Matt Boyd stud thread

[JaysFan75]

In case my point went over your head; none of the internal solutions can be counted on to get Alex out of this mess.

 

ftfy

[BigCecil]

Any rational GM isn't going to put much weight on 2 starts but to say that it doesn't affect the shine on on asset is wishful thinking. Sometimes an assets highest value is attained before they ever throw a pitch in MLB. I'd actually like to see him get another start. He isn't that bad. He isn't our solution though.

[BigCecil]

Yup. We turned Nolin into Donaldson.

 

That's a stretch. I understand the point you are making but Graveman was the arm Beane wanted. And he needed Lawrie @ 3rd. Nolin was an add on piece. A role Boyd may end up playing soon too.

[KingKat]

Is that written in stone somewhere?

 

Does it have to be? The situation looks pretty grim right now. Sanchez is injured and was a shaky option to begin with. Norris seems to have moved backwards. Boyd has been demoted. Doubront and Wolf really aren't performing that well especially for veterans pitching in AAA. There isn't a good rotation option right now beyond the four that are already in it and though those guys are fine, they are hardly dominant. Smokey can be a bit over the top negative but I think his assessment is pretty fair right now.

[GD]

Not really but he does have a fairly limited ceiling and was clearly not ready.

 

I'd say Norris has a pretty high ceiling speaking realistically. #2/3 isn't out of the question and in a realistic view of most prospects not even making it as far as he has, #2/3 type is a very high ceiling.

 

At least he didn't abandon his BBDL team.

 

rt rt rt

[KingKat]

I don't really believe in putting upside labels on pitchers. Most pitching prospects fall into the same gray area and then you have a few elite pitching prospects that stand out. Any of them can become top-of-rotation. Guys like Kluber, DeGrom, Arrieta, Gray, Keuchel, etc. weren't supposed to be aces, it just sort of happened. The pitching prospect who slowly improves and establishes himself after a few years of development is rare. Citing a ceiling and floor for every prospect makes it seem like we know a lot more about them than we actually do.

 

There were reasons to think that Daniel Norris would explode this season. That hasn't happened, but maybe at some point soon it will.

 

I liked my answer fine but this is a better more complete answer. This is why you get paid the big bucks to blog.

[Atothe]

So let me get this straight, our prospects are not good enough but lets trade them for good pitchers? Norris is overrated but hey let's make him the centre piece for Cueto.

[BigCecil]

Does it have to be? The situation looks pretty grim right now. Sanchez is injured and was a shaky option to begin with. Norris seems to have moved backwards. Boyd has been demoted. Doubront and Wolf really aren't performing that well especially for veterans pitching in AAA. There isn't a good rotation option right now beyond the four that are already in it and though those guys are fine, they are hardly dominant. Smokey can be a bit over the top negative but I think his assessment is pretty fair right now.

 

Agree on Norris. We all want him to be better but the BBs in AAA are unsustainable in the bigs with the stuff he has. Sanchez continued to get lucky until he was hurt.

[BigCecil]

So let me get this straight, our prospects are not good enough but lets trade them for good pitchers? Norris is overrated but hey let's make him the centre piece for Cueto.

 

Depends on the other teams situation in terms of how they view our assets. They may be in a rebuild and want to move salary and be willing to take more FV risk on the prospects they get in return than a team trying to W now. Hamels *cough* Hamels

Edited July 3, 2015 by BigCecil

[GD]

That's a stretch. I understand the point you are making but Graveman was the arm Beane wanted. And he needed Lawrie @ 3rd. Nolin was an add on piece. A role Boyd may end up playing soon too.

 

That Barreto kid is ok too

[BigCecil]

It was tongue in cheek.

 

My point is that Boyd will be part of a larger deal for something of significance... Or so I think/hope.

 

Thx. I wasn't sure on the TIC. Agree with you point.

[GD]

Well Kyle Hendricks was thought to be decent. I think Fiers was too.

 

Chris Yeston <3 GREAT PD STATS

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Depends on the other teams situation in terms of how they view our assets. They may be in a rebuild and want to move salary and be willing to take more FV risk on the prospects they get in return than a team trying to W now. Hamels *cough* Hamels

 

Hence why I throw out trade proposals nobody on this board can really with any certainty say it can't happen in the real world,

Vernon wells and JD trades alone back this theory ! If you don't ask you'll never know!

Edited July 3, 2015 by BigBounceyBlueBalls

[TheHurl]

Guys like Kluber, DeGrom, Arrieta, Gray, Keuchel, etc. weren't supposed to be aces, it just sort of happened. The pitching prospect who slowly improves and establishes himself after a few years of development is rare. Citing a ceiling and floor for every prospect makes it seem like we know a lot more about them than we actually do.

 

I love to read the scouting reports on these types of guys for hints towards what was missed. It's a little easier for batters as I know more what I like and what I'd look for (for pitchers "lefty who relies on Control" (See Keuchel) is the type of phrase that hits on these guys a lot.. Here are some of BA's reports on these guys.

 

Ranked San Diego Padres #29 prospect after the 2007 season Premium

After a stress fracture in his throwing arm in high school required surgery and the insertion of a screw that remains in his arm, Kluber developed into a reliable starter for Stetson. The 2007 Atlantic Sun Conference pitcher of the year after going 12-2, 2.05, he signed for $200,000. At 6-foot-4 and 215 pounds, he's an intimidating presence on the mound, and Kluber pounds the zone with three pitches. He pitches at 88-92 mph, touching 94 with above-average life, and he holds his velocity late in outings. His slider and changeup are average at times. Though Kluber lacks a legitimate put-away pitch, he reads swings well and understands how to attack batters. He joined fellow 2007 draftees Cory Luebke and Mitch Canham for Lake Elsinore's playoff run. A return engagement to high Class A to open 2008 isn't out of the question, and Kluber could develop into a No. 4 starter in time.

 

Ranked Cleveland Indians #26 prospect after the 2010 season Premium

The Indians, Cardinals and Padres pulled off a three-way deal at the July 31 trade deadline, with Cleveland sending Jake Westbrook to St. Louis and getting Kluber from San Diego in return. He led the Double-A Texas League with 136 strikeouts despite leaving the circuit after the trade. He racks up whiffs more with his deceptive short-arm delivery than with pure stuff. Kluber does have a solid arsenal of pitches, working mainly off his 88-92 mph fastball and average slider. He also flashes an average changeup and throws strikes. He still needs to refine his command, because he's around the strike zone almost too much and is fairly hittable. He'd durable, having made 82 starts and worked 455 innings in his three full pro seasons. Kluber doesn't have high upside, but he has good feel for pitching and could be a back-of-the-rotation starter. He'll open 2011 in the Columbus rotation after finishing last season with two starts there.

 

Ranked Houston Astros #24 prospect after the 2009 season Premium

 

The Astros believe Kuechel could be one of the steals of the 2009 draft, a seventh-rounder signed for $150,000. He succeeded throughout his college career at Arkansas and in the Cape Cod League, and he earned both of the Razorbacks' victories at last year's College World Series. His polish was evident in his pro debut, as he cruised through the short-season New York-Penn League. Keuchel is a finesse lefthander who relies on his control, mixing locations and pitch sequences to keep hitters off balance. He pitched in the high 80s and touched 91 mph at Arkansas, though after a long college season he worked more at 85-88 in pro ball. His fastball has sink and he commands it well. His changeup is his bread and butter, a plus offering that keeps hitters off his fastball. His curveball is a fringe-average pitch, and he also toys around with a slider that he can add and subtract from. Keuchel's stuff gives him little margin for error, but his command, feel and poise could make him a backof- the-rotation starter. He could reach high Class A at some point in 2010 and could be the first 2009 Astros draftee to reach the majors.

Ranked Houston Astros #23 prospect after the 2010 season Premium

Keuchel's pedigree suggests he would rank much higher on this list. He was a Friday starter in the Southeastern Conference at Arkansas, and enough of an athlete to be recruited as a quarterback by his hometown college, Tulsa. But he doesn't have the pure stuff to rate as a premium prospect. Keuchel had a successful 2010 season, leading the organization with 174 innings and reaching Double-A. He generates impressive sink on his fastball and changeup, and he gave up just 10 home runs in the hitter-friendly California League-with eight in 58 innings at Lancaster's unforgiving park. His 1.9 walks per nine innings ratio adds to his appeal. The problem is that his fastball has lost velocity since college. He sat at 86-91 mph and touched 93 for the Razorbacks, but his delivery has become stiffer and more mechanical since signing, and he worked at 83-86 in 2010. Keuchel's curveball has been a swing-and-miss pitch at lower levels because he locates it well, but scouts consider it fringy because it breaks early. If he regains velocity and arm speed by improving his tempo and delivery, he should fit at the back of a big league rotation. It's hard to see him continuing to have success otherwise, so the Astros hope his velo bounces back when he returns to Corpus Christi to start 2011.

 

Ranked Houston Astros #21 prospect after the 2011 season Premium

Keuchel won 19 games in three seasons at Arkansas, leading the Razorbacks to the 2009 College World Series, and he's continued to win in pro ball, even in an Astros system all too accustomed to losing. He was the only Houston farmhand to reach 10 victories in 2011. He's a rare lefthanded sinkerballer who pitches inside even though his fastball sits at only 84-87 mph. He has touched 90-91 in the past but generally relies on movement and location. Keuchel mixes up his tempo, at times adding a hitch to his delivery, and also employs a slow curveball to keep hitters off balance. His best pitch is a sinking changeup that has better action than his fastball and grades as solid or better. Righthanders batted .255 against him last year, while lefties hit .305. His overall package compares best to finesse southpaws such as Zane Smith or Doug Davis. Keuchel is extremely durable, working 174 innings in 2010 and 189 last year (including his time in the Arizona Fall League). A potential back-of-the-rotation starter or middle reliever, he'll have to keep proving himself one level at a time. He'll start 2012 back in Triple-A, where he was rocked in four of his seven late-season starts.

 

Ranked New York Mets #11 prospect after the 2012 season Premium

DeGrom began his college career at Stetson as the starting shortstop, but he finished his time with the Hatters as the club’s No. 1 starter. He first took the mound during his junior year, beginning as closer but moving into the rotation down the stretch out of necessity. He had Tommy John surgery just a few months after signing for $95,000 as a ninth-rounder in 2010 and missed all of the following season. DeGrom appeared no worse for the time off while making his full-season debut in 2012. His athleticism and clean arm action encourage scouts that he can refine his secondary pitches and stay in a starting role. His fastball is plenty good already. DeGrom carries 93-95 mph velocity through six innings, tops out at 98 and features solid sinking life. He creates good angle and plane and has no trouble throwing strikes, as evidenced by his rate of 1.6 walks per nine innings last year. His slider could develop into a plus weapon if he succeeds in getting more lateral break on the pitch. That’s a possibility because he generates plenty of tight spin now. He’ll need to continue honing his feel for a changeup. Though he’s much less experienced than the typical 24-year-old pitching prospect, deGrom’s feel for a sinker and slider make him a potential No. 3 or 4 starter. He may begin 2013 in high Class A, but look for him to receive ample Double-A experience during the year.

Ranked New York Mets #10 prospect after the 2013 season Premium

DeGrom began his college career as the starting shortstop for Stetson before transitioning to the mound as a junior, first serving as closer before moving into the rotation down the stretch in 2010. He has completed four levels of the full-season minors in two years, after missing the entire 2011 season while rehabbing from Tommy John surgery he had the previous fall. DeGrom succeeds by pounding the zone and showing a clean arm action and bulldog mentality. He threw nearly two-thirds of his pitches for strikes in 2013, though he would benefit form expanding the zone and getting batters to chase when he gets ahead in the count. He sits at 92-94 mph with plus sinking life, and he can rear back for 98 when he needs it. DeGrom made progress with a straight changeup this season, giving him a good weapon against lefties, though he misses more bats against righties with a fastball and slurvy breaking ball. He's working on improving the rotation and bite of his breaking ball. After logging a combined 148 innings in 2013, deGrom has put his surgery completely behind him. An offseason addition to the 40-man roster, he likely will begin 2014 at Triple-A Las Vegas, flying standby for the big league rotation. He has a ceiling as a No. 4 starter or better.

[FrozenRopes]

Who was called up in favour of these guys?

[KingKat]

Who was called up in favour of these guys?

 

Tepera and Doubront. Tepera makes perfect sense but it seems odd to call up Doubront now when he's only scheduled to start on Tuesday.

[Boxcar]

Woo hoo, #4 starter ceilings

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

So Boyd and Shanchez still got a chance! whew

[Atothe]

Jenkins should have been called up, he can eat 3 innings if needed

[KingKat]

Jenkins should have been called up, he can eat 3 innings if needed

 

Jenkins until Doubront's start would have made perfect sense. I'm really suprised they went the way they did given the state of the bullpen.

[Atothe]

Jenkins until Doubront's start would have made perfect sense. I'm really suprised they went the way they did given the state of the bullpen.

 

Unless they surprise and call Norris up to take that start I think they did themselves a disservice

[KingKat]

Unless they surprise and call Norris up to take that start I think they did themselves a disservice

 

Another possiblity is that maybe they think Doubront can pitch a few innings tonight and still make his Tuesday start. I don't really see the logic otherwise.

[pickoff22]

Jenkins threw 40+ pitches two on Wednesday, they wanted guys who could throw tonight I assume.

[glory]

I take back what I said before about not trading prospects. This is Toronto's best shot at a playoff spot and they are running Doubront out there ffs after Copeland failed and Boyd had terrible start.

 

Trade for Hamels. End the madness.

[Orgfiller]

We're also likely missing the point in that Chad Jenkins suxxxxxxx

[John_Havok]

Another possiblity is that maybe they think Doubront can pitch a few innings tonight and still make his Tuesday start. I don't really see the logic otherwise.

 

Doubront is the "in case of emergency" arm for tonight if it gets ugly.

[RealAccountant]

Doubront is the "in case of emergency" arm for tonight if it gets ugly.

 

He is starting Jul 07

[Daniel Labude]

He is starting Jul 07

 

For AAA

[Jimcanuck]

Any of them can become top-of-rotation. Guys like Kluber, DeGrom, Arrieta, Gray, Keuchel, etc. weren't supposed to be aces, it just sort of happened.

 

and some question the predictive accuracy of sabermetrics and get slammed for it. predictive stats reasonably accurate for veterans with several years of data, but new mlb players? nah

[BigBopper]

Why am I a fan of such a f***ing dumb team...

 

I agree 110% it time they got rid of Gibbons his moves lately have been dumb as well.

If AA doesnt do something soon the fans should revolve and not attend games as they

did about 10 or so years ago