Jeff Hoffman stud thread

[Spanky99]

lulz

[Angrioter]

Tercet es un ganador!!

[glory]

AA, good at analyzing talent, bad at all else.

 

It's the definition of a directionless organization. They have no real consistent game plan when it comes to developing players. Some are rocketed up the system for no reason, others are told to pitch to contact, they get called to the Majors and if they don't succeed immediately are sent right back down, etc. AA's regime being in charge of drafting while an actual GM handles the roster would be the best of both worlds.

[Atothe]

GD where can I find the info to attend your funeral?

[Brownie19]

It's the definition of a directionless organization. They have no real consistent game plan when it comes to developing players. Some are rocketed up the system for no reason, others are told to pitch to contact, they get called to the Majors and if they don't succeed immediately are sent right back down, etc. AA's regime being in charge of drafting while an actual GM handles the roster would be the best of both worlds.

 

Why on earth would you try to treat every prospect the same?

[glory]

Why on earth would you try to treat every prospect the same?

 

Where "on earth" did I say treat them all the same?

 

I said have a consistent plan with them (see how the Rays promote or used to promote pitchers).

[fmradioguy]

Where "on earth" did I say treat them all the same?

 

I said have a consistent plan with them (see how the Rays promote or used to promote pitchers).

 

It should be said that, while I agree that the Jays have been rushing players a bit as of late because of major league need and an effort to compete, the Rays also artificially kept some players down longer than they needed to avoid having their arb clocks start. That said, their best home grown pitcher to date, David Price, pitched fewer than 30 minor league games before being promoted to the majors. When a player is ready, they're ready. But you never know if they're truly ready until they've competed at the major league level.

[Angrioter]

Should we be concerned about Blue Jays' prospect Jeff Hoffman?

 

Last week, Fangraphs posted a video on Youtube of Jays' prospect Jeff Hoffman, who is making his pro debut in High-A. The first half filmed him in pro ball this season and the second half showed the 22-year-old's domination in College at East Carolina. The difference is stark: not in a good way. My question is, given Hoffman’s pedestrian stats in High-A Dunedin (6.1K/9, 1.321 WHIP), is it time to be concerned about the 2014’s 9th overall pick?

 

Background

 

I think, for the purpose of this article, it would be nice to provide a quick background on Hoffman. He was seen by many scouts, myself included, as the top arm talent-wise in the 2014 draft class. His fastball sat in the mid to high 90s with great breaking movement into right-handers, a pitch that was nearly impossible to barrel up. His curveball looked like a plus-plus pitch as well. To top that combo off, Hoffman’s change and control had the potential to above-average. An arm-injury that would require Tommy John held Hoffman back from being taken in the top 5, but, indicative of his upside, he was still taken by the Blue Jays at No. 9 overall.

 

The Problem?

 

Once an aggressive, athletic-looking, up-tempo starter, now Jeff appears tall and stiff and laid-back. He does not burst off the mound like he used to, and his delivery is incredibly slow compared to his college motion. The results of this new pace are clearly seen in his stuff. It just does not have the same bite anymore. Reports say his fastball has not lost velocity, which is a good sign for this recovery, but that pitch that dove into right-handers last season hardly moves at all right now.

 

Hoffman’s curveball may be the biggest casualty from the surgery and revised motion. You can observe for yourself in the video at the end of the article, but it does not take a scout to notice the parity between the 2014 and ’15 offerings.

 

Conclusion

 

Kiley McDaniel of Fangrapsh suggests that perhaps Toronto is attempting to lower the risk of re-injury for Hoffman by forcing him to "dial down his curveball" and put less effort in his delivery. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I don’t know if I agree with taking a potential frontline starter in Hoffman and morphing him into a No. 3 or No. 4. That’s essentially what he’s become at this point. Two things could be happening here. Either Toronto is forcing Hoffman to neglect his athleticism and true talent in favor of a safe recovery, or he is just struggling to consistently put away A-ball hitters, as the low strikeout and high hit totals show. I think it is a combination of both the front office erring on the side of caution and Hoffman’s diminished abilities.

 

Now it's your turn: are you concerned about Hoffman's struggles? And how do you feel about Toronto's strategy regarding one of their top pitching prospects?

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/7/17/8990695/should-we-be-concerned-about-blue-jays-prospect-jeff-hoffman

[G-Snarls]

^

 

Fire everybody

 

#FreeHoffman

[tercet]

Don't worry njh I was wrong few times..

 

I thought JPA could do 250/300/400 and that Brad Mills could be a semi reliable starter(don't know what I was smoking then).

[NotThatGuy]

Where did I say that? It's a skill to induce weak contact, it's a rare one. Hoffman is in the minors, I don't care that he's working on things. That's what I would expect him to be doing.

 

It's a skill, and it's not rare, although, like any skill, to be exceptional at it is rare (duh! thanks, Capt. Obvious!). MLB teams are utilizing exit velo of a batted ball as a primary analytical tool for both hitters and pitchers.

[TwistedLogic]

July 18 (Start #12 in 2015, Start #1 in Class AA New Hampshire):

 

http://i.gyazo.com/efd9ac5ab42497928384dae09a7d9fe5.png

 

Season Stats:

 

http://i.gyazo.com/a96f814e220c4f10f0279bf0fd790a26.png

[Maahfaace]

July 18 (Start #12 in 2015, Start #1 in Class AA New Hampshire):

 

http://i.gyazo.com/efd9ac5ab42497928384dae09a7d9fe5.png

 

Season Stats:

 

http://i.gyazo.com/a96f814e220c4f10f0279bf0fd790a26.png

 

Sonny gray 2012 AA 5.9 k/9 148ip .......He's gonna be garbage according to those k numbers

[GD]

Sonny gray 2012 AA 5.9 k/9 148ip .......He's gonna be garbage according to those k numbers

 

8.97 in AAA. What was Sanchez's in AAA again?

[magits]

8.97 in AAA. What was Sanchez's in AAA again?

 

hoffman threat, stay on topc

[Maahfaace]

8.97 in AAA. What was Sanchez's in AAA again?

 

The point here is that as much as some on here claim to know regarding Hoffmans career trajectory, they really don't know s***. Everyone develops differently and there really is no way to measure it accurately.

[GD]

The point here is that as much as some on here claim to know regarding Hoffmans career trajectory, they really don't know s***. Everyone develops differently and there really is no way to measure it accurately.

 

I'm actually not all that worried about Big Hoff right now, personally

 

Seems like the Jays are gonna destroy him, but that's not his fault

[Brownie19]

The point here is that as much as some on here claim to know regarding Hoffmans career trajectory, they really don't know s***. Everyone develops differently and there really is no way to measure it accurately.

 

I think it's called playing the percentages. There aren't many pitcher who have a 5.9 K/9 rate in AA that become big time major league pitchers. Sure it happens from time to time - but not often.

[Angrioter]

I think it's called playing the percentages. There aren't many pitcher who have a 5.9 K/9 rate in AA that become big time major league pitchers. Sure it happens from time to time - but not often.

 

José iglesia suck in the minors league, but he's a stud at MLB level.

[Brownie19]

This whole Hoffman is a stud/Hoffman will be mediocre debate is getting so tiring.

 

How about we let the kid work his way up and let his Major League performance dictate what kind of pitcher he is. There are plenty of examples of players lighting up the minors and flopping at the ML level, and vice versa.

 

Let's just be happy that we have an arm in the system with his physical abilities.

 

 

I think the point is that in general - players that light up the minors become good ML players. Players who suck in the minors, typically don't become good ML players. Obviously there are outliners, but it's fair to discuss players based on generalities isn't it? If a guy can't strike out many in A or AA - and most minor leaguers who can't strike out guys in A and AA fail in the majors - then it's fair to raise that as a concern.

[BigCecil]

This whole Hoffman is a stud/Hoffman will be mediocre debate is getting so tiring.

 

How about we let the kid work his way up and let his Major League performance dictate what kind of pitcher he is. There are plenty of examples of players lighting up the minors and flopping at the ML level, and vice versa.

 

Let's just be happy that we have an arm in the system with his physical abilities.

 

truth!

[IronLadle]

I think the point is that in general - players that light up the minors become good ML players. Players who suck in the minors, typically don't become good ML players. Obviously there are outliners, but it's fair to discuss players based on generalities isn't it? If a guy can't strika ope out many in A or AA - and most minor leaguers who can't strike out guys in A and AA fail in the majors - then it's fair to raise that as a concern.

 

But is he trying to strike guys out? Or is he working on a certain pitch or control

[Jonzo]

GD where can I find the info to attend your funeral?

 

Nearly spit out my drink.

[jays_fever]

But the whole, 'he isn't striking out enough guys' is tiring. He's doing everything else quite well. Brad Mills had good strikeout numbers in the minors. It isn't always about the K's.

 

He's pitching fine, isnt walking batters for his 1st professional year. People need to shut up though about they saw him pitch on TV and are convinced he's the next Halladay and therefore untradable.

[baubau]

But the whole, 'he isn't striking out enough guys' is tiring. He's doing everything else quite well. Brad Mills had good strikeout numbers in the minors. It isn't always about the K's.

 

I am curious, what else does he do well?

[baubau]

his ERA is good' ...'he's producing weak contact and getting outs in other ways'

 

Aha! So you said it!

 

Jokes aside, meh, don't care about Hoffman's result this year that much really. I may be in the minority. As you said just coming back off of TJ. All I care about right now is the Velo which has been there from the reports I read. Everything will come back slowly/gradually.

 

My fear is this team makes him into a Sanchez 2.0 as that report from fangraphs does have me worried, especially with this Jays franchise, and if they rush him too quickly.