Ownsership to blame for constant mediocrity

[ScientificReason]

From CBS sportlines, perfectly sums up whats wrong with this org.

 

 

They always seem to stop just short. Adding Russell Martin's excellent pitch-framing skills, leadership and on-base ability was beautiful, even if they overpaid (let's face it, you have to overpay to get your guy in free agency). The move to get Josh Donaldson was excellent and Michael Saunders was a nice, cheap add to the outfield after losing Melky Cabrera.

 

Scoring runs hasn't been a problem, though. Preventing them has. Sure, Martin will help and the Jays are obviously expecting major contributions from youngsters Drew Hutchison, Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez in the rotation, but R.A. Dickey and Mark Buehrle sit at the top. Innings eaters, sure. A playoff-worthy 1-2 punch? Not these days. Seeing the price that landed Shields, you wonder what if the Jays just went that extra mile. He's more innings eater than upper-echelon ace, but he'd have given them a big boost.

 

And what if ownership allowed bigger spending? Scherzer would've looked pretty nice at the top of the rotation with such promising youngsters. The bullpen could use a boost, too.

 

This one falls on the owners. Toronto's far too large a market to continue to allow management to spend just enough to get people's hopes before closing the check books.

 

Still, the Martin and Donaldson moves were very good

[jaysfan2014]

From CBS sportlines, perfectly sums up whats wrong with this org.

 

 

They always seem to stop just short. Adding Russell Martin's excellent pitch-framing skills, leadership and on-base ability was beautiful, even if they overpaid (let's face it, you have to overpay to get your guy in free agency). The move to get Josh Donaldson was excellent and Michael Saunders was a nice, cheap add to the outfield after losing Melky Cabrera.

 

Scoring runs hasn't been a problem, though. Preventing them has. Sure, Martin will help and the Jays are obviously expecting major contributions from youngsters Drew Hutchison, Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez in the rotation, but R.A. Dickey and Mark Buehrle sit at the top. Innings eaters, sure. A playoff-worthy 1-2 punch? Not these days. Seeing the price that landed Shields, you wonder what if the Jays just went that extra mile. He's more innings eater than upper-echelon ace, but he'd have given them a big boost.

 

And what if ownership allowed bigger spending? Scherzer would've looked pretty nice at the top of the rotation with such promising youngsters. The bullpen could use a boost, too.

 

This one falls on the owners. Toronto's far too large a market to continue to allow management to spend just enough to get people's hopes before closing the check books.

 

Still, the Martin and Donaldson moves were very good

 

Link?

[ScientificReason]

Link?

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25068053/grading-the-offseason-al-east

[jaysfan2014]

Bullpen yes, but Scherzer would've been an awful signing, especially once his velocity declines.. Washington is going to regret that signing.

 

And what does that make Boston? Their rotation lacks an ace or one with ace potential. And will that groundball rotation even work?

[saskjayfan]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25068053/grading-the-offseason-al-east

 

I think the Jays are in a pretty good position. This year they can compete, but we are developing Sanchez, stroman, Norris and Hutch to figure out what they will be this year. We have controllable cheap players relatively speaking in Pompey, Donaldson, Saunders and eventually Travis whether that be this year or next. We have Hoffman and Osuna in the pipeline to supplement the other young pitchers if they should struggle. We have 20 mil coming off the books in Buehrle, 5 mil in Navarro, 2 mil from Izturis, 11 mil potentially in Dickey. We have our long term catcher locked up and Bautista and EE at reasonable cost for next year with Reyes in the fold as well. At the end of this year we have 38 mil coming off the books in a free agency year that will feature a lot of strong rotation arms. We can potentially go free agency to get a number 2 starter or even a number 1 and still have money available to address depth at the end of the year giving a rotation of new signing stroman, hutch and 2 of Hoffman, Sanchez, Norris, Osuna and the option to bring Dickey back at a reasonable cost if he pitches well this year or if they feel some of the young guys need more time in the minors.

 

We have reduced payroll instead of increasing it and that is giving us some flexibility next year and at this year's deadline.

[BTS]

Who the f*** is Matt Snyder?

[BTS]

It's really unfair to blame ownership for not taking payroll to $150-160 million.

 

In 2013 they were 9th in payroll at ~$118 million. Pittsburgh (66), TB (64), Cincinnati (110), Cleveland (82), St. Louis (110), Atlanta (89), Oakland (68) all made the playoffs on a lower payroll.

 

In 2014 they were 10th at ~$132 million. Oakland (83), KC (92), Baltimore (107), St. Louis (111) and Pittsburgh (78) and Washington (134) all made the playoffs on less, or the same in Washington's case.

 

The point is that Rogers' commitment as far as payroll is concerned is absolutely fine. You don't need a top-5 payroll to be a good team. Many of the above teams are consistently in contention, and never spend in the top-5. The blame lies squarely on ineffective front office management. They've been provided with the resources, and have so far been unable to translate that into any kind of success. If you want to blame ownership for employing ineffective management, that's fair, but the payroll argument is silly.

[G-Snarls]

It's really unfair to blame ownership for not taking payroll to $150-160 million.

 

In 2013 they were 9th in payroll at ~$118 million. Pittsburgh (66), TB (64), Cincinnati (110), Cleveland (82), St. Louis (110), Atlanta (89), Oakland (68) all made the playoffs on a lower payroll.

 

In 2014 they were 10th at ~$132 million. Oakland (83), KC (92), Baltimore (107), St. Louis (111) and Pittsburgh (78) and Washington (134) all made the playoffs on less, or the same in Washington's case.

 

The point is that Rogers' commitment as far as payroll is concerned is absolutely fine. You don't need a top-5 payroll to be a good team. Many of the above teams are consistently in contention, and never spend in the top-5. The blame lies squarely on ineffective front office management. They've been provided with the resources, and have so far been unable to translate that into any kind of success. If you want to blame ownership for employing ineffective management, that's fair, but the payroll argument is silly.

 

Agree

 

Rogers/payroll are not to blame

[Angrioter]

It's really unfair to blame ownership for not taking payroll to $150-160 million.

 

In 2013 they were 9th in payroll at ~$118 million. Pittsburgh (66), TB (64), Cincinnati (110), Cleveland (82), St. Louis (110), Atlanta (89), Oakland (68) all made the playoffs on a lower payroll.

 

In 2014 they were 10th at ~$132 million. Oakland (83), KC (92), Baltimore (107), St. Louis (111) and Pittsburgh (78) and Washington (134) all made the playoffs on less, or the same in Washington's case.

 

The point is that Rogers' commitment as far as payroll is concerned is absolutely fine. You don't need a top-5 payroll to be a good team. Many of the above teams are consistently in contention, and never spend in the top-5. The blame lies squarely on ineffective front office management. They've been provided with the resources, and have so far been unable to translate that into any kind of success. If you want to blame ownership for employing ineffective management, that's fair, but the payroll argument is silly.

 

We suck. Trade Bautista for Profar!

 

Reyes 22M, Buehrle 19M

[flafson]

Funny, in the video they have the Blue Jays as B+ and in the text, they have us at B-. Edited February 16, 2015 by flafson

[jaysfan2014]

We suck. Trade Bautista for Profar!

 

Reyes 22M, Buehrle 19M

 

At least Buehrle is gone after this season. And Profar is heading towards bust material.. especially now that he's blocked by Andrus and Odor.

[Angrioter]

At least Buehrle is gone after this season. And Profar is heading towards bust material.. especially now that he's blocked by Andrus and Odor.

 

"Bautista for Profar" is a bluejaysmessageboard meme.

[G-Snarls]

"Bautista for Profar" is a bluejaysmessageboard meme.

 

True

 

Thank God we didn't do that trade

[BTS]

We suck. Trade Bautista for Profar!

 

Reyes 22M, Buehrle 19M

 

IIRC those rumours reached their height pre-2013 when the team was looking like complete trash, Profar was the consensus best prospect in baseball, and Bautista had just had his wort season as Jose Bautista. I think it was a pretty valid stance at the time. If the team was projecting at like 81 wins right now, most of the board would be in for moving him for Russell, Bryant, Correa, or Buxton. Profar was on that level.

[Angrioter]

IIRC those rumours reached their height pre-2013 when the team was looking like complete trash, Profar was the consensus best prospect in baseball, and Bautista had just had his wort season as Jose Bautista. I think it was a pretty valid stance at the time. If the team was projecting at like 81 wins right now, most of the board would be in for moving him for Russell, Bryant, Correa, or Buxton. Profar was on that level.

 

yeah.

 

Bautista for Domonic Brown rumour was gross.

[baseballsss]

IIRC those rumours reached their height pre-2013 when the team was looking like complete trash, Profar was the consensus best prospect in baseball, and Bautista had just had his wort season as Jose Bautista. I think it was a pretty valid stance at the time. If the team was projecting at like 81 wins right now, most of the board would be in for moving him for Russell, Bryant, Correa, or Buxton. Profar was on that level.

 

Profar was a top propect yah but was he really on Bryants level?

[saskjayfan]

Profar was a top propect yah but was he really on Bryants level?

 

in 2013 Profar was the number 1 prospect according to baseball America and Bryant was the number 8 prospect in 2014, so I would say yes. The fact that some prospects excel where others do not has to do with injuries, natural development and the combination of the two. Even the elite level prospect is not always a sure thing. That's what makes baseball so great.

[BTS]

Profar was a top propect yah but was he really on Bryants level?

 

Here's his BP writeup pre-2013 when he was the consensus best prospect in the game. Also pre-shoulder explosion. Plus everything at shortstop. I think Profar 2013 and Bryant now are similar.

 

"The Tools: 7 hit; 6+ arm; 6+ potential glove; 5+ power potential; 5 run

 

What Happened in 2012: After spending the 2011 season in Low-A, Profar jumped to the Double-A level to start 2012, and finished the year at the major-league level at the age of 19.

 

Strengths: Advanced instincts for the game; preternatural bat-to-ball ability; fluid swing from both sides; hard contact; hit tool projects as 7; natural pop; could be 5+ power at maturity; excellent pitch recognition skills/strike zone judgment; 5 run, but plays up in game action; glove is 6; arm is 6+; profiles as above-average major-league shortstop with above average major-league bat

 

Weaknesses: Playmaker with glove, but can struggle with routine balls he has to center; not a burner; at the plate, can try to do too much in the moment (all-star talent that wants to be an all-star on every play in every situation); his biggest weakness is that he doesn’t play for (insert favorite team here).

 

Overall Future Potential: 7; all-star player

 

Explanation of Risk: Low risk; reaches the major leagues at age 19; tools, skills, and feel for the game.

 

Fantasy Future: Could hit .300 with a very high OBP, 20-plus home runs, and steal 20-plus bases from a premium defensive position. Is that good?

 

The Year Ahead: From a scouting perspective, Profar is ready to play baseball at the major-league level. But organizational depth is a factor for the Rangers, and as promising as Profar’s defensive skill-set happens to be, Elvis Andrus is still the king at the position. Long term, Profar has a chance to be the superior player, with plus chops with the glove and a plus bat; the kind of player that every org in baseball dreams of acquiring. It’s not just the tools that Profar beings to the table that make him special, it’s the instincts and feel that not only allow game utility but push the tools beyond their paper grade. Only a few short years ago, Profar was widely considered a better pitching prospect than a positional talent, and several scouts and front office personnel were sure his desire to play shortstop would be short-lived and a return to the bump would be inevitable. How’d that work out?"

[Angrioter]

Here's his BP writeup pre-2013 when he was the consensus best prospect in the game. Also pre-shoulder explosion. Plus everything at shortstop. I think Profar 2013 and Bryant now are similar.

 

"The Tools: 7 hit; 6+ arm; 6+ potential glove; 5+ power potential; 5 run

 

What Happened in 2012: After spending the 2011 season in Low-A, Profar jumped to the Double-A level to start 2012, and finished the year at the major-league level at the age of 19.

 

Strengths: Advanced instincts for the game; preternatural bat-to-ball ability; fluid swing from both sides; hard contact; hit tool projects as 7; natural pop; could be 5+ power at maturity; excellent pitch recognition skills/strike zone judgment; 5 run, but plays up in game action; glove is 6; arm is 6+; profiles as above-average major-league shortstop with above average major-league bat

 

Weaknesses: Playmaker with glove, but can struggle with routine balls he has to center; not a burner; at the plate, can try to do too much in the moment (all-star talent that wants to be an all-star on every play in every situation); his biggest weakness is that he doesn’t play for (insert favorite team here).

 

Overall Future Potential: 7; all-star player

 

 

Profar is just 21

[BTS]

Profar is just 21

 

"Fantasy Future: Could hit .300 with a very high OBP, 20-plus home runs, and steal 20-plus bases from a premium defensive position. Is that good?"

 

Add in + range and arm at short.

 

http://media.funlol.com/pictures/15969.jpg

[Deadpool]

From CBS sportlines, perfectly sums up whats wrong with this org.

 

 

They always seem to stop just short. Adding Russell Martin's excellent pitch-framing skills, leadership and on-base ability was beautiful, even if they overpaid (let's face it, you have to overpay to get your guy in free agency). The move to get Josh Donaldson was excellent and Michael Saunders was a nice, cheap add to the outfield after losing Melky Cabrera.

 

Scoring runs hasn't been a problem, though. Preventing them has. Sure, Martin will help and the Jays are obviously expecting major contributions from youngsters Drew Hutchison, Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez in the rotation, but R.A. Dickey and Mark Buehrle sit at the top. Innings eaters, sure. A playoff-worthy 1-2 punch? Not these days. Seeing the price that landed Shields, you wonder what if the Jays just went that extra mile. He's more innings eater than upper-echelon ace, but he'd have given them a big boost.

 

And what if ownership allowed bigger spending? Scherzer would've looked pretty nice at the top of the rotation with such promising youngsters. The bullpen could use a boost, too.

 

This one falls on the owners. Toronto's far too large a market to continue to allow management to spend just enough to get people's hopes before closing the check books.

 

Still, the Martin and Donaldson moves were very good

 

Say what you will about the premise, but this is a garbage article.

 

NOBODY IN THEIR f***ING RIGHT MIND CONSIDERS DICKEY AND BUEHRLE THE 1-2 IN THIS ROTATION. Scherzer would have been a garbage signing at that price, and you basically just criticized the Jays for having 2 innings eaters as their 1-2, then suggested they should have signed Shields, who you just called an innings eater.

 

I'm with BTS, who the f*** is Matt Snyder?

[Spanky99]

"Fantasy Future: Could hit .300 with a very high OBP, 20-plus home runs, and steal 20-plus bases from a premium defensive position. Is that good?"

 

Add in + range and arm at short.

 

http://media.funlol.com/pictures/15969.jpg

 

lol...I couldn't see this thread, weird.

[Spanky99]

Ahh...makes sense now. Dogg thread.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

 

This guys brother maybe?

[Ambassador Ch0n]

Ahh...makes sense now. CHP thread.

 

There. Much better.

[Zaun of the Dead]

ownsership

[ScientificReason]

Ahh...makes sense now. Dogg thread.

 

I am not Dogg, wtf are you talking about? The mods can tell yuo this.

[Maahfaace]

I am not Dogg, wtf are you talking about? The mods can tell yuo this.

 

dont worry, i got accused of being said Dogg guy as well, seems to be the norm around here.....I wouldnt doubt if people have me on ignore still from the first time I posted in a thread and was accused of this.

[RealAccountant]

Very good read

[jays4life19]

dont worry, i got accused of being said Dogg guy as well, seems to be the norm around here.....I wouldnt doubt if people have me on ignore still from the first time I posted in a thread and was accused of this.

 

Did you understand the reference? Or did you think everyone here was just ghetto.