From goat to hero in 3 moves

[Statman]

The OP actually had proper context for "goat". When you use it in the context of "greatest of all-time" you spell it like "GOAT".

[Deadpool]

The OP actually had proper context for "goat". When you use it in the context of "greatest of all-time" you spell it like "GOAT".

 

Yes, but these are "jokes". (I say "these" since the same joke was made twice in this thread. f***ing people and their lack of reading. Yeah, I'm looking at you, King!)

[Caper]

When was the last time he negotiated a killer extension for a player? You'll note that the answer to that is "not since Sartori left to work for Apple". If he gets credit for having Sartori on staff while those extensions took place (he should) he also loses credit for letting Sartori be poached. Front office talent retention is absolutely part of his job.

 

 

Sartori wants back in baseball pretty bad I hear. Someone should hire him.

[G-Snarls]

Who got Lawrie for Marcum in the first place - AA or JPR?

[Deadpool]

Who got Lawrie for Marcum in the first place - AA or JPR?

 

From Wikipedia... "...he was traded on December 6, 2010." and "On December 22, 2009, Anthopoulos traded reliever Brandon League..."

 

Assuming Wikipedia is correct (which it ALWAYS is, no joke!), then that was during AA's tenure.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

The Ninja despaired us and then, BAM! BOOM!BANG! Jack you're Dead! Lol

 

Bazinga Bitches! Ouzo n salvaki for everyone! Opa!

[Orgfiller]

Who got Lawrie for Marcum in the first place - AA or JPR?

 

AA, Lawrie trade was after the Halladay trade (and Morrow too).

[Slugger]

I'm sorry to say; but some of you guys are absolutely out to lunch here.

[Boxcar]

I tried looking for the marlins trade thread, but, unbelievably, the board is now even more of a pain in the ass to navigate.

[Dick_Pole]

Here's a comprehensive list of people in this world who thought Yan Gomes would evolve into a top 50 asset in baseball:

{}

 

Here's a comprehensive list of people in this world who thought Yan Gomes was a starting catcher:

{Yan Gomes' Mother}

 

In other words, of all the things you can criticize AA for, this hardly seems like the one to single out. If you think this was actually a more egregious transaction than either the Marlins or Mets deals, I can only suggest to you that you need to re-evaluate some things when it comes to the way you think about asset valuation.

 

When looking at the Gomes trade in isolation it seems like no big deal at the time, but it was a very irritating move in the broader context. Nobody cared about Gomes at the time because we were all slobbering over d'Arnaud. In a matter of a few weeks AA traded 3 of the team's 4 top catchers, kept what turned out to be the worst one of the four and got Thole in return. Had we all known what was going to go down in the following weeks I'm sure a few of us would have pointed out "hey, we should probably keep Gomes just in case".

 

The Marlins trade was a big investment and big gamble that blew up in his face. But at least it had a purpose. Like someone who lays down $1M for a condo in downtown Toronto that's going to be worth half that in a few years but can at least live in their poor investment.

 

Dumping Yan Gomes was like taking a $5 bill and burning it. A small move but completely pointless and it turned out costly. He was traded for a guy who was in the discount bin a few months before. I'm sure Cleveland would have taken any number of non-MLB players off the Jays hands for him that didn't play catcher.

[Dick_Pole]

I tried looking for the marlins trade thread, but, unbelievably, the board is now even more of a pain in the ass to navigate.

 

lol you f***ing crybabies and your old board.

 

Like checking up an old gf on facebook just to make sure she's gotten fat and nasty.

 

People just need to man up and admit what they thought about the trade so no one feels the need to go back to the old board for verification. I wasn't a huge fan of the trade but I loved what it represented - the Jays willing to spend to field a winner. MB was actually my least favourite of the three big players when he's been the most useful and I thought Bonafacio would bring some needed speed and positional variability to the team when all be brought was buffoonery.

[GD]

Re: Gomes deal, I was pretty pissed about trading Aviles. I liked Gomes as a bench piece and might not have traded him for Rogers in the first place, but throwing in Aviles too, a useful MIF who we'd need if Reyes got injured, was pretty dumn.

[Spanky99]

lol you f***ing crybabies and your old board.

 

Like checking up an old gf on facebook just to make sure she's gotten fat and nasty.

 

People just need to man up and admit what they thought about the trade so no one feels the need to go back to the old board for verification. I wasn't a huge fan of the trade but I loved what it represented - the Jays willing to spend to field a winner. MB was actually my least favourite of the three big players when he's been the most useful and I thought Bonafacio would bring some needed speed and positional variability to the team when all be brought was buffoonery.

 

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the value loss, but had a mean on for a long playoff push. I was pretty stoked.

[Caper]

I'd stop short of calling him obviously great. Sure he's done some great s*** this offseason, and years ago, but where were his smooth talking skills last offseason when he did f*** all?

 

He was doing what Ninja's do. Waiting in the weeds, ready to strike.

[Caper]

At the time the Marlins deal went down, pretty much every single Jays fan, as well as pretty much every baseball analyst thought that the deal was unbelievable for the Jays. Most who now criticize AA for that deal were most definitely praising him when that deal was announced. The same may not be true of the Dickey deal. No one could have predicted Josh Johnson would have played as s***** as he did and would miss that much time, or that all of those injuries would have struck crippling their season. To look back in hindsight and say it turned out to be not what was expected is one thing, but to criticize pulling the trigger on that trade at the time is craziness.

 

 

There was NO ONE in the media that was criticizing the trade. Not Keith Law.... NO ONE. There were a few people on the old board. But even then they certainly understood it.

 

Only after Josh Johnson fell apart did the hindsight analysis really begin.

 

People were literally trying to get the trade stopped. That's how bad they though the Marlins were fleeced.

[Caper]

And think about this.

 

No other GM even knew Donaldson was available.

 

AA is a very good GM. He has learned a lot as well.

[Caper]

Holy f***.

 

First off, the trade sucked balls both in context and in hindsight. That's already been said.

 

Nobody gives a soft turd about the baseball fight. That's just a hilarious point to bring up.

 

3.9 WAR in 2013 paid for his entire contract and then some.

Projected for 1.7 WAR in 2015, only getting paid $5M. Should return about $10M in surplus value next year.

 

Escobar sucks. If the value system tells you one thing about a player..... and then the same player gets a standing ovation in celebration of his being traded for a scrub short stop, then maybe the system you are using to evaluate the player isn't painting a whole picture.

[baloojayz]

Lind for Estrada and then Happ for Saunders??? Just sayin

[Caper]

Lind for Estrada and then Happ for Saunders??? Just sayin

 

What is it you are trying to say?

[Maahfaace]

Yeah that one was bad, but mostly in retrospect. Nobody cared at the time or thought Gomes would be as good as he's been.

 

Just think about the Pirates and Joey Bats, or the Reds and EE. Sometimes they slip through

[baloojayz]

What is it you are trying to say?

That people get so excited over so little. Just feels like as long as the trades are fair, AA could just take one man hole cover plug another manhole and move another cover to another and people will be in awe of his greatness temporarily, but pissed again when they figure out they still have the same number of holes in the ground. The only way THIS team is getting better is by spending money, unfortunately. The Martin signing would have been HUGE if it was JPA behind the plate. Navarro actually did an ok job.. The Donaldson trade would again be HUGE if we didn't already have a player capable of putting up 4+WAR at the same position, but we did and now we don't. Basically in the end we are a better team, but not by much and certainly not by enough to win the division. WAR is a terrible way to approximate how much we've improved.

 

Happ was about equal value to Estrada so basically we traded Lind for Saunders, meh at best. We saved some money for Rogers in the process, sure. Meanwhile we lost Melky and Rasmus, but we're better defensively so its all good right?

 

AA has much to prove yet.

Edited December 7, 2014 by baloojayz

[Frenchsoup]

That people get so excited over so little. Just feels like as long as the trades are fair, AA could just take one man hole cover plug another manhole and move another cover to another and people will be in awe of his greatness temporarily, but pissed again when they figure out they still have the same number of holes in the ground. The only way THIS team is getting better is by spending money, unfortunately. The Martin signing would have been HUGE if it was JPA behind the plate. Navarro actually did an ok job.. The Donaldson trade would again be HUGE if we didn't already have a player capable of putting up 4+WAR at the same position, but we did and now we don't. Basically in the end we are a better team, but not by much and certainly not by enough to win the division. WAR is a terrible way to approximate how much we've improved.

 

Happ was about equal value to Estrada so basically we traded Lind for Saunders, meh at best. We saved some money for Rogers in the process, sure. Meanwhile we lost Melky and Rasmus, but we're better defensively so its all good right?

 

AA has much to prove yet.

 

 

What would you have liked for him to do differently so far?

[Qwerty]

What would you have liked for him to do differently so far?

 

Baked me a sandwich

[G-Snarls]

Baked me a sandwich

 

Chicken parm you taste so good

 

http://youtu.be/P35T7WGu9i0?t=20s

Edited December 7, 2014 by G-Snarls

[Jimcanuck]

That people get so excited over so little. Just feels like as long as the trades are fair, AA could just take one man hole cover plug another manhole and move another cover to another and people will be in awe of his greatness temporarily, but pissed again when they figure out they still have the same number of holes in the ground. The only way THIS team is getting better is by spending money, unfortunately. The Martin signing would have been HUGE if it was JPA behind the plate. Navarro actually did an ok job.. The Donaldson trade would again be HUGE if we didn't already have a player capable of putting up 4+WAR at the same position, but we did and now we don't. Basically in the end we are a better team, but not by much and certainly not by enough to win the division. WAR is a terrible way to approximate how much we've improved.

 

Happ was about equal value to Estrada so basically we traded Lind for Saunders, meh at best. We saved some money for Rogers in the process, sure. Meanwhile we lost Melky and Rasmus, but we're better defensively so its all good right?

 

AA has much to prove yet.

 

Defense and speed on the basepaths are things. Lind is pretty much useless defensively. And a turtle on the basepaths.

[ElNik2013]

Re: Gomes deal, I was pretty pissed about trading Aviles. I liked Gomes as a bench piece and might not have traded him for Rogers in the first place, but throwing in Aviles too, a useful MIF who we'd need if Reyes got injured, was pretty dumn.

 

 

 

Except that the Jays didn't have Reyes at the time. They probably figured they'd sign Izturies (if they hadn't signed him yet), don't remember.

 

 

Anyway.

[ElNik2013]

Here's a thread from the "old board":

 

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Toronto_Blue_Jays/General/ST_is_over__The_moment_of_truth_arrived/ml-bluejays/89467.1?redirCnt=1&nav=messages

 

 

 

"Archer = Drabek"

[ElNik2013]

I tried looking for the marlins trade thread, but, unbelievably, the board is now even more of a pain in the ass to navigate.

 

 

Here you go sir:

 

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Toronto_Blue_Jays/_/_/ml-bluejays/87162.1

[jays_fever]

lol @ at anyone calling that Marlins deal a fleece at the time. They signed a bunch of free agents to massive contracts then traded the players..

[ElNik2013]

lol @ at anyone calling that Marlins deal a fleece at the time. They signed a bunch of free agents to massive contracts then traded the players..

 

 

 

Yup. However, the Jays were desperate to improve the team otherwise, they would've gone into 2013 expected to lose 90-100 games with lower ticket sales and tv ratings.

 

 

It's also doubtful that the Jays would've been able to sign top FA at the time since they seem to be on most players' no-trade list.

 

 

The trade wasn't franchise-crippling in the least and AA has rebuilt the farm.