ex Jays

[BigCecil]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/ex-files-how-former-10-blue-jays-are-performing/

 

Its early and I don't like looking at stocks after I sell them usually, but this is kind of interesting on 10 ex Jays so far 2015.

[KingKat]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/ex-files-how-former-10-blue-jays-are-performing/

 

Its early and I don't like looking at stocks after I sell them usually, but this is kind of interesting on 10 ex Jays so far 2015.

 

I guess the focus of this piece was very recent ex Jays but two of the most interesting stories for me this year are the peformances of two slightly less recent Jays, Marisnick and Desclafani.

[HERPDERP]

I don't regret any of those moves at all. Could we have used Lind's bat? Sure, but he would occupy at least two positions and the surplus from his bat isn't as good at the surplus we get at 1b with Smoak when we use him.

 

I would have loved to try Morrow as a reliever but he's destined to be a starter, and he is a time bomb.

 

I would have kept Jannsen, even though he's injured right now. I think he said the Jays didn't even make him an offer. Cheapskates.

[JohnnyLonghorn]

I may be in the minority on this one but Id take Lind over both Smoak and Estrada. 1B defense is cool but I prefer an elite bat against RHP.

[LTR]

It's the two starters we lost that are impressing the most... Morrow and Happ.

[JaysFan4Ever]

Like someone mentioned I would have liked to try Morrow as a RP just to let him let it loose like he did last year. Our pen could use the help but he wanted to start and he'd command more money there eventually. SD gave him the chance and we'll see if he winds up on the DL or not or being traded at the deadline if he's putting up decent numbers.

 

I would have liked them to at least have made an offer to CJ but maybe they knew more about him than we did and maybe the injury they had a feeling would be coming. Or maybe he wanted out/they wanted him gone after his words after the deadline without a trade being made. Who knows?

 

Gose for Travis seems to be fairly even right now. Time will tell but it looks like a good move for both teams so far.

 

Happ is off to a great start. I'm sure the larger park has helped. He'd look nice putting up those numbers over some of our starters right now.

 

But what's done is is done. It seems that no matter who the Jays let go, no matter what the circumstances, at least a few go on to have a few good seasons either the next year or a year or so down the road where the Jays could have used the help. It's life. It's baseball. We need the players on the team now to start playing to their level and see where it goes.

[TheHurl]

Catcher - Travis d'Arnaud, Yan Gomes (JPA buried in the minors with Carlos Perez)

1B - Lind

2B - Valbuena

SS - Hech

3B - Lawrie

RF - Marisnick

CF - Gose

LF - Rasmus

P - Wojc, Descalfani, Morrow, Alvarez, Happ (Nicolino, Snydergaard, Graveman)

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting about others. That's about a $35M team that wins 60 games.

[jaysblue]

It's the two starters we lost that are impressing the most... Morrow and Happ.

 

One is pitching in San Diego, and the other at Safeco.

[Dylan]

I only miss Lind but I can't complain about Estrada so far, especially with our pitching mess

[BigCecil]

I only miss Lind but I can't complain about Estrada so far, especially with our pitching mess

 

Agree....and I really miss Eric Thames.

[ElNik2013]

AA good, ain't he? Look at all the talent he acquired since he took over.

[HERPDERP]

Agree....and I really miss Eric Thames.

 

I told everyone he was black Eric Hinske..

[Key22]

Our pitching will be our ultimate downfall - losing Stroman is crushing - he was probably the Ace and it forced the Sanchez from effective 8th inning relief to mediocre starter. Norris isn't quite ready for the show and AA failed to acquire shut down relief - the top arms on the relief market were Gregarson and Robertson.

 

I know people like to talk about WAR but wit the pen it is easy. You have a lead in the 7th - you need to 7-8-9 innings while holding said lead. If the Yankees lose 10 games and we lose 20 that's a 10 game difference - What am I missing - the job needs to get done and our pen sucks - the rotation has been pretty terrible as well - even when we seem to win we give up 8 runs.

 

Dave Robertson

8 innings - 3 hits, 1 BB and 17K - 0.00ERA -0.70 FIP and 0.50 WHIP.

 

Gregarson

10 innings 5 hits 1 BB and 8K - 1.80E.RA 1.87FIP, 0.60 WHIP

 

What would our record be with these two guys at the end of the game versus our 4 blown saves? Hmm we'd have 4 more wins and 4 less losses - so explain how relievers don't matter to the win column?

 

We would be 15-8 and in first place but nope 11-12 in last place.

[Spanky99]

I don't get this thread, save for Lind and Gomes?

[TheHurl]

actually Gregerson has a blown save...and blew more saves than anyone last year. He's projected for much worse numbers than Cecil the rest of the way. The average amount of blown saves for a team last year was over 18. It happens get out of your little bubble you live in.

[Key22]

Blown saves happen - the names mentioned are names who would be doing a better job than what is currently pitching in our pen.

 

The Jays have hit well for the last several years - our pitching has sucked ass and is worse this year than it was last year. You said the average was 18 - we've already blown 4. We are on pace for well over 18 blown saves - to be a winner you should be "better than league average" in most areas.

 

We currently sit 29/30 in earned runs allowed per game - But our +7 run differential is 14/30 which is keeping us respectable thanks to the fact that we can beat up bad pitching or good pitchers having an off day - though we get completely shut down by good pitching.

 

We give up 3 times more runs that Kansas City and more than double the runs that New York gives up from the 7th inning to the 9th inning. Indeed the top three teams in baseball in fewest runs allowed from the 7th-9th innings are Kansas, New York, Houston (Toronto is 26th and 29th in just the 8th and 9th inning). All the leaders here are also division leaders - surprise, surprise.

 

Those three teams also lead the AL in overall Earned Run Average.

 

Toronto is 3rd in overall runs scored - behind KC and Baltimore. But it is arguable that we have more talent than our offense has shown thus far.

 

We're 26th in close games - KC and Houston are in the top 5.

 

I suppose it's beating a dead horse to say that if this team doesn't find some pitching and find it soon - we're out of it by June. Our 7th to 9th pitching is attrocious and our rotation has two rookies who struggle to get to the 7th inning, two number 3 starters pitching a bit more like number 4 starters and Hutchison who has been what exactly - a -0.6 WAR pitcher with a 1.57 WHIP. Eek - that's not major league Caliber so far and certainly not top of the rotation material for a supposed contending team.

 

Love watching the offense though. Besides people are already calling for Gibbons' head - like it's his fault AA got him no pitchers.

[bendera3]

JA Happ is doing well this year so far.

[BigCecil]

I don't get this thread, save for Lind and Gomes?

 

Hmmm....usually you say...."wwwhhhooo ggiiiiivvveeess a fffffuuuuuucccckkkkk??!!". lol

[Key22]

JA Happ is doing well this year so far.

 

Yeah don't remind me. It made sense at the time given that we had a hole in left with the obvious departure of Melky and WAAAAAY back then we had lots of time to sign free agent pitching. With Stroman/Dickey/MB/Hutch - we could probably trade Happ - get Saunders and also sign a starter.

 

Stroman is the back breaker - lose the ace - forces Sanchez into the rotation so we lose our closer/set-up man as well in a sense and then a lack of depth.

 

At this point there is nothing that can be done - we don't have the chips to make a trade for a positive helpful starter - and in fact we probably need three. We need a closer as well.

 

And we have a new Vernon Wells albatross in Reyes.

[SAAviour]

@pgammo: How much fun is Jake Marisnick:.383/.433/.667 9 SB?

 

Sigh

[ScientificReason]

Happ would be nice in the rotation right now.

[glory]

Marisnick, Syndergaard, d'Arnaud, Gomes, Alvarez (hurt but whatever), Escobar, Desclafani, Nicolino, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

f***, AA destroyed this team in a span on one month during that off-season.

[Praxis]

I love watching ex-Blue Jays on other teams, especially prospects like DeSclafani, Wojciechowski, Graveman and Nolin (soon apparently), Marisnick etc. because they were traded and never had a say and I now wish them nothing but the best on other teams. This also holds true for veteran players, including those who were let go or not re-signed such as Morrow, Janssen, Rasmus, Lind and so on. Cabrera on the other hand, whom we picked off the scrapheap and gave a second chance only to see him pimp himself out to the highest bidder later on, can get bent as far as I'm concerned.

 

Truthfully though if we blame AA for the last five years of failure and the mess we are in at the moment then we must also give him credit for drafting and developing those players as well, not to mention some of the other prospects coming through the system right now such as Hoffman, Reid-Foley and Pentecost. Unfortunately the team's record during AA's time as GM has been undeniably abysmal and in retrospect none of his big trades have panned out. He has gambled and lost and if this season goes south he has to go and a new person has to be brought in to rebuild this team from the ground up.

 

This season is just beginning however and there are still 138 games to play. I cannot believe that Bautista, Saunders, EE and so on will be as poor as they are now, nor will Dickey, Buehrle and Hutchinson. We are playing in a weak division and as long as we don't completely collapse, there is always hope.

 

Ultimately if things do go bad I still wouldn't let AA go completely; I believe he genuinely has the best interests of the team at heart and desperately wants it to succeed. Why not put him in charge of player development and allow him to continue to run the scouting and minor leagues and keep drafting/bringing up good young players? This and the tiny payroll of 2016 may be AA's greatest gifts to a new GM going forward.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Praxis

[ElNik2013]

Marisnick, Syndergaard, d'Arnaud, Gomes, Alvarez (hurt but whatever), Escobar, Desclafani, Nicolino, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

f***, AA destroyed this team in a span on one month during that off-season.

 

 

 

AA drafted or acquired via trade 5 of the 8 players you listed. Most of the players listed above wouldn't have contributed much in 2013 and 2014. So, given the state of the team at the time of the trades, they would've likely been expected to lose between 90-100 games in 2013. Losing that many games in 2013 would've likely given them a top 5 pick in 2014 and possibly another top pick after the 2014 season which may not have been much better.

 

I think we can see that the team was being rebuilt relatively well. The big thing is, why change course and go "all-in" after 2012?

 

AA must bear full responsibility for negotiating the Marlins and Mets trades. I am, however, leery of the way this franchise is run from the very top to the point of suspecting the change of direction coming from the top in an attempt to avoid a huge drop in attendance and tv ratings.

 

Even during this past off season, why not just make the management changes and get it over with? Instead, ownership fumbled the Duquette courtship and ended up with a lame-duck F/O which must see clearly that it is not wanted long term.

 

 

Anyway, it's early...

[glory]

AA drafted or acquired via trade 5 of the 8 players you listed. Most of the players listed above wouldn't have contributed much in 2013 and 2014. So, given the state of the team at the time of the trades, they would've likely been expected to lose between 90-100 games in 2013. Losing that many games in 2013 would've likely given them a top 5 pick in 2014 and possibly another top pick after the 2014 season which may not have been much better.

 

I think we can see that the team was being rebuilt relatively well. The big thing is, why change course and go "all-in" after 2012?

 

AA must bear full responsibility for negotiating the Marlins and Mets trades. I am, however, leery of the way this franchise is run from the very top to the point of suspecting the change of direction coming from the top in an attempt to avoid a huge drop in attendance and tv ratings.

 

Even during this past off season, why not just make the management changes and get it over with? Instead, ownership fumbled the Duquette courtship and ended up with a lame-duck F/O which must see clearly that it is not wanted long term.

 

 

Anyway, it's early...

 

Exactly my point. AA drafted/acquired most of those guys. Him and his scouting team obviously are/were a strength for this organization. Why mess that up? The Mets should have been our template. They are in a much more short-term driven environment (New York) and they took their sweet ass time to build what they have now, rather than throw a billion dollars in trades/free agency after winning 70-something games to try to win the fans back immediately.

 

The Jays didn't have to lose 100 games in 2013. Take Ervin Santana's salary in a dump (which the Royals ended up doing). Sign Bartolo Colon (which the A's ended up doing). That's two starters that were realistically available (one in a dump and the other coming off a suspension who likely would have taken the most money wherever it came from). In that scenario, they upgrade the rotation and don't lose a single asset. It's easy to look back now and say this stuff, but that's what teams do. They take stop gap vets and then replace them if/when an internal option becomes available. The Jays should have gone that route. Clearly, Bautista has not demanded a trade yet even after the last two season's of garbage, so he probably wouldn't have in the other scenario too if they were hovering around 75-85 wins with all their prospects in tact.

[ElNik2013]

Exactly my point. AA drafted/acquired most of those guys. Him and his scouting team obviously are/were a strength for this organization. Why mess that up? The Mets should have been our template. They are in a much more short-term driven environment (New York) and they took their sweet ass time to build what they have now, rather than throw a billion dollars in trades/free agency after winning 70-something games to try to win the fans back immediately.

 

The Jays didn't have to lose 100 games in 2013. Take Ervin Santana's salary in a dump (which the Royals ended up doing). Sign Bartolo Colon (which the A's ended up doing). That's two starters that were realistically available (one in a dump and the other coming off a suspension who likely would have taken the most money wherever it came from). In that scenario, they upgrade the rotation and don't lose a single asset. It's easy to look back now and say this stuff, but that's what teams do. They take stop gap vets and then replace them if/when an internal option becomes available. The Jays should have gone that route. Clearly, Bautista has not demanded a trade yet even after the last two season's of garbage, so he probably wouldn't have in the other scenario too if they were hovering around 75-85 wins with all their prospects in tact.

 

 

The lack of patience with a long-term plan seems to go beyond AA's tenure though, at least it seems to me.

 

AA has proven to be bad at managing a roster, among a few other things.

 

Anyway...