A Simple Breakdown of Team Stats

[tercet]

Starters ERA - 4.04 (23/30)

Relievers ERA - 4.12 (24/30)

Runs Scored - 677 (5/30)

Fangraphs DEF - (-15.5) (23/30)

 

Cliffs: Our pitching/defense sucks, and our offense was surprisingly fine despite several black holes.

[Dylan]

What was our runs scored if you subtract may? .. and the cubs series.

[GD]

What was our runs scored if you subtract may? .. and the cubs series.

 

Irrelevant. They'd be irrelevant. Lol. Always look at the whole sample, Dylan.

[reedjohnsonfan]

The starters were okay. They basically have 4 mid rotation starters and a decent 5th, just missing the front end guy.

[reedjohnsonfan]

ERA unadjusted for park and league. Really telling!

 

FFS. Good hitting and bad pitching/defence. Do you have to nitpick everything?

[Nexii]

The Jays pitching wasn't good. Even if the offense was #1 they'd be fighting for a WC spot.

[RealAccountant]

Gibby has lost this team, they are playing like they are to get rid of him

[Abomination]

FFS. Good hitting and bad pitching/defence. Do you have to nitpick everything?

 

That's actually an important one. You can't reliably compare things if they aren't adjusted to be on the same basis. For example, it's uninformative to compare ERA of (say) the A's and the Rangers, since one plays in a massive park, and ERA doesn't adjust for the park (among other things).

 

Interestingly though, the Jays starters are also 23/30 in xFIP. However, the starters are 9th in WAR.

[reedjohnsonfan]

That's actually an important one. You can't reliably compare things if they aren't adjusted to be on the same basis. For example, it's uninformative to compare ERA of (say) the A's and the Rangers, since one plays in a massive park, and ERA doesn't adjust for the park (among other things).

 

Interestingly though, the Jays starters are also 23/30 in xFIP. However, the starters are 9th in WAR.

 

The thread title warned everyone that it was a simple breakdown, so it was kind of pointless calling him out is all I'm saying. If you want to go deeper, yes they've pitched a lot of innings leading to higher WAR than most teams. The starting pitching has exceeded my expectations this year and they are still not in the playoffs, go figure.

[Boxcar]

ERA unadjusted for park and league. Really telling!

 

Oh cut it out, Data. It's labeled "simple."

 

End result, it shows that the jays were not very good at preventing runs.

[GD]

Every year: Wow the Rockies are a really good hitting team but are terrible at pitching!

 

lol

[jays4life19]

Every year: Wow the Rockies are a really good hitting team but are terrible at pitching!

 

Haha. You're the best JFaS

[nextyear]

Starters ERA - 4.04 (23/30)

Relievers ERA - 4.12 (24/30)

Runs Scored - 677 (5/30)

Fangraphs DEF - (-15.5) (23/30)

 

Cliffs: Our pitching/defense sucks, and our offense was surprisingly fine despite several black holes.

 

In my opinion it shows that the offence was more than adequate, and having watching most of the games this year, the starting pitching and bullpen was also adequate. In my opinion, what really let the Jays down was the infield defence. It got to the point where it sickened me to watch the games; the pitchers would make the pitches and get ground balls and then the infielders would mess up on defence. Especially in the case of Mark Bruele who at one point had a good win loss record and then Reyes started making error after error.

 

One thing that Buck Martinez and Pat Tabler pointed out during the Baltimore series was that a strong defence doesn't just make fewer errors they also get to balls and save runs that a weak defence can't prevent.

 

Having Brett Lawrie back in 2015 will help, but I think the Blue Jays management has to realize the importance of a strong defence even if that means sacrificing something on offence by putting Goins at SS. They need to keep Francisco off the field and even consider trading Reyes if possible (although I like Reyes on offence, his defence has hurt the Jays).

[guylaroche5]

remember at the start of the year when buck and tabby kept saying our defense was godlike? and then lawrie got injured and it all turned to s***

[nextyear]

remember at the start of the year when buck and tabby kept saying our defense was godlike? and then lawrie got injured and it all turned to s***

 

It seems like such a long time ago that I can't remember that, although I like having Lawrie at 3rd or anywhere else on the infield (he plays like he is willing to kill himself or someone else to get to a ground ball - it is almost Happy Gilmore-like, I enjoy watching the hockey-like play of Lawrie in the infield)

[Maahfaace]

In my opinion it shows that the offence was more than adequate, and having watching most of the games this year, the starting pitching and bullpen was also adequate. In my opinion, what really let the Jays down was the infield defence. It got to the point where it sickened me to watch the games; the pitchers would make the pitches and get ground balls and then the infielders would mess up on defence. Especially in the case of Mark Bruele who at one point had a good win loss record and then Reyes started making error after error.

 

One thing that Buck Martinez and Pat Tabler pointed out during the Baltimore series was that a strong defence doesn't just make fewer errors they also get to balls and save runs that a weak defence can't prevent.

 

Having Brett Lawrie back in 2015 will help, but I think the Blue Jays management has to realize the importance of a strong defence even if that means sacrificing something on offence by putting Goins at SS. They need to keep Francisco off the field and even consider trading Reyes if possible (although I like Reyes on offence, his defence has hurt the Jays).

 

 

A manager really needs to have the balls to fill out a line-up card without worrying how it will effect a players ego, one of a few things Gibbons seems to lack. I can name a 100 managers that would of had Reyes playing 2nd base right out of spring training with the same roster, and I'm positive AA isn't blameless in this ridiculous decision either, to run out a tandem of Jose Reyes and Ryan Goins at SS and 2nd respectively. If Goins is out there with Reyes, their shouldn't be any question as to who starts at SS. Reyes ins't unmovable, but he's damn near close with his salary (22M), so him starting at 2nd next year is really the only viable option for the Jays.

 

2015 free-agent shortstops (option)

 

Mike Aviles *

Asdrubal Cabrera

Stephen Drew

Alex Gonzalez

J.J. Hardy

Jed Lowrie

John McDonald

Hiroyuki Nakajima *

Hanley Ramirez

Jimmy Rollins *

 

 

Not a whole lot to work with on the FA market, so I'm thinking hope for a trade to net some defensive quality at the SS position, or writhe in pain at the prospect of Jose Reyes fielding grounders on the left side of the infield if Gibbons is still in charge next year.

[G-Snarls]

remember at the start of the year when buck and tabby kept saying our defense was godlike? and then lawrie got injured and it all turned to s***

 

The IF was really good in April/early May

 

Lawrie was/is a stud at 3B

Goins was looking great defensively at 2B (hitting .100 though so he wasn't going to last)

Reyes hadn't started screwing up much yet

Edwin and Lind are no good at 1B but we already knew that

 

So yeah it looked pretty good at the time. But wasn't to last.

[nextyear]

The IF was really good in April/early May

 

Lawrie was/is a stud at 3B

Goins was looking great defensively at 2B (hitting .100 though so he wasn't going to last)

Reyes hadn't started screwing up much yet

Edwin and Lind are no good at 1B but we already knew that

 

So yeah it looked pretty good at the time. But wasn't to last.

 

Goins has an excellent 0.995 fielding percentage over 2 MLB seasons (2 errors in 371 chances/97 games - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goinsry01.shtml?redir). I wish the Blue Jays would have kept him at the Major leagues for all of 2014. Maybe having a good defensive player on the infield was a positive influence on Reyes as well?

 

In 2013 I remember thinking that Goins was a decent hitter and during 2013 he had a 0.252 batting average - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goinsry01.shtml?redir. I think that Goins just needs more experience at recognizing pitches before swinging, once he develops that ability he will probably hit consistently (just imagine Goins with Edwin's or Bautista's eye). I don't expect him to be a power hitter but just getting on base and timely hits will help the team offensively.

 

I wonder if the decision to send Goins down to Buffalo was Gibbons' decision or Anthopoulous'? The Blue Jays indifference to defense and obsession with offense really peeves me (they can get away with it at 1st base but not at two or three positions in the infield). Like Buck Martinez and Pat Tabler have said a few times, good pitching and good defense will shut down good offense every time. For this reason, I blame management for the Blue Jays troubles during the season. I actually don't think that it is Gibbons' fault but it is instead the fault of Anthopoulous for building a team that focuses on offense to the detriment of defense (does he think that the Jays fans can't appreciate good defense?)

[John_Havok]

Goins has an excellent 0.995 fielding percentage over 2 MLB seasons (2 errors in 371 chances/97 games - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goinsry01.shtml?redir). I wish the Blue Jays would have kept him at the Major leagues for all of 2014. Maybe having a good defensive player on the infield was a positive influence on Reyes as well?

 

In 2013 I remember thinking that Goins was a decent hitter and during 2013 he had a 0.252 batting average - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/goinsry01.shtml?redir. I think that Goins just needs more experience at recognizing pitches before swinging, once he develops that ability he will probably hit consistently (just imagine Goins with Edwin's or Bautista's eye). I don't expect him to be a power hitter but just getting on base and timely hits will help the team offensively.

 

I wonder if the decision to send Goins down to Buffalo was Gibbons' decision or Anthopoulous'? The Blue Jays indifference to defense and obsession with offense really peeves me (they can get away with it at 1st base but not at two or three positions in the infield). Like Buck Martinez and Pat Tabler have said a few times, good pitching and good defense will shut down good offense every time. For this reason, I blame management for the Blue Jays troubles during the season. I actually don't think that it is Gibbons' fault but it is instead the fault of Anthopoulous for building a team that focuses on offense to the detriment of defense (does he think that the Jays fans can't appreciate good defense?)

 

As long as the great defensive player carries enough bat that it doesn't offset his defensive contributions he ends up a replacement level or worse player, that's fine. Goins doesn't fit that profile unfortunately. His bat is that bad.