Around Baseball 2015

[Dr. Dinger]

But devil's advocate here - why Can't Billy Bean do the same? Sexual orientation has no bearing in the workplace, anywhere.

 

Isn't he the MLB ambassador to the gay community, or some s*** like that? Kinda seems like his job is creating this dialogue.

[BTS]

Isn't he the MLB ambassador to the gay community, or some s*** like that? Kinda seems like his job is creating this dialogue.

 

I had no idea that MLB had someone doing work like this, but it's very necessary. Dozens (hundreds?) of gay players pass through MLB clubhouses every year, and there has never been an openly gay player. Being uncomfortable introducing your partner to coworkers, who are likely also your best friends, would be terrible. MLB, and other major sports leagues, have a long, long way to go in this regard. The idea that Bean should 'keep his gayness to himself' is absurd.

[HERPDERP]

I have no idea what you mean by this. What is Bean doing that he shouldn't be?

 

I don't see anything wrong with Bean. Nor do I see anything wrong with Murphy. Criticizing Murphy for answering a question that was brought to him honestly is quite unfair. If we're going to criticize him for that then I think you have to criticize Bean (or maybe MLB) for bringing up the issue to begin with.

[intentional wok]

I don't see anything wrong with Bean. Nor do I see anything wrong with Murphy. Criticizing Murphy for answering a question that was brought to him honestly is quite unfair. If we're going to criticize him for that then I think you have to criticize Bean (or maybe MLB) for bringing up the issue to begin with.

 

Of course you can criticize him for his bigoted opinion. Why... shouldn't you? It's a pretty wide-spread opinion that affects the lives of those its aimed at.

 

Bean has every right to bring the issue up. This is not an even-keel dispute. One side is institutionally oppressed; the other is a majority opinion. One side doesn't want to be seen as second-class humans; the other flatly hates their existence and feels no shame in publicly stating it to the world. Like, there are political debates about whether or not homosexuals can marry. There are restaurant chains who refuse to serve them- and what's worse, the rest of the majority doesn't meaningfully penalize them by not buying their product. North American culture is a toxic cycle for this kind of thing.

[HERPDERP]

Of course you can criticize him for his bigoted opinion. Why... shouldn't you? It's a pretty wide-spread opinion that affects the lives of those its aimed at.

 

Bean has every right to bring the issue up. This is not an even-keel dispute. One side is institutionally oppressed; the other is a majority opinion. One side doesn't want to be seen as second-class humans; the other flatly hates their existence and feels no shame in publicly stating it to the world. Like, there are political debates about whether or not homosexuals can marry. There are restaurant chains who refuse to serve them- and what's worse, the rest of the majority doesn't meaningfully penalize them by not buying their product. North American culture is a toxic cycle for this kind of thing.

 

As I said earlier, Murphy probably was brought up and continues to this day to hold religious values. I'm not religious, but I can see how hard it is for people to come to agree with something that goes against their religion. Doesn't have to be about religion too - could be family values and upbringing that made Murphy the person he is today. I don't fault Murphy for having this viewpoint. There is still time for his opinion to change on it.

 

There is a great commentary on this topic. But instead of sexuality it was racism. I think everyone should take a listen to it.

[BTS]

I don't see anything wrong with Bean. Nor do I see anything wrong with Murphy. Criticizing Murphy for answering a question that was brought to him honestly is quite unfair. If we're going to criticize him for that then I think you have to criticize Bean (or maybe MLB) for bringing up the issue to begin with.

 

What? This isn't topic for which there are two sides with equally valid ideas. This is a situation in which a sizable portion of MLB players are uncomfortable being themselves because they fear institutional discrimination.

[intentional wok]

I somehow deleted the post I just made while editing it. Welp.

[BTS]

I somehow deleted the post I just made while editing it. Welp.

 

I seen it. It was solid.

[intentional wok]

Thanks, dude.

 

[Boxcar]

I somehow deleted the post I just made while editing it. Welp.

 

your dumn

[intentional wok]

Shut up, Box.

 

[BTS]

I've always liked that Lily Allen song.

[HERPDERP]

And that's totally fine.

 

Again, I don't find anything wrong with what Murphy said. I think he's been misinformed his whole life and I can see where his comments came from. Instead of criticizing an individual who was brought up in circumstances that shaped him, blame the environment, and hope that the current and future circumstances, environment and society that he will be in will help him change.

 

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[Statman]

It's funny because I always thought Lawrie had homo erotic tendencies while a Blue Jay and the GM that trades for him is Beane.

[GD]

It's funny because I always thought Lawrie had homo erotic tendencies while a Blue Jay and the GM that trades for him is Beane.

 

different

people

[Spanky__99]

It's funny because I always thought Lawrie had homo erotic tendencies while a Blue Jay and the GM that trades for him is Beane.

 

Derp!

[NorthOf49]

different

people

What percentage of people who read about this are unaware that there are two different guys? Most?

[Deadpool]

What percentage of people who read about this are unaware that there are two different guys? Most?

 

Burns: "Say, I wonder if this 'Homer Nixon' is any relation."

Smithers: "Unlikely, sir, they spell and pronounce their names differently."

[Stangstag]

Billy Beane is gay?

[GD]

Billy Beane is gay?

 

omg

[Deadpool]

Billy Beane is gay?

 

Didn't you see the movie? Single father? Girl has a nice singing voice (from listening to all those showtunes?)

 

Prrrreeeettty suspicious, if you ask me.

[jb22]

And that's totally fine.

 

Again, I don't find anything wrong with what Murphy said. I think he's been misinformed his whole life and I can see where his comments came from. Instead of criticizing an individual who was brought up in circumstances that shaped him, blame the environment, and hope that the current and future circumstances, environment and society that he will be in will help him change.

 

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

Upbringing and environment shouldn't suffice as an excuse for ignorance. He's a grown man, he should be able to think for himself by this point.

[Brownie19]

And that's totally fine.

 

Again, I don't find anything wrong with what Murphy said. I think he's been misinformed his whole life and I can see where his comments came from. Instead of criticizing an individual who was brought up in circumstances that shaped him, blame the environment, and hope that the current and future circumstances, environment and society that he will be in will help him change.

 

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

This is spot on...

[HERPDERP]

Upbringing and environment shouldn't suffice as an excuse for ignorance. He's a grown man, he should be able to think for himself by this point.

 

normally, yes, but when religion is involved it makes things a bit different

 

If we had a 35 year old veteran thats racist I'd totally agree

[Boxcar]

normally, yes, but when religion is involved it makes things a bit different

 

If we had a 35 year old veteran thats racist I'd totally agree

 

No, that's ********. What if that guy's dad was a member of the KKK or something and the kid grew up hating blacks?

[HERPDERP]

No, that's ********. What if that guy's dad was a member of the KKK or something and the kid grew up hating blacks?

 

if you listen to that commentary I posted last page, you'll see an example of that. The point is, these racists eventually have to work with colored people and have to deal with them frequently in society. At that point they may realize that they have been wrong and there is nothing different with colored people. If a top prospect continues to be racist despite spending years working with colored teammates, then something is wrong.

 

Bringing back to the sexuality comment, sexuality is not talked a lot about in baseball. It's just not something that relates to baseball or is visibly evident. So you can see how someone could have lingering feelings about a certain sexuality. Your religion reinforces it, and baseball community around you ignores it. So nothing happens. That's why I don't have an issue with what Murphy said. He was brought up with his religion reinforcing his attitudes, with nothing to counteract it.

[nmrch]

I don't understand the hate against Murphy and people who hate on him cause of his comments are just as close-minded as people who are homophobic.

 

The guy was brought up with Christian teaching. You can't just shut that off, especially when you're that religious.

 

Would you rather have Murphy come out and say he supports gays and lie to everyone? I appreciate his honesty.

 

If you guys are so open to hate on Murphy, then I truly await the time when Norris is asked the very same question.

 

I think you'll be surprised by the answer. He does seem to be a deeply religious man but he shouldn't be pigenholed, he's not the typical good ole boy from the south from what i've read about him. He has this openness to experience trait that you don't usually see in conservative religious people, i would be atleast somewhat surpised if he shared the same beliefs as he Daniel Murphys of the world.

[jb22]

if you listen to that commentary I posted last page, you'll see an example of that. The point is, these racists eventually have to work with colored people and have to deal with them frequently in society. At that point they may realize that they have been wrong and there is nothing different with colored people. If a top prospect continues to be racist despite spending years working with colored teammates, then something is wrong.

 

Bringing back to the sexuality comment, sexuality is not talked a lot about in baseball. It's just not something that relates to baseball or is visibly evident. So you can see how someone could have lingering feelings about a certain sexuality. Your religion reinforces it, and baseball community around you ignores it. So nothing happens. That's why I don't have an issue with what Murphy said. He was brought up with his religion reinforcing his attitudes, with nothing to counteract it.

 

Just because it isn't talked about openly in the baseball community doesn't excuse his ignorance on the subject. He still lives in the same world the rest of us do, in 2015.

 

Religion doesn't make it OK to make statements like "I do disagree with the fact that Billy is a homosexual" any more than if he were to state that he disagreed with the fact that a person is black. We know homosexuality isn't a lifestyle a person is choosing to live, whether this is discussed in baseball circles or not is completely irrelevant.

[intentional wok]

Bringing back to the sexuality comment, sexuality is not talked a lot about in baseball. It's just not something that relates to baseball or is visibly evident. So you can see how someone could have lingering feelings about a certain sexuality. Your religion reinforces it, and baseball community around you ignores it. So nothing happens. That's why I don't have an issue with what Murphy said. He was brought up with his religion reinforcing his attitudes, with nothing to counteract it.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the bold. Sexuality doesn't get talked about, but that's because most players' and coaches' sexuality doesn't differ from the norm. This does not apply for a homosexual, who lives everyday on the defensive about himself (or herself). It might not be an issue in the club house for most guys, but most guys aren't psychologically going through what a homosexual team mate might be going through. I've never experienced it, but I imagine it's a lot like trying to remind yourself constantly that you aren't a lesser person. I mean it would have to be; even god thinks you're an abomination. Standing up to god and public opinion is probably inconceivably difficult. I don't think any of us can really understand that, which is why I think it's important that we don't see this as a neutral, "let both sides keep their mouths shut" issue. One side loses nothing by the neutral atmosphere since it's the dominant group, but the other continues to live under the same judgment from the majority.

 

In other words, letting Murphy grow up and experience life against his prejudices before criticizing him is like asking everyone to go out of their way for the sake of his education. This is an extremely lop-sided arrangement, IMO, especially considering how many need to suffer his public verbal abuse (along with the public abuse of so many others). I absolutely agree that Murphy (and every human ever) is a product of his environment, and shouldn't be seen as inherently bad. But the social implications of not criticizing bad opinions is probably larger than most people realize.

 

Instead of asking the critics and victims to be patient, maybe Murphy (and everyone who might listen to him; don't forget he's a celebrity) should get cold-cocked with the truth.

[nmrch]

Just to add to the previous comment about Norris, doesn't sound like a RWNJ to me

 

HE HAS ALWAYS lived by his own code, no matter what anyone thinks: a three-sport star athlete in high school who spent weekends camping alone; a hippie who has never tried drugs; a major league pitcher whose first corporate relationship was with an environmental organization called 1% for the Planet. He is 21 and says he has never tasted alcohol. He has had one serious relationship, with his high school girlfriend, and it ended in part because he wanted more time to travel by himself. He was baptized in his baseball uniform. His newest surfboard is made from recycled foam. His van is equipped with a solar panel. He reads hardcover books and never a Kindle. He avoids TV and studies photography journals instead

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12420393/top-blue-jays-prospect-daniel-norris-lives-own-code