Gibbons: "Pompey would be Blue Jays CF if season started today"

[BTS]

dirks a full time player hahahahahaha

 

A healthy Dirks is probably the best LF on the team with Pompey in CF if he can still play defense. He's probably finished though.

[Atothe]

A healthy Dirks is probably the best LF on the team with Pompey in CF if he can still play defense. He's probably finished though.

 

Last time he got close to 500 pa he was worth 1.7 war, thats the best option? Think about that.

[BTS]

Last time he got close to 500 pa he was worth 1.7 war, thats the best option? Think about that.

 

In no way am I happy about the prospect of Dirks being the team's best LF.

[Atothe]

In no way am I happy about the prospect of Dirks being the team's best LF.

 

Gose can beat that without hitting a lick just on the strength of his defense, I would prefer him as 4th outfielder but Gose>>Dirks in a heartbeat

[BTS]

Gose can beat that without hitting a lick just on the strength of his defense, I would prefer him as 4th outfielder but Gose>>Dirks in a heartbeat

 

Gose is going to be like 20-25% below average offensively in LF. I'm not sure hes good enough defensively to be a 1+ win player out there.

[Atothe]

Gose is going to be like 20-25% below average offensively in LF. I'm not sure hes good enough defensively to be a 1+ win player out there.

 

Why would gose play Lf on this team unless they acquire an all star hitting CF. Gose in CF over Pompey

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

an outfield of Bautista, Pompey, and interchanging Gose/Pillar is imo borderline nuts for a full season. You'd get great defence but would be swearing at the TV more often than not when 2 out of that 4 came up to bat, maybe even 3 of 4.

 

Bautista, Pompey and legit OF and using either Gose/Pillar as the 4th OF is the way to go - with Gose/Pillar ready to step in in case Pompey goes sideways.

 

Imagine your Horror when Bautista starts at third base next year then and we roll with Rookies in the outfield! Lol

[BTS]

Why would gose play Lf on this team unless they acquire an all star hitting CF. Gose in CF over Pompey

 

If you pencil him in as a +5 defender he can probably give you 1-1.5 wins. You can probably squeeze league-average play out of a Gose/Pillar platoon. Unless one of them gets hurt and/or sucks balls. I actually don't hate the idea if LF is more reliable than a Dirks/Mayberry/Pompey triumvirate.

[Atothe]

If you pencil him in as a +5 defender he can probably give you 1-1.5 wins. You can probably squeeze league-average play out of a Gose/Pillar platoon. Unless one of them gets hurt and/or sucks balls. I actually don't hate the idea if LF is more reliable than a Dirks/Mayberry/Pompey triumvirate.

 

See this is why Gose as a 4th outfielder works, bring him in as a pinch runner and defensive substitute to build optimal value. I think gose can be a 2.0 war player with a max of 300-340 pa.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

So if Pompey is the starting CF, we have:

 

RF - Bautista

CF - Pompey

LF - Dirks

 

BN - Gose

BN - Mayberry

 

AAA - Pillar

 

I dunno, that's pretty uninspiring to me. Pompey has huge risk, Dirks' back is f***ed up, and Mayberry sucks. I think they really need to bring in one more player with bankable production.

 

Yup cheap n old Chris Denorfia it is! Can play all three spots and did I mention should come cheap! AA's wet dream! Lol

[BTS]

See this is why Gose as a 4th outfielder works, bring him in as a pinch runner and defensive substitute to build optimal value. I think gose can be a 2.0 war player with a max of 300-340 pa.

 

I agree. He's a perfect 4th OF.

[Jimcanuck]

I agree. He's a perfect 4th OF.

 

So Bautista RF, Pompey CF, Melky LF and Gose 4th OF?

 

Would mean no 2B or 3B upgrade

 

Lineup include Reyes, Melky, Pompey, Izturis, Navarro - 5 switchhitters

[Atothe]

So Bautista RF, Pompey CF, Melky LF and Gose 4th OF?

 

Would mean no 2B or 3B upgrade

 

I think we all know Melky isn't coming back

[Jimcanuck]

I think we all know Melky isn't coming back

 

Looks that way and probably for the best

[glory]

Gose is definitely an ideal fourth OF. If he could hit a little better he'd be a poor man's Jarrod Dyson, but his offense really drags his value down. I'd still be OK with a Gose/Pillar platoon to begin 2015, until Pompey is ready.

[guylaroche5]

honestly don't care if melky doesn't come back, wish we still lind though rip

[jaysblue]

I said to run a platoon in LF or CF. Not both.

 

Yeah you can run a platoon at one of the positions - it worked back in 2005 & 2006 with Reed Johnson and Frank Catalanotto. Having a platoon in both would be awful roster management.

[glory]

Dirks does not have a platoon split issue (career 104 wRC+ against RHP and 99 wRC+ against LHP). Even in the minors the only time he had a very big platoon split was 2010, otherwise he's been fairly split neutral. So assuming his back isn't FUBAR, they might be able to get away with playing him everyday, although he'd be average at best with the bat (again, assuming his back/hamstrings are not shot).

 

I think if Pompey starts in CF, and they insist on platooning Dirks, then Pillar should be the 4th OF, not Mayberry. Pillar brings more defensive value and can play an above average CF. If you're tight on money, then spending $2M on Mayberry is not worth it.

 

The Jays should shy away from platoons. I know it can be a way to maximize value, but too many platoons are not good, and it greatly reduces the effectiveness of the bench. If they do Gose/Pillar, then play Dirks everyday and live with the consequences. If Pompey wins the CF job, then do Dirks/Pillar. Just don't go overboard.

[BTS]

Dirks does not have a platoon split issue (career 104 wRC+ against RHP and 99 wRC+ against LHP). Even in the minors the only time he had a very big platoon split was 2010, otherwise he's been fairly split neutral. So assuming his back isn't FUBAR, they might be able to get away with playing him everyday, although he'd be average at best with the bat (again, assuming his back/hamstrings are not shot).

 

I think if Pompey starts in CF, and they insist on platooning Dirks, then Pillar should be the 4th OF, not Mayberry. Pillar brings more defensive value and can play an above average CF. If you're tight on money, then spending $2M on Mayberry is not worth it.

 

The Jays should shy away from platoons. I know it can be a way to maximize value, but too many platoons are not good, and it greatly reduces the effectiveness of the bench. If they do Gose/Pillar, then play Dirks everyday and live with the consequences. If Pompey wins the CF job, then do Dirks/Pillar. Just don't go overboard.

 

I just think we'd be expecting too much from his back. He's 29, when defense slides anyway, and is coming off disc surgery. It's just really hard to see him being good enough out there to provide value with a league average bat and neutral baserunning.

[Dick_Pole]

2.3 Bsr per Fangraphs

 

And the older, slower Reyes had 7.1 BSR in 2014 in a little over twice the PA, less than double the games. Rajai Davis, the man considered to be the dumbest baseball player in the league by some people on this board has 10.2 BSR in 2013 and in 2011 and 2012 when he was f***ing up a lot more on the base paths he still outpaced Gose's BSR in 2014.

 

Maybe bad baserunner is overstating it a tad, but he's been underachieving for sure, for a guy supposedly fastest on the team and maybe the league. For Gose to be useful he's got to be producing like Rajai's 2013. With what people have said on this thread about being content with him as the back up - it's pretty sad that his new career expectation is now to be the new Rajai Davis.

[Orgfiller]

And the older, slower Reyes had 7.1 BSR in 2014 in a little over twice the PA, less than double the games. Rajai Davis, the man considered to be the dumbest baseball player in the league by some people on this board has 10.2 BSR in 2013 and in 2011 and 2012 when he was f***ing up a lot more on the base paths he still outpaced Gose's BSR in 2014.

 

Maybe bad baserunner is overstating it a tad, but he's been underachieving for sure, for a guy supposedly fastest on the team and maybe the league. For Gose to be useful he's got to be producing like Rajai's 2013. With what people have said on this thread about being content with him as the back up - it's pretty sad that his new career expectation is now to be the new Rajai Davis.

While Davis probably doesn't have the highest IQ, he's an excellent baserunner, he rarely ever gets caught stealing and takes the extra base often.

[GD]

are we adjusting for playing time here

 

Spd scores > BsR for the purposes of this debate

[Dick_Pole]

The Jays should shy away from platoons. I know it can be a way to maximize value, but too many platoons are not good, and it greatly reduces the effectiveness of the bench. If they do Gose/Pillar, then play Dirks everyday and live with the consequences. If Pompey wins the CF job, then do Dirks/Pillar. Just don't go overboard.

 

Not to mention that this team's insistence on carrying 8 RP and having a pretty limited backup catcher in Thole will make platooning nearly impossible. Plus Rasmus and Lind are gone. If there's a guy who can't hit lefty pitching but is worthy of a starting role otherwise...f*** it...let him play everyday and leave the mashing to Encarnacion that day.

[Dick_Pole]

are we adjusting for playing time here

 

Spd scores > BsR for the purposes of this debate

 

Crudely...Reyes played "about" twice as much as Gose last year. Davis played a full season in 2012 but 2011 and 2013 he played slightly more than Gose in 2014.

[Dick_Pole]

While Davis probably doesn't have the highest IQ, he's an excellent baserunner, he rarely ever gets caught stealing and takes the extra base often.

 

Oh I know. I enjoyed Davis while he was here. He was entertaining to watch even with his quirks and I enjoyed his balls-out baserunning. Took me back to the Alomar days when his specialty was stealing third.

 

Gose has the tools to be at Davis' level in 2013 but has so far disappointed. That's where I think the whole "he's not even a good baserunner" argument comes into play. Ok, he's "good" compared to the average player but for a two-tool player his production on the basepaths outside of his cup of coffee in 2012 has not cut it so far.

 

That being said I really hope he takes the bull by the horns, earn that CF job that will be half-given to him in the spring and puts up fluky Dee Gordon type of numbers offensively next year.

[Atothe]

An average bat + above average baserunning + plus defense = a good player. That's what I expect out of Pompey in a full season. Conservatively say he gets 2.0 wins above replacement, I'll take it.

[Olerud363]

Yeah you can run a platoon at one of the positions - it worked back in 2005 & 2006 with Reed Johnson and Frank Catalanotto. Having a platoon in both would be awful roster management.

 

There was a time when they platooned hitters a lot more. 10 man bullpens and platoons all over the place.

[KingKat]

There was a time when they platooned hitters a lot more. 10 man bullpens and platoons all over the place.

 

I think you mean 10 man pitching staffs.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Does Gose's bat play in right field for you? Cause that's were it might be!

 

Especially if we get no upgrades to 2nd or 3rd this off season and I really believe Bautista might start at third!

[saskjayfan]

Does Gose's bat play in right field for you? Cause that's were it might be!

 

Especially if we get no upgrades to 2nd or 3rd this off season and I really believe Bautista might start at third!

 

 

Third base puts a lot more stress on Jose's body. He's getting older. He's our best hitter. His defense at 3rd is below average. His defense in RF is slightly better than average. There's almost zero chance that Jose will be at third.