Offseason roster thread 2014

[GD]

Yeah. This article is amazing, lol:

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2022420240_mariners08xml.html

 

Now that's a model organization.

[BTS]

"Blengino said Zduriencik became obsessed with power hitters, ignoring defense, baserunning and roster construction. He said the GM also dismissed the importance of evaluating players within the context of their contract values.

 

Zduriencik then made him “look like an ass” in front of baseball operations brass in spring training 2012 after Blengino gave a presentation on possible benefits from advances in computerized hitting data.

 

“He nitpicked about font sizes and column widths,” Blengino said. “He did what he always does and made fun of something he couldn’t understand.”"

[GD]

Font sizes > contracts

[Orgfiller]

Oh my:

 

“But Jack never has understood one iota about statistical analysis. To this day, he evaluates hitters by homers, RBI and batting average and pitchers by wins and ERA. Statistical analysis was foreign to him. But he knew he needed it to get in the door.”

[BTS]

Oh my:

 

“But Jack never has understood one iota about statistical analysis. To this day, he evaluates hitters by homers, RBI and batting average and pitchers by wins and ERA. Statistical analysis was foreign to him. But he knew he needed it to get in the door.”

 

It's funny because you can see it in his roster construction.

[jays4life19]

Do you guys think Dioner Navarro will have any trade value? He's having an ok season with the bat. 93 wRC+, 310 wOBA. Right now he's 23rd among catchers with an 1.3 fWAR so there's defenitly room to upgrade especially when you consider his framing. (he's been one of the worst framers this year) http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1667334 . He makes a reasonable 5 million salary and a team like the Rangers might be interested in him.

 

Russell Martin would be an ideal candidate. One of the best catchers in terms of framing this year and is hitting really well this year. What do you guys think he would cost? I doubt he fits into Pitts budget since he's having a monster year. Catchers are one of the most valuable positions and it might be worth the $ to invest in a guy like Martin. The fact that he's Canadian makes it likely that he wouldn't make the Jays pay an extra premium to move his family up north.

[kgm1]

The Jays were the only team who thought Navarro anything more than a backup catcher bat off the bench. I said when they signed him his defense was horrible but all posters could think was we got rid of JPA . Bitch all you want JPA was always in shape.

 

The only ones I know that stated he was likely replacement level was BTS and ME.

 

We now are going to pay the laziest catcher in Baseball 5 mil and trust me NO one wants him. He is FAT and out of shape and LAZY. As decent as his bat has been he has cost us more runs than he produces IMO.

 

The biggest move AA could make to improve this team is signing Martin . Won't happen thou.

 

EDIT I might add that AA and Gibbons have never even heard of pitch framing or they would have never dealt Kratz

[burlingtonbandit]

Do you guys think Dioner Navarro will have any trade value? He's having an ok season with the bat. 93 wRC+, 310 wOBA. Right now he's 23rd among catchers with an 1.3 fWAR so there's defenitly room to upgrade especially when you consider his framing. (he's been one of the worst framers this year) http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1667334 . He makes a reasonable 5 million salary and a team like the Rangers might be interested in him.

 

Russell Martin would be an ideal candidate. One of the best catchers in terms of framing this year and is hitting really well this year. What do you guys think he would cost? I doubt he fits into Pitts budget since he's having a monster year. Catchers are one of the most valuable positions and it might be worth the $ to invest in a guy like Martin. The fact that he's Canadian makes it likely that he wouldn't make the Jays pay an extra premium to move his family up north.

 

 

I think Martin will get a deal in the 12-15 Million$ range on a 3 year deal. I am very in favour of signing him even if the bat is around 105 wRC+ which I think is a more reasonable projection going forward. As for Navarro I have no idea about his market. I would think we would have to kick in some money becasue he had a bigger year last year and got a 8 Million$ contract of which 5 million is owed this coming season.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

The Jays were the only team who thought Navarro anything more than a backup catcher bat off the bench. I said when they signed him his defense was horrible but all posters could think was we got rid of JPA . Bitch all you want JPA was always in shape.

 

The only ones I know that stated he was likely replacement level was BTS and ME.

 

We now are going to pay the laziest catcher in Baseball 5 mil and trust me NO one wants him. He is FAT and out of shape and LAZY. As decent as his bat has been he has cost us more runs than he produces IMO.

 

The biggest move AA could make to improve this team is signing Martin . Won't happen thou.

 

EDIT I might add that AA and Gibbons have never even heard of pitch framing or they would have never dealt Kratz

 

lol You are such a drama queen.

 

Yes, I'm sure you and BTS were the only ones who weren't super excited about Dioner Navarro.

[jays4life19]

The Jays were the only team who thought Navarro anything more than a backup catcher bat off the bench. I said when they signed him his defense was horrible but all posters could think was we got rid of JPA . Bitch all you want JPA was always in shape.

 

The only ones I know that stated he was likely replacement level was BTS and ME.

 

We now are going to pay the laziest catcher in Baseball 5 mil and trust me NO one wants him. He is FAT and out of shape and LAZY. As decent as his bat has been he has cost us more runs than he produces IMO.

 

The biggest move AA could make to improve this team is signing Martin . Won't happen thou.

 

EDIT I might add that AA and Gibbons have never even heard of pitch framing or they would have never dealt Kratz

 

He hasn't been replacement level though. He's not having a good season, but he hasn't been a disaster like JP was. (2013: JP's = -0.9 fWAR to 2014 Navarro probably around 1.7 fWAR). That's a decent upgrade, but that's not saying much if we want to be a playoff team.

[Frenchsoup]

I think Martin will get a deal in the 12-15 Million$ range on a 3 year deal. I am very in favour of signing him even if the bat is around 105 wRC+ which I think is a more reasonable projection going forward. As for Navarro I have no idea about his market. I would think we would have to kick in some money becasue he had a bigger year last year and got a 8 Million$ contract of which 5 million is owed this coming season.

 

He will get a lot more then that.

[kgm1]

I think Martin will get a deal in the 12-15 Million$ range on a 3 year deal. I am very in favour of signing him even if the bat is around 105 wRC+ which I think is a more reasonable projection going forward. As for Navarro I have no idea about his market. I would think we would have to kick in some money becasue he had a bigger year last year and got a 8 Million$ contract of which 5 million is owed this coming season.

 

Martin is the only FA front line catcher on the market . He will definitely get paid and will likely have his choice of two or three teams .

[burlingtonbandit]

He will get a lot more then that.

 

I think he could get more term than that but he only took a two year deal last time IIRC so he just strikes me as a guy who likes to take shorter term contracts. I don't think he gets a 5 year deal though.

[kgm1]

lol You are such a drama queen.

 

Yes, I'm sure you and BTS were the only ones who weren't super excited about Dioner Navarro.

 

And who else ? All you guys were gloating over getting rid of JPA and calling out AA for bitching that he had to give the fat bastard 2 years

 

Now I'm f***ing gloating over I told you so.

[kgm1]

He hasn't been replacement level though. He's not having a good season, but he hasn't been a disaster like JP was. (2013: JP's = -0.9 fWAR to 2014 Navarro probably around 1.7 fWAR). That's a decent upgrade, but that's not saying much if we want to be a playoff team.

 

Is that data including pitch Framing . I highly doubt it. The guy is a defensive disaster

[BTS]

He hasn't been replacement level though. He's not having a good season, but he hasn't been a disaster like JP was. (2013: JP's = -0.9 fWAR to 2014 Navarro probably around 1.7 fWAR). That's a decent upgrade, but that's not saying much if we want to be a playoff team.

 

If you trust the framing numbers, he probably has been replacement level. Matt Carruth has him at -14 framing runs, which takes his 1.3 fWAR down to -0.1. Even if he's not quite THAT bad, he's probably still worth less than a win all things considered.

[jays4life19]

He will get a lot more then that.

 

Brian McCann coming off an 2.7 fWAR season born in 1984 got 5 years and 85 million. Russel Martin coming off back to back 4+ fWAR seasons born in 1983 will get...paid?

[jays4life19]

If you trust the framing numbers, he probably has been replacement level. Matt Carruth has him at -14 framing runs, which takes his 1.3 fWAR down to -0.1. Even if he's not quite THAT bad, he's probably still worth less than a win all things considered.

 

That's fair. He's been complete s*** in that regard. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1667334 . He was better in 2013 though ( by a fair bit) http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1668164 . Regardless...I'm ready to move on from him and i think his 5 million contract is at least moveable.

[kgm1]

Brian McCann coming off an 2.7 fWAR season born in 1984 got 5 years and 85 million. Russel Martin coming off back to back 4+ fWAR seasons born in 1983 will get...paid?

 

Martin will get paid. No doubt as there will be teams like Texas desperate for a catcher.

[BTS]

That's fair. He's been complete s*** in that regard. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1667334 . He was better in 2013 though ( by a fair bit) http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1668164 . Regardless...I'm ready to move on from him and i think his 5 million contract is at least moveable.

 

Yeah. Even if you have to kick in like $2 million, I don't think you let that stop you from signing Martin. If Martin makes sense at like 3/30 or whatever he's going to get, he makes sense at 3/32.

[jays4life19]

Yeah. Even if you have to kick in like $2 million, I don't think you let that stop you from signing Martin. If Martin makes sense at like 3/30 or whatever he's going to get, he makes sense at 3/32.

 

Yeah. I think he's going to get a lot more then that though.

[burlingtonbandit]

At what point is the money too much to sign Martin? 3/50?

[jays4life19]

At what point is the money too much to sign Martin? 3/50?

 

*shrugs*

 

He's going to put up a close to 5 fWAR season this year and that's not including framing - and he's one of the best. Last year...he put up a 4.1 fWAR season. The dude has tons of value. I wouldn't blink at 4 years and 60 million.

[GD]

I would pay whatever it takes for Martin honestly.

[BTS]

Yeah. I think he's going to get a lot more then that though.

 

I dunno, he's really good at things that don't really pay on the market. He should have earned a lot more than 2/16 last time.

[burlingtonbandit]

*shrugs*

 

He's going to put up a close to 5 fWAR season this year and that's not including framing - and he's one of the best. Last year...he put up a 4.1 fWAR season. The dude has tons of value. I wouldn't blink at 4 years and 60 million.

 

I'm not saying your wrong and I would look pretty hard at doing that contract as well but I think this season he's over performed offensively by quite the margin. .341 BABIP is going to regress back to his .288 career avg and might decline even more with his speed declining. Also that 11.1 IFH% will decline as well and might be the reason for such the high BABIP.

 

His ISO is the second lowest of his career and looks to be steadily declining. His walk and K% are very good but we can expect regression as well. Even though he might be worth a contract like 4/60 because of framing you could raise the argument that you can acquire a very good framer who won't be worth as much, but will be better value for the money and the Blue Jays need to acquire as much cost effective wins as they can.

[jaysblue]

*shrugs*

 

He's going to put up a close to 5 fWAR season this year and that's not including framing - and he's one of the best. Last year...he put up a 4.1 fWAR season. The dude has tons of value. I wouldn't blink at 4 years and 60 million.

 

4/60?

 

I love Martin as well, though to give him $15 million annually over the next four years for his age 32-36 seasons is something I'm not for. Martin is fantastic defensively and his pitch framing is gold. I don't expect him to keep up this production offensively moving forward.

[jays4life19]

I dunno, he's really good at things that don't really pay on the market. He should have earned a lot more than 2/16 last time.

 

He was connected to steroids the last time he hit Free agency (when he put up his big 2007 and 2008) years and was coming off a 2.0 fWAR season ( 2.7 fWAR) the year before. If you think he's a 3 to 4 fWAR catcher with elite framing....he's going to get paid. See Brian McCann.

[jaysblue]

I'm not saying your wrong and I would look pretty hard at doing that contract as well but I think this season he's over performed offensively by quite the margin. .341 BABIP is going to regress back to his .288 career avg and might decline even more with his speed declining. Also that 11.1 IFH% will decline as well and might be the reason for such the high BABIP.

 

His ISO is the second lowest of his career and looks to be steadily declining. His walk and K% are very good but we can expect regression as well. Even though he might be worth a contract like 4/60 because of framing you could raise the argument that you can acquire a very good framer who won't be worth as much, but will be better value for the money and the Blue Jays need to acquire as much cost effective wins as they can.

 

Yeah you can acquire a good framer and it won't cost you 4 years/60 million, which is absurd. Martin isn't likely to keep up this offensive production over the next four years anyways, and you'd be paying him for his 32-36 age seasons. You can definitely expect regression. I think people on here are getting caught up with his 2014 stats. He hasn't been this good offensively since his 2007/2008 seasons, and considering the Jays payroll situation, giving him 15M AAV and giving him more money than Bautista and EE is absurd.

[jaysblue]

He was connected to steroids the last time he hit Free agency (when he put up his big 2007 and 2008) years and was coming off a 2.0 fWAR season ( 2.7 fWAR) the year before. If you think he's a 3 to 4 fWAR catcher with elite framing....he's going to get paid. See Brian McCann.

 

He won't get Brian McCann money on the market.