that Jose Reyes would have hit into a double play and there would have been two out and no one on base.

 

Things would have unfolded differently if Reyes hadn't bunted but it may not be the way you assume. Even if Reyes did get one base with a hit then everything changes, the pitches to Donaldson wouldn't have been exactly the same and he might not have even hit a home run.

[Deadpool]

It is just as possible that Jose Reyes would have hit into a double play and there would have been two out and no one on base.

 

Things would have unfolded differently if Reyes hadn't bunted but it may not be the way you assume. Even if Reyes did get one base with a hit then everything changes, the pitches to Donaldson wouldn't have been exactly the same and he might not have even hit a home run.

 

Bunting is dumb, regardless.

[jaysfan2014]

It surprises me that while only being 4.5 games back with what, 70 games to go? We're toast? Jesus guys.

 

Most of those fans want us to blow the farm on rentals like Cueto, Hamels, etc.. it doesn't work that way. Ownership is trying to build a sustainable contender and avoid wrecking the team's future.. don't want to end up like Detroit or Philly.

 

And that 4.5 game deficit(4.0 in the wild card) can be wiped out quickly when the Jays play the Yankees, Twins and Angels in the next month. Of course, we could've gained ground last night if the Red Sox had been able to muster a run.. and not let Mike Trout walk off on them.

[intentional wok]

Things would have unfolded differently if Reyes hadn't bunted but it may not be the way you assume. Even if Reyes did get one base with a hit then everything changes, the pitches to Donaldson wouldn't have been exactly the same and he might not have even hit a home run.

 

No no, I agree. It just made me laugh. Busting their asses to get a single run across the board, but then a home run comes in for the overkill (and then another one three batters later). And yeah, Reyes was a step away from a hit anyway.

 

Buck and Pat's comment is still off the mark, though.

[RealAccountant]

^ Detroit has a better record than us and more likely to make the playoffs than the Jays

[nextyear]

Bunting is dumb, regardless.

 

 

Luckily the Blue Jays management isn't totally against sac flies and bunts such as some fans are.

[intentional wok]

^ A bunt is far more of a concession than a sac fly is.

 

Colabello's sac fly yesterday, for instance, was 10 feet from being a home run. A sac fly is a legit attempt at driving a runner in. A sac bunt is conceding a whole third of your inning to move a runner to another base. Huge difference in intent, execution, and result. A sac fly and a searing line drive are inches/milliseconds of timing apart, and something a batter can't really control. A bunt requires a deliberate stance, which the defense is probably already prepared for, and, at most, earns you a single base.

[jaysfan2014]

So the yankees that have a pitching staff held together with chicken wire, aging players, and arod that is over 40 and not likely to maintain his pace, are shoo ins, but the Jays have no chance?

 

Does anyone on this board ever have a positive thought?

 

One thing to also consider--the Yanks have to play the Twins next weekend and in August, a team we are chasing. We can pick up ground on either of those teams, depending who wins. Right now, only Detroit, LA/HOU and Minnesota are ahead of us in the wild card. And of course, we're tied for 2nd behind the Yankees.

[jaysfan2014]

^ Detroit has a better record than us and more likely to make the playoffs than the Jays

 

Go away. No Miguel Cabrera, and a terrible pitching staff, plus the Royals/Twins in their division? They're not making it.

[nextyear]

^ A bunt is far more of a concession than a sac fly is.

 

Colabello's sac fly yesterday, for instance, was 10 feet from being a home run. A sac fly is a legit attempt at driving a runner in. A sac bunt is conceding a whole third of your inning to move a runner to another base. Huge difference in intent, execution, and result. A sac fly and a searing line drive are inches/milliseconds of timing apart, and something a batter can't really control. A bunt requires a deliberate stance, which the defense is probably already prepared for, and, at most, earns you a single base.

 

 

The effect might not be as immediate, but in a tight game against good pitching, the bunt helps a team stay out of a double play and if done with the first out gives them two outs to get a hit and score a run. A bunt can also turn into a hit if it is done with a speedy hitter such as Reyes.

 

I don't think most batters are thinking alike when they hit a line drive and sac fly. For a sac fly the batter knows they just have to get the ball into the air so they aren't swinging for the fences. An intentional sac fly is unlikely to turn into a home run or even a base hit (this is based on BABIP percentage for line drives versus fly balls).

 

I believe both sac flies and bunts are suitable in some situations.

[intentional wok]

Bunts have their purposes, but I'd argue there's no such thing as an intentional sac fly. If a batter can pop one deep enough to tag a runner up, he can pop one for a clean base hit. A sac fly is no different than a regular fly. If a batter is specifically aiming to fly out (not that he can control the defenders, either) then he needs to be re-taught the game he is playing.

[ElNik2013]

Bunts have their purposes, but I'd argue there's no such thing as an intentional sac fly. If a batter can pop one deep enough to tag a runner up, he can pop one for a clean base hit. A sac fly is no different than a regular fly.

 

 

Or why wouldn't the batter just pop one over the fence at will?

 

Or why would they pop one too shallow to score the runner?

[intentional wok]

If a sac fly attempt happens to drop between OFs, did the batter fail?

[nextyear]

If a sac fly attempt happens to drop between OFs, did the batter fail?

 

 

Sometimes a batter can be trying for a hit but get credited with a sac fly and RBI, however, often a hitter will actually control his swing and just try to lift the ball deep enough for a sac fly (it will depend on the hitter and who is running at 3rd base). That is why a sac fly is counted as a plate appearance but not an at-bat.

 

I might be misunderstanding your intention but you seem to think that a player can control bunts but not sac fly's.

[BigCecil]

My favourite part of this game was when JD took a dump on small ball. Too bad Reyes was asked to get himself out; JD could have had a chance to knock in three! It was made better by the part when Buck and Pat called the sac bunt the thing that "got everything started".

 

Heard that. Made me laugh. Just your genuine run of the mill old school derp from B and T.

[reedjohnsonfan]

I'm just using common sense actually. Slim chance.

 

If you're going to take projections as the bible then you could at least wait until after the deadline.

[RealAccountant]

Go away. No Miguel Cabrera, and a terrible pitching staff, plus the Royals/Twins in their division? They're not making it.

 

Detroit has a terrible pitching staff lmao

[RealAccountant]

I'm just confused why Dickey is going today and the best starter won't pitch in the series despite being well rested ?

[jaysfan2014]

Detroit has a terrible pitching staff lmao

 

Have you even watched a Tigers game this season? Team's barely a .500 team because their bullpen is garbage, and the rotation is weak after David Price. I mean, Simon, Greene, and even Anibal Sanchez stink, and Verlander is a shell of what he once was.

[jaysfan2014]

I'm just confused why Dickey is going today and the best starter won't pitch in the series despite being well rested ?

 

It's so that certain starters can be positioned for certain matchups (such as Hutchison getting as few road games as possible.), and so the Jays can decide what to do with the 5th starter role, if they acquire someone or put Sanchez back there.

[intentional wok]

Sometimes a batter can be trying for a hit but get credited with a sac fly and RBI, however, often a hitter will actually control his swing and just try to lift the ball deep enough for a sac fly (it will depend on the hitter and who is running at 3rd base). That is why a sac fly is counted as a plate appearance but not an at-bat.

 

I might be misunderstanding your intention but you seem to think that a player can control bunts but not sac fly's.

 

I'm just not sure what the value of an intentional sacrifice fly is. If you're smacking one into the outfield, aren't you just trying to hit a ball as hard as possible? Is this not what a normal plate appearance should be anyway? The difference is that a bunt is an active deviation from what a hitter is normally trying to do (that is, not swinging at all). There are times and places for bunts, but lifting a ball deep enough for a sac fly is really just a failed home run or a warped line drive. Why settle for less, especially smack in the mid-point of the game?

 

Plus, if it were so easy to just hit to the OF every time, every hitter should be doing it because it automatically negates the six infield defenders ability to make an out. Those balls will eventually drop for doubles at probably no worse a rate than ground balls sneak through the infield for a single.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Have you even watched a Tigers game this season? Team's barely a .500 team because their bullpen is garbage, and the rotation is weak after David Price. I mean, Simon, Greene, and even Anibal Sanchez stink, and Verlander is a shell of what he once was.

 

You know some people believe that bullpen's can fix themselves, but it's hilarious how the Tigers have had bullpen problems for several years now.

[intentional wok]

You know some people believe that bullpen's can fix themselves, but it's hilarious how the Tigers have had bullpen problems for several years now.

 

They've had a pretty significant turnover too, right? Are guys wearing D hats just cursed to be awful in the late innings?

[reedjohnsonfan]

They've had a pretty significant turnover too, right? Are guys wearing D hats just cursed to be awful in the late innings?

 

They've had multiple years relying on old ass pitchers:

 

Todd Jones

Jose Valverde

Joe Nathan

 

They had Rodney for a bit too IIRC before he had his turn around.