Ownsership to blame for constant mediocrity

[pickoff22]

I agree that Rogers doesn't "need" to spend more or take heat over their payroll - it's a healthy sum as it stands. My issue is with management constantly talking about how the financial resources are available even when all signs point to that not being the case. Even Beeston saying that payroll would go up this year over last isn't true at this stage.

[AdamGreenwood]

From CBS sportlines, perfectly sums up whats wrong with this org.

 

 

They always seem to stop just short. Adding Russell Martin's excellent pitch-framing skills, leadership and on-base ability was beautiful, even if they overpaid (let's face it, you have to overpay to get your guy in free agency). The move to get Josh Donaldson was excellent and Michael Saunders was a nice, cheap add to the outfield after losing Melky Cabrera.

 

Scoring runs hasn't been a problem, though. Preventing them has. Sure, Martin will help and the Jays are obviously expecting major contributions from youngsters Drew Hutchison, Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez in the rotation, but R.A. Dickey and Mark Buehrle sit at the top. Innings eaters, sure. A playoff-worthy 1-2 punch? Not these days. Seeing the price that landed Shields, you wonder what if the Jays just went that extra mile. He's more innings eater than upper-echelon ace, but he'd have given them a big boost.

 

And what if ownership allowed bigger spending? Scherzer would've looked pretty nice at the top of the rotation with such promising youngsters. The bullpen could use a boost, too.

 

This one falls on the owners. Toronto's far too large a market to continue to allow management to spend just enough to get people's hopes before closing the check books.

 

Still, the Martin and Donaldson moves were very good

 

Every single team in MLB can claim they would win if only it weren't for those stingy owners.

The Jays have an additional barrier to landing free agents in that many of them aren't interested in coming to Toronto. Similarly, everyone with a no-trade clause has Toronto on that list.

 

The problem is not that they are not spending enough. The problem is that they trade off our young assets for older veterans so that they can take a shot at playoffs for 1 or 2 years, when every thing comes together.

Instead, they should trade the veterans for young talent and build something sustainable, so that we can compete every year.

[Gorlak]

I agree that Rogers doesn't "need" to spend more or take heat over their payroll - it's a healthy sum as it stands. My issue is with management constantly talking about how the financial resources are available even when all signs point to that not being the case. Even Beeston saying that payroll would go up this year over last isn't true at this stage.

 

There isn't really any evidence that AA has no money to spend, The fact that Navarro is still on the team proves they have some cash ready on hand. I just think AA is firmly against spending on relievers because a win in the bullpen costs more than a win from any other position, and he thinks performance is not guaranteed, Both of which are true.

[Candy Maldonado]

Very good read

 

negged

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Actually if Beeston convinced Rogers to pony up money for trades or players to enhance his legacy as president of the jays

And thus forcing and altering AA plans to building this team! Then yes Ownership is fully to blame and needs to take blame!

Alternating ones path usually means not hitting ones original Mark! The gamble may have cost more time and more money in the long run too! As mistakes usually take more of both to correct and get it right, then getting it right the first time!

[jays76]

I agree that Rogers doesn't "need" to spend more or take heat over their payroll - it's a healthy sum as it stands. My issue is with management constantly talking about how the financial resources are available even when all signs point to that not being the case. Even Beeston saying that payroll would go up this year over last isn't true at this stage.

 

I couldn't agree more, my issue isn't with how much is being spent or is it enough but instead it's the empty promises of additional resources when that clearly hasn't been the case, you nailed it. I think a lot of fans (and players obviously) were heated at last years trade deadline after a full year of being jerked around by Rogers via AA in the press.

 

The timing then couldn't have been worse to do sweet f*** all (the minor DV move aside) but it's a new year so we'll see what unfolds with Beeston's promises. For the moment I'm giving him and ownership the benefit of the doubt, we've got all season & the deadline so we'll see what happens. In sports sometimes you just need that extra push at the right time and hopefully they'll be committed to winning and backing up there payroll promises this time if the opportunity is there again.

Edited February 16, 2015 by jays76

[jays76]

Every single team in MLB can claim they would win if only it weren't for those stingy owners.

The Jays have an additional barrier to landing free agents in that many of them aren't interested in coming to Toronto. Similarly, everyone with a no-trade clause has Toronto on that list.

 

The problem is not that they are not spending enough. The problem is that they trade off our young assets for older veterans so that they can take a shot at playoffs for 1 or 2 years, when every thing comes together.

Instead, they should trade the veterans for young talent and build something sustainable, so that we can compete every year.

 

I think you need a mix of the two like the St.Louis Cardinals which I believe is the blueprint AA is going for now after the failure of 2013.

[RealAccountant]

negged

 

Teen misc --------------------->

[Nox]

Above average payroll with below average results is somehow ownership's problem? Ok, Matt Snyder.

[saskjayfan]

Above average payroll with below average results is somehow ownership's problem? Ok, Matt Snyder.

 

It's not just your payroll with respect to the entire league, it's the payroll with respect to your division. You play almost half your games in your division. The royals don't have a big payroll, but they were second in their division. St. Louis is not over the top, but they were neck and neck with the Reds for the top payroll in their division. The Jays have a big payroll, but lag the Yankees and Sox by a sizeable margin and are third in the division. That said, the Orioles won, the Rays have won and the A's win, so the Jays payroll is sufficient enough to win, but it's always going to be a bigger struggle for the teams in the AL east or the NL west it would seem.

[Dick_Pole]

Every single team in MLB can claim they would win if only it weren't for those stingy owners.

The Jays have an additional barrier to landing free agents in that many of them aren't interested in coming to Toronto. Similarly, everyone with a no-trade clause has Toronto on that list.

 

The problem is not that they are not spending enough. The problem is that they trade off our young assets for older veterans so that they can take a shot at playoffs for 1 or 2 years, when every thing comes together.

Instead, they should trade the veterans for young talent and build something sustainable, so that we can compete every year.

 

The problem is the previous regime couldn't draft a good team if they were in a Yahoo fantasy league with 11 other casuals. Lind, Hill, McGowan, Snider, Romero, Marcum, Arencibia and Cecil is not a core from which you can build a championship. From Michael Young to July 2012 there wasn't much trading of young talent going on - there was just a lack of young talent. And while AA has glaring weaknesses, whatever young talent he has traded away, at least he's done a pretty good job at replacing them. 2015 looks like the best shot they've had for a long time - partially because the other 4 division rivals aren't exactly wowing anyone with their rosters either.

[GeorgiaPeach]

At least Buehrle is gone after this season. And Profar is heading towards bust material.. especially now that he's blocked by Andrus and Odor.

 

When did MLB stop allowing trades?

[o2cui2i]

It's not just your payroll with respect to the entire league, it's the payroll with respect to your division. You play almost half your games in your division. The royals don't have a big payroll, but they were second in their division. St. Louis is not over the top, but they were neck and neck with the Reds for the top payroll in their division. The Jays have a big payroll, but lag the Yankees and Sox by a sizeable margin and are third in the division. That said, the Orioles won, the Rays have won and the A's win, so the Jays payroll is sufficient enough to win, but it's always going to be a bigger struggle for the teams in the AL east or the NL west it would seem.

 

cards team is almost all players they drafted and that helps keep payroll down. amazing that they can be a top team every year and still pump out top players. not like a tampa team that had to suck moose dick for 10 years to build. Cards are a top run org

[burlingtonbandit]

I'm fine with the complaining about Rogers. When you account for market size and how much money Rogers makes from the Blue Jays its valid to say their payroll can be higher. Rogers absolutely deserves blame for last seasons mess at the deadline. Even if they have an above average payroll you don't just cut off the spending when the team finally has a chance to make the playoffs especially when 3-4 million would of made a big difference.

 

And after the mess that Edward Rogers made this offseason its a valid argument Rogers is a bad owner. If the Blue Jays had an independent owner I think it is fair to say the club's payroll would be higher. The TV contract alone is probably worth close to 100 million on the open market with Rogers and Bell bidding.

[Mikeleelop]

I'm fine with the complaining about Rogers. When you account for market size and how much money Rogers makes from the Blue Jays its valid to say their payroll can be higher. Rogers absolutely deserves blame for last seasons mess at the deadline. Even if they have an above average payroll you don't just cut off the spending when the team finally has a chance to make the playoffs especially when 3-4 million would of made a big difference.

 

And after the mess that Edward Rogers made this offseason its a valid argument Rogers is a bad owner. If the Blue Jays had an independent owner I think it is fair to say the club's payroll would be higher. The TV contract alone is probably worth close to 100 million on the open market with Rogers and Bell bidding.

 

agree totally, top 10 payroll is not the relevant issue. its putting on the payroll restriction when the team is in playoff position and basically tying the hands of AA. that is ********

 

rogers has market share like the dodgers and Yankees but plays "small market" when push comes to shove - that is the issue

 

Go after the Cuban free agents now when the team is close - what difference would Oliveria make in the Jays lineup this year instead of the old cripple Izturis??? but jays won't - staying within their payroll parameters

[TheHurl]

Who the f*** is Matt Snyder?

 

Probably CBS's best writer. He came over from FanHouse last year.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I think the Jays are in a pretty good position. This year they can compete, but we are developing Sanchez, stroman, Norris and Hutch to figure out what they will be this year. We have controllable cheap players relatively speaking in Pompey, Donaldson, Saunders and eventually Travis whether that be this year or next. We have Hoffman and Osuna in the pipeline to supplement the other young pitchers if they should struggle. We have 20 mil coming off the books in Buehrle, 5 mil in Navarro, 2 mil from Izturis, 11 mil potentially in Dickey. We have our long term catcher locked up and Bautista and EE at reasonable cost for next year with Reyes in the fold as well. At the end of this year we have 38 mil coming off the books in a free agency year that will feature a lot of strong rotation arms. We can potentially go free agency to get a number 2 starter or even a number 1 and still have money available to address depth at the end of the year giving a rotation of new signing stroman, hutch and 2 of Hoffman, Sanchez, Norris, Osuna and the option to bring Dickey back at a reasonable cost if he pitches well this year or if they feel some of the young guys need more time in the minors.

 

We have reduced payroll instead of increasing it and that is giving us some flexibility next year and at this year's deadline.

 

Yeah, this pretty much sums up how I feel. I really thought a Shields signing would help us out with the loss of MB next year, but oh well. There is a ton of talent to draw from next year. I may consider signing someone like Soriano to a 2-year $8M deal to help the bullpen out, but it's not essential. I think Travis has a chance to join the team in June and do well, filling our hole at 2B.

 

I guess they only issue is the overall uncertainty. Expecting both Pompey and Travis, two rookies, to lead a team to a WS seems a little crazy. I'm not sure a team with two position rookies has ever gone to the WS.

[TwistedLogic]

I've wondered lately; why are people with names like ScientificReason and RealAccountant among the dumbest members of the board?

[Orgfiller]

I've wondered lately; why are people with names like ScientificReason and RealAccountant among the dumbest members of the board?

 

Because trolls lack creativity and just make up generic names?

[HERPDERP]

I knew I should have used kilace instead of the HERPDERP

 

no one takes me seriously

[saskjayfan]

Yeah, this pretty much sums up how I feel. I really thought a Shields signing would help us out with the loss of MB next year, but oh well. There is a ton of talent to draw from next year. I may consider signing someone like Soriano to a 2-year $8M deal to help the bullpen out, but it's not essential. I think Travis has a chance to join the team in June and do well, filling our hole at 2B.

 

I guess they only issue is the overall uncertainty. Expecting both Pompey and Travis, two rookies, to lead a team to a WS seems a little crazy. I'm not sure a team with two position rookies has ever gone to the WS.

 

The 2007 red sox had pedroia at 2nd in his rookie year and ellsbury came up that year and played in the world series....2nd and centre no less! Here's to hoping pompey plays all year and travis comes up at some point in june or july...we're just switching around which rookie plays all season and which one comes up half way through!

[BTS]

I knew I should have used kilace instead of the HERPDERP

 

no one takes me seriously

 

Nobody took you seriously as kilace either brah

[GD]

I knew I should have used kilace instead of the HERPDERP

 

no one takes me seriously

 

message admin to get it changed

[RealAccountant]

I've wondered lately; why are people with names like ScientificReason and RealAccountant among the dumbest members of the board?

 

Lmao

 

I would take offense to that if it wasn't so funny

[ScientificReason]

Seems half this board is illiterate....the payroll does not exist in a bubble, the payroll is what it is due to trades from 2 years ago. The issue is not payroll, the issue is now the team is "Close", thy wont go the extra mile for once to give this team a much more legit chance at ending the constant mediocrity that has taken over this franchise. Will it kill rogers to bump up payroll enough ONe season to have a legit playoff chance, which alone would increase revenue through tickets sales and get some much needed excitement around the org. it is not as simple "but but our payroill is already XXX".

 

There is no point in going almost all the way, either rebuild fully or go all in, this half way s*** is infuriating and pointless.

[ScientificReason]

I've wondered lately; why are people with names like ScientificReason and RealAccountant among the dumbest members of the board?

 

Yeah your a real internet tough guy, pathetic. I am willing to bet my IQ dwarfs yours. Anyone who trolls on the internet has the mental capacity of a child.

[BTS]

Yeah your a real internet tough guy, pathetic. I am willing to bet my IQ dwarfs yours. Anyone who trolls on the internet has the mental capacity of a child.

 

TwistedLogic has a math degree from Western. I highly doubt your smarter then him.

[ScientificReason]

TwistedLogic has a math degree from Western. I highly doubt your smarter then him.

 

I have a masters in Law.......sorry. All that proves is any idiot can cheat, BS there way through Western.

[BTS]

I have a masters in Law.......sorry. All that proves is any idiot can cheat, BS there way through Western.

 

TwistedLogic has a PhD in law, but it's worthless because who the f*** does a research degree in law?

[G-Snarls]

Confirmed: BTS has a crush on TL