Robo-Umps

[Deadpool]

Idk, I kind of enjoy the game more as an ump blows an obvious call for my favourite team in a critical moment. It's what makes the game feel so pure.

 

The obviously incredibly exaggerated worst case scenario I usually cite is "what if the umps had decided that Joe Carter's 1993 homer was foul?" If the 4 of them had all agreed that it was foul there was nothing (at the time) that the Jays could have done to overrule them, and a seminal part of Jays history would have been lost because umps are bad. Would it still feel pure had that happened?

 

I don't like a system in which a mistake like that, however unlikely, COULD decide the outcome of a game.

 

Borderline strikes aren't as severe, but they still have an impact on the game.

[Deadpool]

What's the status on the accuracy of the "robo ump" Are they able to accurately adjust the zone for each hitter? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the zone established in the players position during a swing? ie, you can't just crouch right down and put your chest on your knees...

 

I guess they could send all players through a simulator to develop their particular strike zone or something.

 

They could do that (which would require constant tweaking, but that's not really that difficult to manage), or since there's never been any actual relationship between the actual "strike zone rule" and what umpires call, they could amend the rule to simply be "from 8" off the ground to 20" off the ground" (pulling numbers out of my ass), this would, of course, mean taller players had a bit of an edge compared to what they have now, and Pedroia might have to swing at balls 16" over his ugly, midget head, but y'know...

[Governator]

The obviously incredibly exaggerated worst case scenario I usually cite is "what if the umps had decided that Joe Carter's 1993 homer was foul?" If the 4 of them had all agreed that it was foul there was nothing (at the time) that the Jays could have done to overrule them, and a seminal part of Jays history would have been lost because umps are bad. Would it still feel pure had that happened?

 

I don't like a system in which a mistake like that, however unlikely, COULD decide the outcome of a game.

 

Borderline strikes aren't as severe, but they still have an impact on the game.

 

 

What if the MLB decided that you could use your manager challenge on an out pitch? In other words if it's the 9th inning bases loaded and a 3-2 pitch, you could challenge that if you still have one to go to the pitch f/x result.

 

Regardless, I have more of a problem with guys getting called out from 1st base/3rd base umps on check swings more than any plate ump calling. I swear, they just guess based on reaction from catcher/batter and get it right 50% of the time.

[JaysAllMighty]

We now have the technology to make the game fairer and better so why not improve on it? In hockey they have cameras in the nets to make sure a goal is legal. A 3rd. strike can end a game, that's way to much power given to an ump when so much is on the line when there would be no dispute when the legal right call would be made by the computer generated strike zone.

 

Some umps are vengeful and will purposely give a hard time to batters/pitchers/teams on border line pitches.

 

I'm an old fart all in favor of making the game more fair, I hate it when bad calls are made, specially when they have the ability to fix the problem.

[Brownie19]

We now have the technology to make the game fairer and better so why not improve on it? In hockey they have cameras in the nets to make sure a goal is legal. A 3rd. strike can end a game, that's way to much power given to an ump when so much is on the line when there would be no dispute when the legal right call would be made by the computer generated strike zone.

 

Some umps are vengeful and will purposely give a hard time to batters/pitchers/teams on border line pitches.

 

I'm an old fart all in favor of making the game more fair, I hate it when bad calls are made, specially when they have the ability to fix the problem.

 

 

They also have the technology to make sure offside calls aren't missed in hockey - and to review penalties.....but they don't because this crap all takes too long.

[z3r0s]

They also have the technology to make sure offside calls aren't missed in hockey - and to review penalties.....but they don't because this crap all takes too long.

 

But this isn't the case for balls/strikes in baseball.

[Brownie19]

But this isn't the case for balls/strikes in baseball.

 

sustained.

[Top 10 Personal Catcher]

Thanks, All! This is a great discussion. I'm definitely in favor of making the game more accurate/fair, and robo-calls of balls and strikes would definitely do that. Although, I still maintain that having an ump back there ringing the batter up, for example, is important to maintaining the entertainment factor for fans. I like z3r0s suggestion of keeping the ump behind the plate and giving him an earpiece. The union would definitely fight that, and they would argue that it essentially turns umpires into mimics. I know a lot of people on here will say, "who cares? Screw 'em!"; however, if that is the attitude taken by the league, then we won't have any umpires at all and we'll potentially be left with the anticlimactic problem I originally brought up. Or, I suppose the league could replace the umpires with actors. Although, that has the potential to devolve into something pretty cheesy rather quickly.

 

With all of that said, I am wondering how far some people are willing to go with robo-umps. Who is in favor of automating the entire game? For example, having sensors in the bases and the balls in order to determine whether the batter/runner touched the base first or the ball touched the first baseman's glove first. Or, whether the runner tagging from third left the base before the outfielder caught the fly ball or not. Or, whether the ball in the infielders glove touched the runner before the runner touched the base. What do people think of that sort of thing?

[o2cui2i]

In hockey they have cameras in the nets to make sure a goal is legal.

 

there a couple goals a game and Hockey already has stoppages. There are 250-300 pitches in a baseball game. stopping to check every possible strike 3 even would lead to ridiculously long games.

 

They can tell where the ball goes over the plate, but the strike zone height is different for every player. It's knees to the lower chest which means it's different for a guy who is 5'5" than it would be for a guy who is 6'6"

[z3r0s]

They can tell where the ball goes over the plate, but the strike zone height is different for every player. It's knees to the lower chest which means it's different for a guy who is 5'5" than it would be for a guy who is 6'6"

 

That is not an issue that will be hard to overcome with current tech.

[z3r0s]

Thanks, All! This is a great discussion. I'm definitely in favor of making the game more accurate/fair, and robo-calls of balls and strikes would definitely do that. Although, I still maintain that having an ump back there ringing the batter up, for example, is important to maintaining the entertainment factor for fans. I like z3r0s suggestion of keeping the ump behind the plate and giving him an earpiece. The union would definitely fight that, and they would argue that it essentially turns umpires into mimics. I know a lot of people on here will say, "who cares? Screw 'em!"; however, if that is the attitude taken by the league, then we won't have any umpires at all and we'll potentially be left with the anticlimactic problem I originally brought up. Or, I suppose the league could replace the umpires with actors. Although, that has the potential to devolve into something pretty cheesy rather quickly.

 

With all of that said, I am wondering how far some people are willing to go with robo-umps. Who is in favor of automating the entire game? For example, having sensors in the bases and the balls in order to determine whether the batter/runner touched the base first or the ball touched the first baseman's glove first. Or, whether the runner tagging from third left the base before the outfielder caught the fly ball or not. Or, whether the ball in the infielders glove touched the runner before the runner touched the base. What do people think of that sort of thing?

 

I think umps on the field will be required for quite a long time to call all the other rules of the game, including out/safe calls (which can be reviewed by video if needed).

[Spanky__99]

It would also eliminate the conspiracy theories around baseball having an impact on smaller market teams vs large market teams etc, this has been going on for several decades.

[Deadpool]

Thanks, All! This is a great discussion. I'm definitely in favor of making the game more accurate/fair, and robo-calls of balls and strikes would definitely do that. Although, I still maintain that having an ump back there ringing the batter up, for example, is important to maintaining the entertainment factor for fans. I like z3r0s suggestion of keeping the ump behind the plate and giving him an earpiece. The union would definitely fight that, and they would argue that it essentially turns umpires into mimics. I know a lot of people on here will say, "who cares? Screw 'em!"; however, if that is the attitude taken by the league, then we won't have any umpires at all and we'll potentially be left with the anticlimactic problem I originally brought up. Or, I suppose the league could replace the umpires with actors. Although, that has the potential to devolve into something pretty cheesy rather quickly.

 

I don't think you'll see a situation where umpires will quit en masse rather than deal with earpieces. They'll complain, that's all they ever do, but it's not like they have a skill-set that is useful anywhere else (or anywhere at all for that matter...)

 

With all of that said, I am wondering how far some people are willing to go with robo-umps. Who is in favor of automating the entire game? For example, having sensors in the bases and the balls in order to determine whether the batter/runner touched the base first or the ball touched the first baseman's glove first. Or, whether the runner tagging from third left the base before the outfielder caught the fly ball or not. Or, whether the ball in the infielders glove touched the runner before the runner touched the base. What do people think of that sort of thing?

 

I would love to see the game entirely automated at some point in the future. The technology likely isn't there yet, so that won't happen in my lifetime... The technology *IS* there to call balls and strikes accurately, and most importantly, consistently.

[Dick_Pole]

Even with a robo-ump behind the plate, the flesh and bones umpire will still have a huge impact on the game there so the earpiece thing can still work since he's far from a mimic. Safe/out calls at the plate, determining foul tips, hit batsmen, balks etc.

 

I think people are far overestimating the tendency for umpires to make a mistake. I think they do a pretty damn good job overall and the bulk of them aren't f***ing *******s who dedicated their life to upholding the integrity of the game as best as they can to their ability. It's basically a thankless, though well-paid job, no different than a garbage man or bureaucrat. People will hate you if you mess up once, but not thank you for the other 99 times you do a great job.

[o2cui2i]

I think people are far overestimating the tendency for umpires to make a mistake. I think they do a pretty damn good job overall and the bulk of them aren't f***ing *******s who dedicated their life to upholding the integrity of the game as best as they can to their ability. It's basically a thankless, though well-paid job, no different than a garbage man or bureaucrat. People will hate you if you mess up once, but not thank you for the other 99 times you do a great job.

 

you're missing some punctuation there I believe... lol

 

If the umps union would be willing to rid themselves of the incompetent few we could put this discussion off for a few decades. You could probably count the s***** umps on one hand. most of us would have the same list.

[Deadpool]

Even with a robo-ump behind the plate, the flesh and bones umpire will still have a huge impact on the game there so the earpiece thing can still work since he's far from a mimic. Safe/out calls at the plate, determining foul tips, hit batsmen, balks etc.

 

I think people are far overestimating the tendency for umpires to make a mistake. I think they do a pretty damn good job overall and the bulk of them aren't f***ing *******s who dedicated their life to upholding the integrity of the game as best as they can to their ability. It's basically a thankless, though well-paid job, no different than a garbage man or bureaucrat. People will hate you if you mess up once, but not thank you for the other 99 times you do a great job.

 

I work in IT. This is pretty much our motto.

[Spanky__99]

Even with a robo-ump behind the plate, the flesh and bones umpire will still have a huge impact on the game there so the earpiece thing can still work since he's far from a mimic. Safe/out calls at the plate, determining foul tips, hit batsmen, balks etc.

 

Agreed, no doubt they still need a guy back there.

[Stangstag]

you're missing some punctuation there I believe... lol

 

If the umps union would be willing to rid themselves of the incompetent few we could put this discussion off for a few decades. You could probably count the s***** umps on one hand. most of us would have the same list.

 

Bucknor, West, Hernandez, Marquez... Am I missing any?

[torontowebsite]

Agreed, no doubt they still need a guy back there.

 

The pitchfx system has gotten pretty good, but there's still quite a biti of error in it. Of course there's all sorts of fancy math to make sure that the zone in KC is the same as the one in Toronto, but it's not perfect and it is used to grade umpires.

 

The umps have gotten a lot better since it was implemented and used to grade them.

 

Honestly, baseball is a weird sport and I don't mind the different zones for different games. I also don't mind the different ballpark dimensions. Quite frankly, I think it's just as weird that the shape of the playing surface changes, and a team can change the fences, as it is for an ump to call a different zone.

 

I think the umps were between 97-99% right, btw.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

He's a question if umps suck so bad how can Stats geeks trust there data on pitchers as the Truth?

 

Or any stat as the data is flawed by human's, bad input = bad output!

 

So the Cyborg is wrong! Lol

[o2cui2i]

Bucknor, West, Hernandez, Marquez... Am I missing any?

 

Davidson if he is still around

[CrackerJack]

I like a lot of baseball traditions, but now that the technology exists, i'm in favour of an automated strike zone.

 

can the human eye accurately tell whether a 90+ mph pitch with movement crosses the plate on the corners of the zone?

 

I actually don't mind the ump missing some borderline strike calls if they even out for both teams.

But, what I don't like is how (say) Greg Maddux got that strike whereas lesser pitcher's didn't.

Or where (say) David Ortiz is treated differently than (say) Ryan Goins at the plate ... (their heights aside.)

 

I'd love to see an analysis of the home plate umpires performances in games at Yankee stadium & Fenway Park over the years to see how their calls shake out for the Bombers & Bosox compared to the visitors ...

[abola2121]

I don't mind keeping umps just as long as they get an electric shock every time they make a bad call.

 

Electrified athletic cups.

[Spanky__99]

I like a lot of baseball traditions, but now that the technology exists, i'm in favour of an automated strike zone.

 

can the human eye accurately tell whether a 90+ mph pitch with movement crosses the plate on the corners of the zone?

 

I actually don't mind the ump missing some borderline strike calls if they even out for both teams.

But, what I don't like is how (say) Greg Maddux got that strike whereas lesser pitcher's didn't.

Or where (say) David Ortiz is treated differently than (say) Ryan Goins at the plate ... (their heights aside.)

 

I'd love to see an analysis of the home plate umpires performances in games at Yankee stadium & Fenway Park over the years to see how their calls shake out for the Bombers & Bosox compared to the visitors ...

 

This is why I said it would eliminate conspiracy theorists, it could certainly help baseball.