Around Baseball 2015

[L54]

I remember being on bluejaysway (a popular message board before the official forum mlb ones) and I called out so many people on foolish stuff and for being 2nd guessers. I even put it on my signature all their original quotes which embarrassed them. I got banned for that.

 

Good for you. Gotta stick to your guns, even if it results in a banning!

[L54]

I thought it was a horrible idea at the time. Why trade a superstar with 4-5 years of control for a prospect who's never played game in MLB? I still wouldn't trade Bautista for Bryant. I want to see this team win.

 

I understand the logic. Trading an aging superstar for an elite up the middle prospect.

 

Think Billy Beane trading Josh Donaldson for Barreto. Barreto might not be elite right now, but he could be a year from now.

[jays_fever]

It's not fair to 2nd guess. It's easy to say now not to trade him cause Profar is just as useless as Dominic Brown was, another #1 bust.

 

Would you do Bryant for Bautista though? Cause in 2 years, we could be saying that Bryant is just as bad.

 

Profar struggled in his rookie year at a young and has been unlucky with injuries, it has nothing to do really with him being bad.

[bendera3]

Why anyone would call a 21 year old a bust is beyond me. Bats would have been considered a bust if you judged him by his age 20 season.

[The Cats Ass]

If he had went to college wouldn't he just be getting drafted this year? Way too early to call a bust.

[Captain Adama]

I understand the logic. Trading an aging superstar for an elite up the middle prospect.

 

Think Billy Beane trading Josh Donaldson for Barreto. Barreto might not be elite right now, but he could be a year from now.

 

Except Donaldson is probably a better player than Bautista going forward, cheaper and under more control. While Barreto is atop 100 prospect. Bryant is the consensus number 1.

 

s***, that Donaldson trade is still so awesome.

[BTS]

Why anyone would call a 21 year old a bust is beyond me. Bats would have been considered a bust if you judged him by his age 20 season.

 

While this is true, I think Profar's issues are scarier than poor performance would have been. This will be two full seasons wiped out because his shoulder doesn't work.

[BTS]

Bautista for Profar was a no-brainer lol. Profar was just so good as such a young age and played the middle infield. If his shoulder fully recovers he should still carve out a lengthy career.

 

Yeah. That was right before 2013. The team was crap, Bautista had seen a 44% decline in offense from 2011, and we all thought payroll was sticking at like $80 million. At that payroll, there was no contending for at least 3-4 years, so selling high on your 32-year old star made sense. At the time, Bautista's shoulder was just as likely to fall apart as Profar's.

[ElNik2013]

IMO, the Blue Jays had 2 options after the horrible 2012 season: 1. Take a step back or 2 in the rebuilding/retooling they were doing (which would've meant trading Bautista and a couple others). 2. Spend money/prospects to speed up the contending process.

 

 

They chose #2, but had they chosen 1 and gotten Profar, they would be further away from contention than they are at this point.

 

And yes, 'spects are risky.

[BTS]

IMO, the Blue Jays had 2 options after the horrible 2012 season: 1. Take a step back or 2 in the rebuilding/retooling they were doing (which would've meant trading Bautista and a couple others). 2. Spend money/prospects to speed up the contending process.

 

 

They chose #2, but had they chosen 1 and gotten Profar, they would be further away from contention than they are at this point.

 

And yes, 'spects are risky.

 

#1 was the only option as far as fans knew at the time. There has been like an 85% increase in payroll since 2012, and this management group isn't shrewd enough to field anything close to a winner on 2012's payroll unless they had an army of cheap young stars all coming up at the same time.

[baubau]

With all this discussion of Profar, I am wondering, has the no. 1 ranked prospect ever been traded in MLB History? Not no. 1 for a team, but no. 1 overall in all of MLB. With the recent history of no. 1's (Buxton, Profar, Trout/Harper, Strasburg/Hayward, Weiters/Price, Bruce/Longoria, Dice-K/Gordon) none have been traded.

 

NOTE: I mean this before they made their MLB appearance. Not after they made the MLB lol.

[The Cats Ass]

With all this discussion of Profar, I am wondering, has the no. 1 ranked prospect ever been traded in MLB History? Not no. 1 for a team, but no. 1 overall in all of MLB. With the recent history of no. 1's (Buxton, Profar, Trout/Harper, Strasburg/Hayward, Weiters/Price, Bruce/Longoria, Dice-K/Gordon) none have been traded.

 

NOTE: I mean this before they made their MLB appearance. Not after they made the MLB lol.

 

Was Will Myers ever ranked #1?

[ElNik2013]

#1 was the only option as far as fans knew at the time. There has been like an 85% increase in payroll since 2012, and this management group isn't shrewd enough to field anything close to a winner on 2012's payroll unless they had an army of cheap young stars all coming up at the same time.

 

I meant more from management's standpoint. I believe the payroll increase was in large part due to the fact that the team would've been expected to lose 90-100 games going into 2013. This would've meant lower attendance, ratings and interest in the team. This was probably a major deciding factor in choosing option 2.

 

Also, the team did win 85 games in 2010, IIRC. Not saying that's a great accomplishment, but it would've likely put them in the 2nd WC race in 2012.

[TBJ12]

Bautista for Profar was a no-brainer lol. Profar was just so good as such a young age and played the middle infield. If his shoulder fully recovers he should still carve out a lengthy career.

 

Trading Bautista for Profar at the time was not "a no-brainer". Why risk trading a superstar with control for a single prospect? Profar is a perfect example of why you don't do it. I don't recall any 1 for 1 deals even close to what were discussing.

[King]

I remember the discussions being Bautista for Profar +, ​not straight up.

[King]

Well, people wanted it straight up; respected board veterans and newbies alike. Digiblader was the voice of reason haha: http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/515-Rangers-media-talking-Bautista-Profar-trade

 

Ang suggested JJ + Bautista for Olt + Profar + Ross + Alfaro + Martin Perez. In 2013 we probably thought a dynasty could be built around those five Rangers lol.

 

Jaysfan2014 if you didn't know!

[King]

Also North - What I was thinking of was after that. I remember CHP going off about how Profar was bad because he had a .230 average in his first stint in the MLB - he took a huge fat dump on the Bautista for Profar idea.

 

Good find!

[baubau]

Was Will Myers ever ranked #1?

 

Nope, think he got to the top 3 - 5, depending on the publication. But good catch! Forgot about him being traded to TB. Probably the most recent highest (top 5) ranked prospect traded. You could argue Russell as well I suppose from the A's though he wasn't ranked top 5 at the time of being traded.

 

I have it: Josh Hamilton was traded by the Cubs to the Reds before making his ML debut. 2001's no. 1 prospect. Some extenuating circumstances there though.

 

Relevant article: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=19162

 

Nice dig! Guess its really not often you see the top MLB ranked prospect get traded.

[King]

Jays are in contention and Bautista is a fringe MVP candidate on a cheap contract. Trading him would have ruined this season, especially if it was for Profar ( King's suggestion ).

 

And here's another instance, where I got into it with CHP regarding Bautista/Profar.

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/983-Reverse-Standings-Thread?p=107650&viewfull=1#post107650

 

and another one

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/1068-Trade-Deadline-Thread?p=104076&viewfull=1#post104076

 

and tons more, Profar for Bautista was pretty highly discussed.

[BlueJayWay]

[King]

 

....

[Stangstag]

 

....

 

Wtf

[L54]

Except Donaldson is probably a better player than Bautista going forward, cheaper and under more control. While Barreto is atop 100 prospect. Bryant is the consensus number 1.

 

s***, that Donaldson trade is still so awesome.

 

I was referring to Bautista a couple years ago for Profar, but I know what you mean. We can quibble on the rankings, but I was more just referencing trading an establish power bat for an up the middle prospect.

[Spanky99]

Who's MacArthur, not that moron from TSN? I call BS...although I would've liked to have been at this event.

[King]

Who's MacArthur, not that moron from TSN? I call BS...although I would've liked to have been at this event.

 

Yes the moron from TSN

[Spanky99]

Yes the moron from TSN

 

LOL...like he'd f***ing know, Zaun should've punched him in the throat and pissed on him.

[TwistedLogic]

There were a lot of posters around here who would have happily made that trade. Some didn't even think Bautista was enough if I recall correctly.

 

I don't think I was ever on this boat. I don't think I was ever all that high on Profar to begin with. I have a weird thing about shortstop prospects; they always seem to get overrated and I can't really remember the last great shortstop prospect to actually pan out. I wouldn't have traded Bautista for Profar then, and I probably wouldn't trade him for Russell now.

[GD]

Those three pace of play rules seem very reasonable, I actually like it a lot.

 

I remember the discussions being Bautista for Profar +, ​not straight up.

 

Bautista for Profar+Holland was a thing, I think.

[Atothe]

I was definitely one of those trade Bautista for profar++ guys, I'm happy he made me shut my mouth on that. Stud gonna stud

[Angrioter]

~14 Wins OF