Jays sign Martin - So what's next priority??

[Frenchsoup]

What's with the Aoki hard on here? Horrible defender with no power.

 

Pass.

 

I am with you, he is a scrub.

[GD]

I really don't see a situation where both Estrada and Happ are traded. Redmond has done a fine job in his role, but I'd be more comfortable with 2 swing men. Smoak intrigues me, but it's probably just his prospect pedigree colouring my opinion of him. Same reason I really liked the Reimold pickup last year.

 

I don't think we need to go quite as far as AG suggested either. Happ for Saunders and Navarro for just about any minor piece we can get back with little to no salary clears up about $11.5m and I'd be shocked if that wasn't enough for Headley.

[Deadpool]

What's with the Aoki hard on here? Horrible defender with no power.

 

Pass.

 

Obvious upgrade over our current situation, one of the few FA OFs available, and not expected to break the bank.

 

He's plausible, and an upgrade, that's why people would like him.

 

EDIT: And last year we had a horrible defender with no power in LF and a lot of people are trying to bring him back at twice what Aoki will cost... (Also, this is the first I've heard Aoki's D described as "horrible".)

[ScientificReason]

They keep on trolllingggg

Huh? Who is trolling? Everytime there is a difference of opinion it is trolling? I think you need to step away from the keyboard for awhile ., or learn what trolling is.

[Stangstag]

What's with the Aoki hard on here? Horrible defender with no power.

 

Pass.

 

He's AZN

[Stangstag]

Rotation is fine, top priorities should be:

 

1. An outfielder - either LF/CF, preferably a strong LF bat

2. Another infielder - preferably a decent bat that can adequately play SS or 2B, although a 3B would be alright

3. 1 or 2 bullpen arms

4. A number 1/2 type starter

 

IMO that should be the order of priority.

[Stangstag]

I would be overjoyed if we signed Jed Lowrie/Chase Headley and traded for a LF

[KingKat]

Obvious upgrade over our current situation, one of the few FA OFs available, and not expected to break the bank.

 

He's plausible, and an upgrade, that's why people would like him.

 

EDIT: And last year we had a horrible defender with no power in LF and a lot of people are trying to bring him back at twice what Aoki will cost... (Also, this is the first I've heard Aoki's D described as "horrible".)

 

Aoki ranks negatively as a CF but he ranks positively as a RF. He also, interestingly, ranks negatively as a LF but it's over a minuscule sample size. It's fair to assume he would be a significant defensive upgrade over Melky and he's a solid OBP guy who could fill Cabrera's role as a lineup table setter. He's just an average player really but he's an average player who fits pretty snuggly in an area of need. There should be other similar players (Saunders, Denorfia) available this off season so overpaying for him would be ill-advised unless the market completely dries out in which case overpaying for the marginal wins he represents might still make sense.

[Smokey]

Rotation is fine, top priorities should be:

 

1. An outfielder - either LF/CF, preferably a strong LF bat

2. Another infielder - preferably a decent bat that can adequately play SS or 2B, although a 3B would be alright

3. 1 or 2 bullpen arms

4. A number 1/2 type starter

 

IMO that should be the order of priority.

 

That really depends on what you're trying to achieve. If the goal is to simply get to the playoffs, then yes, the rotation is probably good enough to sneak you in (as long as the offense preforms). But without a legit front line starter that can be counted on in a one game scenario, this rotation is clearly not good enough for a team aspiring to win a championship.

[Deadpool]

Aoki ranks negatively as a CF but he ranks positively as a RF. He also, interestingly, ranks negatively as a LF but it's over a minuscule sample size. It's fair to assume he would be a significant defensive upgrade over Melky and he's a solid OBP guy who could fill Cabrera's role as a lineup table setter. He's just an average player really but he's an average player who fits pretty snuggly in an area of need. There should be other similar players (Saunders, Denorfia) available this off season so overpaying for him would be ill-advised unless the market completely dries out in which case overpaying for the marginal wins he represents might still make sense.

 

Yeah, that's sort of the impression I get about Aoki. A defensive upgrade over Melky and a lateral move (at best) with the bat. He'll probably be somewhere between Mekly 2013 and Melky 2014 with the bat, IMO; wouldn't shock me totally if he put up a better season with the bat than Melky in 2015, but I wouldn't bank on that either.

[Frenchsoup]

Obvious upgrade over our current situation, one of the few FA OFs available, and not expected to break the bank.

 

He's plausible, and an upgrade, that's why people would like him.

 

EDIT: And last year we had a horrible defender with no power in LF and a lot of people are trying to bring him back at twice what Aoki will cost... (Also, this is the first I've heard Aoki's D described as "horrible".)

 

I am sorry but I've seen him play and he's not a good defender, admittedly a sss. He has a lot of Rajai Davis in him which is a very little baseball iq. Let me refresh your memories.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33300667/kctor-aoki-hit-in-groin-by-foul-ball/?query=aoki

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33326441/kctor-francisco-plates-lind-with-double-to-right/?query=aoki

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33134097/kclaa-aybar-confuses-baserunner-aoki-at-second/?query=aoki

[KingKat]

I am sorry but I've seen him play and he's not a good defender, admittedly a sss. He has a lot of Rajai Davis in him which is a very little baseball iq. Let me refresh your memories.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33300667/kctor-aoki-hit-in-groin-by-foul-ball/?query=aoki

 

 

Wow... he whiffed on a sliding catch deep in foul territory miles beyond Melky's range. What a putz.

[RIPEXPOS]

You shouldn't have to waste 2 roster spots on a DH. If you do, Francisco is not the guy to bring back. He was beyond awful the last few months and hasn't proved he can hit in the majors after pitchers adjust to him. Add in the fact he would make over 2 million in arb. and he would be wasted money. Just non-tender him.

 

Technically both would provide depth on the corner infield. Considering Lawries and Travis versatility I think we could afford it.

 

It wouldn't have to be Francisco specifically, but a platoon at DH to keep costs down would allow us to allocate funds elsewhere.

[KingKat]

I am sorry but I've seen him play and he's not a good defender, admittedly a sss. He has a lot of Rajai Davis in him which is a very little baseball iq. Let me refresh your memories.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33300667/kctor-aoki-hit-in-groin-by-foul-ball/?query=aoki

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33326441/kctor-francisco-plates-lind-with-double-to-right/?query=aoki

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33134097/kclaa-aybar-confuses-baserunner-aoki-at-second/?query=aoki

 

 

And here's a play Melky doesn't make in his dreams: http://m.mlb.com/video/v36871617/ws2014-gm6-ventura-gets-morse-to-fly-out-to-right/?query=aoki

[Mikeleelop]

 Mike Wilner retweeted

 

 

Ben Nicholson-Smith ‏@bnicholsonsmith · 2m2 minutes ago

#BlueJays now have approx $110M committed to 2015 payroll. Estimated arb cost boosts that to $127.25M. Payroll in 2014 was $137M.

[Deadpool]

Technically both would provide depth on the corner infield. Considering Lawries and Travis versatility I think we could afford it.

 

It wouldn't have to be Francisco specifically, but a platoon at DH to keep costs down would allow us to allocate funds elsewhere.

 

I don't really know if Travis can be counted on for much versatility. He was briefly put into centre because he was totally blocked at 2B, I don't think he profiles as a particularly good defender anywhere but 2B, though someone correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

[Mikeleelop]

Can add net payroll after trades of $22M, and keep payroll at $150M for 2015.

 

here's hoping they increase payroll 9% this year!

[Mikeleelop]

I don't really know if Travis can be counted on for much versatility. He was briefly put into centre because he was totally blocked at 2B, I don't think he profiles as a particularly good defender anywhere but 2B, though someone correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

 

It was noted generally that he was an average defender at 2B. That would lead me to believe he's not a defensive wizard or terribly versatile.

[KingKat]

I don't really know if Travis can be counted on for much versatility. He was briefly put into centre because he was totally blocked at 2B, I don't think he profiles as a particularly good defender anywhere but 2B, though someone correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

 

That's my understanding as well. IIRC, the Travis to the outfield thing was more of an experiment than anything else. It gives him versatility but it would be the kind of versatility you'd use to provide in game coverage in a pinch not true versatility.

[RIPEXPOS]

It was noted generally that he was an average defender at 2B. That would lead me to believe he's not a defensive wizard or terribly versatile.

 

From what I've read and heard, talking to friends who are Tigers fans and hardcore draftnik and prospect fiends, Travis projects as an above average defender due to a tremendously high baseball IQ. Same way on the base paths (above average baserunner and base stealer despite only average speed). And tools are solid/good despite his small stature. The high baseball IQ likely translates into some versatility, though his ideal spot is definitely 2nd base.

 

The point though, is that Valencia is great against lefties, and can backup the corner infield. Having a lefty DH who can mash righty's would be a good way to keep costs down, while not losing much from the 5th spot in the batting order (with a platoon), and providing EE with some protection that noone currently on the roster can provide.

[Mikeleelop]

From what I've read and heard, talking to friends who are Tigers fans and hardcore draftnik and prospect fiends, Travis projects as an above average defender due to a tremendously high baseball IQ. Same way on the base paths (above average baserunner and base stealer despite only average speed). And tools are solid/good despite his small stature. The high baseball IQ likely translates into some versatility, though his ideal spot is definitely 2nd base.

 

The point though, is that Valencia is great against lefties, and can backup the corner infield. Having a lefty DH who can mash righty's would be a good way to keep costs down, while not losing much from the 5th spot in the batting order (with a platoon), and providing EE with some protection that noone currently on the roster can provide.

 

someone like Lind??

[RIPEXPOS]

Well yea. I didn't like that trade to begin with.

[z3r0s]

we really REALLY nee to trade Navarro. I can't comprehend why anyone thinks we should play him at DH. Way better players to spend 5M on and we can find a DH that can bat for a 100 wRC+ somewhere else for cheaper.

[Sammy225]

we really REALLY nee to trade Navarro. I can't comprehend why anyone thinks we should play him at DH. Way better players to spend 5M on and we can find a DH that can bat for a 100 wRC+ somewhere else for cheaper.

 

Navarro has more value in a trade then he does at DH.... He will be gone and we can put the 5M to better use.

[RIPEXPOS]

^Agreed for sure.

 

I wouldn't be against packaging Navarro with Hutch. I think Navarro by himself won't bring back anything we'd find particularly useful, and it might be time to sell high on Hutch, I worry about him remaining durable, and Hutch and Navarro combined could land us a real quality player. Perhaps a more legitimate top 3 starter.

 

It's not so much that I don't like Hutch, but rather of all the young talent on the roster that I'd be willing to deal, I'd be more comfortable dealing him than say Pompey, Stroman, or a top prospect.

[Frenchsoup]

And here's a play Melky doesn't make in his dreams: http://m.mlb.com/video/v36871617/ws2014-gm6-ventura-gets-morse-to-fly-out-to-right/?query=aoki

 

Your kidding right? That's a basic fly ball. Just because it's the world series and Joe Buck is making it sound like a difficult play, doesn't mean it is.

[KingKat]

Your kidding right? That's a basic fly ball. Just because it's the world series and Joe Buck is making it sound like a difficult play, doesn't mean it is.

 

I'm not saying it's the best play of his career or anything but it came up in the video stream after I watched those other plays and I think it illustrates something important. Seemingly routine looking plays like that are outside of Melky's range and they can really add up over the course of a season. The odd highlight real play weighs much less heavily on defensive value than simply having the range to get to more balls.

[kgm1]

Navarro has more value in a trade then he does at DH.... He will be gone and we can put the 5M to better use.

 

There is no doubt the 5 mil can be put to better use but does anyone really think we can get something for him ? As I posted in an earlier thread before the trade he is replacement level at best in a DH role mostly because I just am not sure they can move him. backup catchers/bench bats don't get 5 mil a year.

 

If you look at the teams that need a catcher, Dodgers, Cubs,and Rangers who do you think would take him

[KingKat]

There is no doubt the 5 mil can be put to better use buy does anyone really think we can get something for him ? As I posted in an earlier thread before the trade he is replacement level at best in a DH role mostly because I just am not sure they can move him. backup catchers/bench bats don't get 5 mil a year.

 

If you look at the teams that need a catcher, Dodgers, Cubs,and Rangers who do you think would take him

 

I'm in the minority here but I really won't hate it if the Jays are stuck with him. He's not the best possible DH but the fact that he can fill in at catcher and provide reasonable production if something goes wrong does have value. Martin and Thole with Navarro as a third catcher and spare bat with Jimenez in the minors isn't a bad setup at all if you ask me. It's good to have some contingencies in place.

[RIPEXPOS]

I'd much rather a Lind type to platoon at DH and give us great production out of the 5th spot in the order while protecting EE, than have Navarro DH/3rd catcher.