Top 3 Reasons for 2014 Failure

[GD]

the numbers are pretty f***ing reasonable. You've taken high school math. You don't have a degree in mathematics or statistics from a university. You're not even qualified to give that opinion. The people quantifying these numbers would acknowledge the vast margin of error associated with them. I've passed calculus and stats courses at a post secondary level. Remember, I'm old. I don't spend my entire day reading baseball websites, but it doesn't mean I'm not aware of sabermetrics or entitled to give an opinion on them.

 

How can you claim superiority when you haven't even read the f***ing article, man? You can do all the calculus in the world and be Moogy and Olerud but if you don't know what you're talking about why should anyone be listening to you?

[reedjohnsonfan]

I've been trying to get my hands on some Catcher PITCH F/X data so that I could look at the ideal locations of pitches versus what the catchers actually call.

 

Not that you need to be perfect to be useful, but you'd need to know how the pitcher is throwing that night/the last couple of innings, what type of batters they are facing, etc. There's lots of feel that goes into game calling, whether you think that's bull or not is debatable, but it would be hard to sell anything credible. That being said you have been looking into it, so perhaps I am completely wrong.

[GD]

Not that you need to be perfect to be useful, but you'd need to know how the pitcher is throwing that night/the last couple of innings, what type of batters they are facing, etc. There's lots of feel that goes into game calling, whether you think that's bull or not is debatable, but it would be hard to sell anything credible. That being said you have been looking into it, so perhaps I am completely wrong.

 

Yeah, there would have to be lots of adjustments. Ideally, there would be some data on where catchers set up pre-pitch.

[BTS]

Not that you need to be perfect to be useful, but you'd need to know how the pitcher is throwing that night/the last couple of innings, what type of batters they are facing, etc. There's lots of feel that goes into game calling, whether you think that's bull or not is debatable, but it would be hard to sell anything credible. That being said you have been looking into it, so perhaps I am completely wrong.

 

Yeah, the entire exercise seems like a mess.

[saskjayfan]

How can you claim superiority when you haven't even read the f***ing article, man? You can do all the calculus in the world and be Moogy and Olerud but if you don't know what you're talking about why should anyone be listening to you?

 

How do you know what I have and have not read..lol. Baseball's a pretty simple game in your world, isn't it!

[GD]

How do you know what I have and have not read..lol. Baseball's a pretty simple game in your world, isn't it!

 

If you'd read the article you'd have known the data was umpire-adjusted

[Abomination]

Not that you need to be perfect to be useful, but you'd need to know how the pitcher is throwing that night/the last couple of innings, what type of batters they are facing, etc. There's lots of feel that goes into game calling, whether you think that's bull or not is debatable, but it would be hard to sell anything credible. That being said you have been looking into it, so perhaps I am completely wrong.

 

I think in general you're correct. I don't see how you could account for enough to get meaningful results regarding game calling. The catcherFX data COULD be useful in evaluating framing though, as it might help show whether the pitcher should share credit for the framing results or not (regarding how well they repeatedly hit their target). The other major factors should be relatively easy to account for (umpire familiarity with the pitcher, pitcher stuff, pitcher reputation via previous success and control).

[saskjayfan]

If you'd read the article you'd have known the data was umpire-adjusted

 

You're right, I didn't read the article. Way to go Sherlock.

[GD]

You're right, I didn't read the article. Way to go Sherlock.

 

"How would you know"

"Because __"

"Wow good job Sherlock"

 

Lol. Just keep criticizing what you have no concept of and putting those calculus classes to waste. T'was fun as usual.

[wardhenke1]

1) The spine of the team was a problem all season long (a catcher who is a defensive nightmare, no second baseman of any note and not addressed in 2 years and a poor centre field)

2) The almost total lack of moves from winter to the trade deadline despite gaping holes in the bullpen, on the field and in the starting rotation.

3) Crippling the future of the franchise on 2 trades with Miami and the Mets that have not worked out at all. We have been nowhere near the playoffs with this core in 2 years.

[Arkadium]

This forum is a clubhouse cancer.

[GD]

This forum is a clubhouse cancer.

 

Your mom is a clubhouse cancer.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I just looked at the all mighty fangraphs and they have Navarro at a 2.0 WAR for the season. Navarro playing the way he did making 3 mil was the least of our worries.

 

Sadly Navarro having a solid 2014 over his career line at 30 means let's keep him. And when he underperforms in 2015 they'll let him walk away for nothing instead of moving him for something now.

[Smokey]

I don't know if you're being a smartass or just accidently posting in the wrong thread..RA just struck a guy out!..lol

 

sometimes I make a post thinking it's the gameday thread and realize after I had switched and was reading another thread by accident. It comes with old age...I guess I'm the only one who does that!

 

Navarro playing the way he did making 3 mil was the least of our worries... Both didn't go the way of the Jays because all Toronto sports franchises are cursed. If we just moved the team to Vancouver, all problems would be solved.

 

whoever is in charge next year should order less injuries..lol

 

that's just voodoo science you speak of..

 

It's difficult to cover for injuries better going into a season.

 

How can you even reference framing without mentioning the statistics for calling a great game.

 

Offensive statistics are park adjusted. Are framing statistics ump adjusted?

 

It's voodoo science I say.

 

the numbers are pretty f***ing reasonable. You've taken high school math. You don't have a degree in mathematics or statistics from a university. You're not even qualified to give that opinion. The people quantifying these numbers would acknowledge the vast margin of error associated with them. I've passed calculus and stats courses at a post secondary level. Remember, I'm old. I don't spend my entire day reading baseball websites, but it doesn't mean I'm not aware of sabermetrics or entitled to give an opinion on them.

 

How do you know what I have and have not read..lol. Baseball's a pretty simple game in your world, isn't it!

 

You're right, I didn't read the article. Way to go Sherlock.

 

 

Wow, so much stupidity all in one thread... Hide your kids folks, the Sasquatch has been unleashed!

[John_Havok]

Sadly Navarro having a solid 2014 over his career line at 30 means let's keep him. And when he underperforms in 2015 they'll let him walk away for nothing instead of moving him for something now.

 

Include framing and Navarro loses almost all his positive value. He should absolutely be moved for someone who actually knows how to be a catcher first. No doubt his bat was better than acceptable for a guy behind the plate, but let's face it, very other aspect of his game is awful

[Arkadium]

Wow, so much stupidity all in one thread... Hide your kids folks, the Sasquatch has been unleashed!

 

This is not helping out clubhouse cancer epidemic.

[GeorgiaPeach]

If MLB implanted a chip in every baseball to determine a ball or strike, eliminating the need for umps, would pitch framing exist?

[John_Havok]

If MLB implanted a chip in every baseball to determine a ball or strike, eliminating the need for umps, would pitch framing exist?

 

Nope, but sadly we don't live in that world and it does exist.

[Boxcar]

I am truly amazed at how many dumb people continue to post for the public. Do dumb people not realize their deficiencies? If you don't understand why the Jays were bad then shut up and learn from someone who does.

[Boxcar]

If MLB implanted a chip in every baseball to determine a ball or strike, eliminating the need for umps, would pitch framing exist?

 

Is this not obvious?

[SAAviour]

My top 3 reasons:

1)Shockingly bad defence at the most important defensive position on the field, SS.

2) shockingly bad defence at the 2nd and 3rd most important positions on the field, cf Colby and catcher.

3) making up for shockingly bad defence with all defense no bat players like Gose and Goins which somehow still improved the team in my opinion.

 

Reasons we will fail in 2015:

1) see above

2)see above regarding catcher

3)see above.

 

Go for 22 years next year?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Is this not obvious?

 

I'm actually hoping MLB does this so I don't have to hear that Rene Rivera or Ryan Hanigan is worth 75m a year.

[Boxcar]

I'm actually hoping MLB does this so I don't have to hear that Rene Rivera or Ryan Hanigan is worth 75m a year.

 

Ugh.

[TheHurl]

Your mom is a clubhouse cancer.

 

and by cancer he means whore.

[TheHurl]

If you are going to point out Delabar as a main reason for "disappointment" (disappointment for a team that is going to reach it's projected win total is an interesting concept), then why not take that a step further and say it's disappointing that the Jays did not cash in on trading their biggest relief assets in Santos, Casey and Delabar, in the past off season.

[GNick49]

Seemed like they couldn't play under pressure. Like now the bats have come alive once we were eliminated. Back in May they were best team in baseball. But a must win game they couldn't get it done

[GeorgiaPeach]

Ugh.

 

Sor-ry. I forgot who the s*** catcher was that the tag of 75m was placed on.

 

I was laughing so hard when that number was thrown out I forgot.

[GeorgiaPeach]

If you are going to point out Delabar as a main reason for "disappointment" (disappointment for a team that is going to reach it's projected win total is an interesting concept), then why not take that a step further and say it's disappointing that the Jays did not cash in on trading their biggest relief assets in Santos, Casey and Delabar, in the past off season.

 

But, but...they were playing well at the time. Kinda like how no one, and I mean no one wants to trade anyone who is playing well.

 

OMG you suggested we trade Edwin or Jose?!?!?!?!?! It's way too early they've got two years left on the contracts and they're destroying the ball.

[RealAccountant]

1. Jansenn going to Cuba and getting sick, blowing 4 games in the second half (Needed him to be pretty much automatic to stay in this thing)

2. Gibby being Gibby blowing games (Pompey for Goins pinch running, Morrow/Redmond being in important games, not being much of a motivator)

3. AA not doing anything in the deadline, when we were three games up, virtually signalling that he didn't believe in the team, and killing team morale

[RealAccountant]

If you are going to point out Delabar as a main reason for "disappointment" (disappointment for a team that is going to reach it's projected win total is an interesting concept), then why not take that a step further and say it's disappointing that the Jays did not cash in on trading their biggest relief assets in Santos, Casey and Delabar, in the past off season.

 

Trade in assets

 

They should have traded for assets, not being active at the deadline with three games up killed this team.

 

Employee morale is a thing,