Friedman to the Dodgers.

[GeorgiaPeach]

P.S. Love that tune.

 

Great song title for you and Sil' to mend fences

[GeorgiaPeach]

Montreal

 

Please no

[GeorgiaPeach]

I'm still swiping right

 

Here's a fan of tinder who could be a good fit for the Jays as seen in the subsequent video

 

 

[KingKat]

BTS never went anywhere. He kept posting in on this board. He just wasn't as active in threads like the Game Day threads and that was because of all the crap JFAS was taking and the overall quality of the threads than anything else. When the Jays are winning, it brings out a lot of casuals which of course it a good thing but it can make a lot of threads a chore to navigate. Plenty of veteran posters are more active when the board is quieter, this isn't a new trend or something exclusive to BTS but for some strange reason BTS is a bit of a lightning rod around here. He's the ring leader of a supposed groupthink (presumedly composed of people who like me who happen to disagree with him on all sorts of things but happen to like him and respect his opinion enough to have civil discussions). He's apparently a shamed Rays fans even though that narrative was started by people who were projecting their own belief in small sample sizes on to him. I mean if you know anything about BTS, do you know really think he would let one season influence how he views Friedman's body of work? That he would be suddenly ashamed of the Rays? We all known that Moogy will latch on to anything negative about one of his favorite targets (Bautista, BTS, the Rays) but that's Moogy's m.o. Why anyone else would latch on to this idiotic narrative is beyond me.

[TheHurl]

As a side note. Friedman will be dealing AJ Ellis...can anyone see him calling AA on that one.

[KingKat]

As a side note. Friedman will be dealing AJ Ellis...can anyone see him calling AA on that one.

 

I don't really see AA being in the market for a middling veteran catcher given the commitment already made to Navarro.

[Terminator]

Maybe all the new Dodgers fanboys can head to LA next season and catch a game with these longtime fans:

 

http://www.sondrakistan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Typical_Dodger_Fan.jpg

[Terminator]

As a side note. Friedman will be dealing AJ Ellis...can anyone see him calling AA on that one.

 

Yeah I agree. I could see him being in the market for a middling infielder like Justin Turner though. :-/

[Terminator]

BTS never went anywhere. He kept posting in on this board. He just wasn't as active in threads like the Game Day threads and that was because of all the crap JFAS was taking and the overall quality of the threads than anything else. When the Jays are winning, it brings out a lot of casuals which of course it a good thing but it can make a lot of threads a chore to navigate. Plenty of veteran posters are more active when the board is quieter, this isn't a new trend or something exclusive to BTS but for some strange reason BTS is a bit of a lightning rod around here. He's the ring leader of a supposed groupthink (presumedly composed of people who like me who happen to disagree with him on all sorts of things but happen to like him and respect his opinion enough to have civil discussions). He's apparently a shamed Rays fans even though that narrative was started by people who were projecting their own belief in small sample sizes on to him. I mean if you know anything about BTS, do you know really think he would let one season influence how he views Friedman's body of work? That he would be suddenly ashamed of the Rays? We all known that Moogy will latch on to anything negative about one of his favorite targets (Bautista, BTS, the Rays) but that's Moogy's m.o. Why anyone else would latch on to this idiotic narrative is beyond me.

 

You're making a strawman argument here.

 

I'm not latching on to Moogy's narrative nor do I think the fanboys were shamed Rays fans because of one season of poor play. All I'm saying is that the fanboys didn't post that much (some hardly at all) and it coincided with the Jays winning and the Rays losing. You called that comment of mine "nonsense" and called for me to be better than that but now you are apparently agreeing that they did in fact quit posting as frequently for the reasons you've stated above.

[KingKat]

 

You're being extremely unreasonable and irrational here ... intentional misrepresentation or just not aware of what actually happened? To quote the great philosopher and orator, DMX, "Here we go again ... same ole s***, just a different day."

 

I guess my experience was different from yours. I had plenty of talk with BTS in the fantasy threads all through his supposed dissapearance. He did complain quite vocally about the crap JFaS was taking in the GDT and that may be what turned him off to most of the board. You'll tell me that that's a generous interpretation and I'll tell you that anyone who calls him things like Queen BTS clearly has a bizzare and childish vendetta against him. We could go back and forth with these competing interpretations and if you're true to form, you might even promote the fallacy that a very detailed interpretation of events somehow isn't still an interpretation (like you like to do with Jose Bautisa's comments).

[KingKat]

 

You didn't interpret things correctly.

 

... and the Moogy interpretaion is always correct. In fact to call it an interpretation is practically absurd since its irrefutable. Ho-hum. Do you want to score yourself another point in your internal scorebook since this is a Sudoku like past time for you?

[Terminator]

Can a fanboy please explain to me why they love Friedman so much? Hurl, BTS, anybody?

[Boxcar]

Can a fanboy please explain to me why they love Friedman so much? Hurl, BTS, anybody?

 

Because he built the most successful team in the AL East for a third of the Yankee/Red Sox budget?

 

Come on.

[GD]

They believe hes the soul reason for the Rays success.

 

lol

[GD]

I did that on purpose you idiots lol.

 

lmao ok

[Terminator]

Because he built the most successful team in the AL East for a third of the Yankee/Red Sox budget?

 

Come on.

 

Friedman isn't a 70's era Bill James where he's one of just a couple of people on the planet who has a deep understanding of advanced statistics. The cat is out of the bag when it comes to sabremetrics and there is a whole generation of fans who have grown up embracing them.

 

The only reason Friedman stands out is because he is one of the statheads who was actually given the chance to use this advanced team building philosophy. Yes, he's very smart and a good GM but he stands out because not many teams are employing forward thinking front offices like the Rays do. What Friedman brings to the table isn't so unique that plenty of other people couldn't bring that same approach, save for Friedman's experience. Matter of fact, Friedman comes from a business and finance background and hires statisticians to do a lot of his heavy lifting. As baseball slowly embraces Friedman's modern approach, you'll see more and more Friedman-like GM's until eventually almost every team has one.

 

I would place a bet that there are hundreds of people out there who could build a winning baseball team, including some on this board. That's why it's so funny to me that Friedman has a cult-like following on this board. He's a dude who has good management skills, decision making, and is open-minded enough to employ forward thinking staff members around him. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who could be good GM's in the same way that Friedman is. Friedman's talent shouldn't be mistaken for someone like Jose Bautista. Being able to hit a baseball like Bautista is incredibly rare, being good at making decisions like Friedman is not as rare.

 

There is one front office decision that matters more than anything else right now, and that's ownership's willingness to embrace the modern team building philosophy. Friedman is gone, but the Rays are going to hire someone just like him and the dropoff won't be as nearly as large as people think (they could hire someone better for all we know) because their ownership embraces that philosophy. The Rays made a good decision in hiring their last GM, my guess is they can do it again.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Terminator

[Jimcanuck]

also, only the Rays can trade aging stars for a horde of young prospects and get away with it

[TheHurl]

Friedman isn't a 70's era Bill James where he's one of just a couple of people on the planet who has a deep understanding of advanced statistics. The cat is out of the bag when it comes to sabremetrics and there is a whole generation of fans who have grown up embracing them.

 

The only reason Friedman stands out is because he is one of the statheads who was actually given the chance to use this advanced team building philosophy. Yes, he's very smart and a good GM but he stands out because not many teams are employing forward thinking front offices like the Rays do. What Friedman brings to the table isn't so unique that plenty of other people couldn't bring that same approach, save for Friedman's experience. Matter of fact, Friedman comes from a business and finance background and hires statisticians to do a lot of his heavy lifting. As baseball slowly embraces Friedman's modern approach, you'll see more and more Friedman-like GM's until eventually almost every team has one.

 

I would place a bet that there are hundreds of people out there who could build a winning baseball team, including some on this board. That's why it's so funny to me that Friedman has a cult-like following on this board. He's a dude who has good management skills, decision making, and is open-minded enough to employ forward thinking staff members around him. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who could be good GM's in the same way that Friedman is. Friedman's talent shouldn't be mistaken for someone like Jose Bautista. Being able to hit a baseball like Bautista is incredibly rare, being good at making decisions like Friedman is not as rare.

 

There is one front office decision that matters more than anything else right now, and that's ownership's willingness to embrace the modern team building philosophy. Friedman is gone, but the Rays are going to hire someone just like him and the dropoff won't be as nearly as large as people think (they could hire someone better for all we know) because their ownership embraces that philosophy. The Rays made a good decision in hiring their last GM, my guess is they can do it again.

 

 

That's just it, he's not that much different than 100's probably 1000's of guys that are just like him, and maybe it's just right place right time for him but he didn't get his job through typical baseball means. Even Billy Beane came through the player route. Friedman was just like me and you, a fan who happens to be really, really smart (should re-word that as I'm not that smart). I knew so many guys in the investment world who didn't know half what I did about sports but I paired up with them to win money betting sports or playing fantasy because they could do what Friedman does. So what makes Friedman special compared to these guys. He's not playing fantasy baseball with me; he became a GM of a baseball team...and a winning baseball team at that. I'm sure that Friedman has some bias...but it certainly isn't obvious. I respect that a lot. If I had Nox's brain I'd certainly be pursuing a career in baseball but I'm sure I'd still have some bias.

 

I 100% hope that Tampa gets back to their winning ways though. It would show (or should show) the world that Friedman wasn't the sole (or Soul for Jonn) reason that they won, but the system that was put in place works. Then maybe, just maybe a few more teams will hire guys I know are as smart as Friedman and others like him.

[KingKat]

There is one front office decision that matters more than anything else right now, and that's ownership's willingness to embrace the modern team building philosophy.

 

You are absolutely right that it all begins with ownership. Look at Billy Beane, there's a reason he's stayed in Oakland. Ownership lets him do what he wants. He was even given the luxury of no less than 5 consecutive .500 or less seasons right in the middle of his ten year tenure. You only get that kind of rope from an organization that cares as much about cost cutting as about the product on the field. Beane's no idiot, he realizes that there's a kind of freedom that comes with not having the pressure to win all the time and he ultimately turned down the Red Sox job because all he really he wanted from them was recognition not the actual situation. Trying to stretch every dollar in Oakland is a challenge he relishes and he's good at it. He works well with the limitations put on him and the trade off for those limitations is more than off set by the fact that he's given more freedom to make mistakes than probably any other GM. And it's not at all crazy to think he works better with a limited payroll than he would with a large one. Limitations stimulate creativity (necessity is the mother of invention and all that).

 

As for Friedman, we really know much less about him than we know about Beane. As has been pointed out, he's a finance guy and of a for all we know, his long term ambition may have nothing to do with sports or he may indeed want to stick with baseball but have a career that's more in the Pat Gillick mould where you preserve your legacy by bailing at the first sign of the downturn. Things have definitely gotten more difficult for the Rays since baseball has eliminated the compensation system that they gamed so well. Things like picking up roster players in the Price trade could help to prop up the window for a little while longer but it will be really hard to keep it going without the kind of MiLB depth that they used to have. The challenge for the new GM will be to refine the approach, find new loopholes if there are any, do more with less picks and try to avoid a drought period as adjustments are made.

Edited October 16, 2014 by KingKat

[Jimcanuck]

i should expand on the above comment

 

with the Rays, Friedman was able to trade guys like Shields, Price, etc to maintain a steady flow of elite prospects. Rays ownership allowed this (encouraged?)

 

with the Jays, Friedman would not be permitted to trade Bautista, EE, or anyone else deemed too important to the fanbase by ownership. He may even be directed to give up prospects for Dickey.

 

the point is, the GM like every other working stiff takes direction from someone

 

Friedman is ballyhooed on here only because those he reports too allow him to follow an optimum team building approach. Many GMs would do the same if permitted

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I 100% hope that Tampa gets back to their winning ways though. It would show (or should show) the world that Friedman wasn't the sole (or Soul for Jonn) reason that they won, but the system that was put in place works. Then maybe, just maybe a few more teams will hire guys I know are as smart as Friedman and others like him.

 

I hope they suck, and we get a weak sister to beat up during the regular season like all the other division have. Also, then Maddon may not be retained and maybe the Jays hire him (although I would bet my life that the Dodgers sign him after 2015). And I also hope that attendance dwindles to nothing so they will move to Montreal. Can you imagine the Expos and Jays both in the AL East? Fun, fun.

[BlueJayWay]

I hope they suck, and we get a weak sister to beat up during the regular season like all the other division have. Also, then Maddon may not be retained and maybe the Jays hire him (although I would bet my life that the Dodgers sign him after 2015). And I also hope that attendance dwindles to nothing so they will move to Montreal. Can you imagine the Expos and Jays both in the AL East? Fun, fun.

Twould be awesome

[ElNik2013]

i should expand on the above comment

 

with the Rays, Friedman was able to trade guys like Shields, Price, etc to maintain a steady flow of elite prospects. Rays ownership allowed this (encouraged?)

 

with the Jays, Friedman would not be permitted to trade Bautista, EE, or anyone else deemed too important to the fanbase by ownership. He may even be directed to give up prospects for Dickey.

 

the point is, the GM like every other working stiff takes direction from someone

 

Friedman is ballyhooed on here only because those he reports too allow him to follow an optimum team building approach. Many GMs would do the same if permitted

 

 

I agree that "it" starts with ownership. However, Friedman deserves tons of credit as well. Shields was traded in 2012 and Price this past July so these 2 transactions are hardly the reason for their success since they just had their first losing season since 2007. I also don't think "many GMs would do the same if permitted", assuming you mean they'd have the same success as he's had.

 

No doubt the Jays' GM wouldn't be allowed to just trade the team's best players without taking into account what trading them would mean in terms of overall interest in the team.

 

In my mind, case in point was what the Jays did after the 2012 season. That team was in no position to go "all in". In fact, a case could be made that they should've done the opposite of what they did and gone for the full rebuild. However, some owners don't want to put up with 3 or more years of 90+ losses as well as lower attendance and tv ratings.

[ElNik2013]

There is one front office decision that matters more than anything else right now, and that's ownership's willingness to embrace the modern team building philosophy. Friedman is gone, but the Rays are going to hire someone just like him and the dropoff won't be as nearly as large as people think (they could hire someone better for all we know) because their ownership embraces that philosophy. The Rays made a good decision in hiring their last GM, my guess is they can do it again.

 

 

Pretty much agree. I've been saying something similar for a while which is why I don't much fret over AA anymore. Funny thing is, posters who I would guess are big Friedman admirers have taken exception to my indifference towards who the GM is.

 

At the end of the day, it's self-evident that Jays' ownership is content with how their team is being run since the current F/O will continue on.

[ElNik2013]

It will be interesting to see if: 1. The rumours that the Dodgers want to slash payroll are true. 2. Friedman finds another Colleti or AA to take on at least one of the bad contracts.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Montreal

Hopefully. I'd hop on the Expos 2.0 bandwagon so fast, the Jays' heads would spin.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Probably not...but at least one city is knocked off the list ahead of Vancouver and Montreal. You know eventually baseball is going to expand to 32 teams at some point in time. Man I can't wait for Canada to get another team because this ridiculous farce that the Jays are "Canada's team" can finally end. The Leafs are the most hated team across the country and Toronto is generally an object of derision for people outside the city in this country but for some reason our baseball and basketball teams are "Canada's teams". Also the team that does eventually come to Canada will be my second fav by default, a bit of an ironic twist there, except I like Montreal and can tolerate Vancouver.

The funny thing is that the Expos were Canada's real team. The Jays merely swooped in on some of the Expos' TV rights when they were accepted into the league, beginning the slow death of baseball in Montreal.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

And then what? Rays are going nowhere. Mediocre MLB roster and little help on the way from the farm.

 

"Good luck with Loney, Balfour, and the ghost of Heath Bell, bitches ... f*** all y'all, I'm audi"

"Going nowhere" on a $77 million budget > extending the playoff drought to 21 straight years on a $132 million budget while the idiots in charge have lifetime job security.

[ElNik2013]

"Going nowhere" on a $77 million budget > extending the playoff drought to 21 straight years on a $132 million budget while the idiots in charge have lifetime job security.

 

 

I guess they're both "going nowhere", it's just that one is getting more value out of it's trip than the other.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

I guess they're both "going nowhere", it's just that one is getting more value out of it's trip than the other.

It's also easier to swallow "going nowhere" when you were just in the World Series in 2008 as opposed to 21 straight years of no playoffs.