Lee & Utley or Price & Zobrist..Or no one, miss the playoffs, lose the fanbase!

[jays76]

Jays are at a pivotal point, they should completely go for it and re-energize this team and fan base. If they fail they can blow it up and replenish the farm in the offseason, or maybe even try for it one last time next season.. If management does nothing though and they miss the playoffs they'll lose the fan base and will blow it up in the off season or still retool for one last kick at the can anyways.

 

Imo you might as well go for it, because it's the same scenario either way with Edwin, Bautista, Reyes, Cabrera having only a couple years tops of good ball left.. except if you cheap out now and stay in this middle ground limbo you'll disgust and lose a huge portion of your fan base which will probably lose you more money in the long run compared to the money they'd cough up now bringing in either of those packages. They'd also blow a good window to seize this division for a few years..

[burlingtonbandit]

Those players you mentioned might not be traded because their team doesn't want to trade them. Useless thread.

[TheHurl]

Are the Jays a better team with Price and Zobrist if they don't have Hutch, Stroman and Lawrie? That is the "Price" or in around there. Price and Zobrist aren't an option. Price or Zobrist will still cost huge. Lee and Utley also have to want to come here...either one of them can block a trade to Toronto.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Why would a superior team trade assets like Price and Zobrist to an inferior division rival and weaken their own chances?

[Governator]

It's not going to happen, stop dreaming.

 

They'll get a Delabar replacement arm and then AA will tell the media that there weren't any fits for the organization and the asking prices would cripple the team. He'll then go and and say Morrow will be back soon for rotation depth and with Lawrie coming back we feel our 2B needs are solidified. We've discussed moving Bautista to 3rd with Reimold in right and feel we're a better team today than yesterday.

 

The end.

[HERPDERP]

Cliff Lee came off the DL a few days ago and pitched like s***. Apparently no pitch was above 90 mph

[jays76]

Those players you mentioned might not be traded because their team doesn't want to trade them. Useless thread.

 

Not really because the gist of the thread is to make a move regardless of the players, just fill the holes and go for it as the middle ground is certain death this year and next. If they can somehow pull it off with either of those packages great! If not maybe go to Arizona for Prado/Hill and Trevor Cahill or I'm sure they easily could've acquired Headley and Ian Kennedy wks ago. They must do something, anything. The tension is palpable in this city and the fans are ready to lose it!

[pickoff22]

As much as I would love Utley, he would block a trade to Toronto.

[baubau]

Imo you might as well go for it, because it's the same scenario either way with Edwin, Bautista, Reyes, Cabrera having only a couple years tops of good ball left.. except if you cheap out now and stay in this middle ground limbo you'll disgust and lose a huge portion of your fan base which will probably lose you more money in the long run compared to the money they'd cough up now bringing in either of those packages. They'd also blow a good window to seize this division for a few years..

 

Where did Rogers suddenly get the money to be able to acquire those guys... also, even if you "go for it", there is no promise that the team will make the playoffs and you've wasted significant controllable assets for years that may be the long term solution to this team consistently getting into the playoffs.

 

Imagine how awesome it would be to trade for Price/Zobrist, miss the playoffs, have Price leave after 1 1/2 years and having Pompey, Norris, Stroman continually beat the Jays for years on end... I am sure the fanbase would be energized by that.

[BlueJayWay]

k...

[Angrioter]

Denorfia, Kennedy and Ackley

[Deadpool]

Why would a superior team trade assets like Price and Zobrist to an inferior division rival and weaken their own chances?

 

Wait, I thought the Rays had Price and Zobrist. Did they get traded to a good team while I wasn't paying attention?

[jays76]

Where did Rogers suddenly get the money to be able to acquire those guys... also, even if you "go for it", there is no promise that the team will make the playoffs and you've wasted significant controllable assets for years that may be the long term solution to this team consistently getting into the playoffs.

 

Imagine how awesome it would be to trade for Price/Zobrist, miss the playoffs, have Price leave after 1 1/2 years and having Pompey, Norris, Stroman continually beat the Jays for years on end... I am sure the fanbase would be energized by that.

 

 

 

Does multi billion dollar Rogers who own their own Stadium & TV rights not have the capability to take on salary to capitalize on a very minute window to seize the AL East and make a run at a World Series? Don't get me wrong AA is great at being a double talk spin doctor but I'm sure you couldn't really believe that. They're cheapskate profit mongers in a boardroom who don't have the foresight to see that they will not only electrify a city but also make money if we can reach the post season.

 

I hate to break it to all of you but we already went for it prior to last season and we have to continue to keep "going for it". One thing we cannot do is get stuck in the middle, if we're starting from scratch with Sanchez, Pompey, Norris, Stroman, and Hutch then sell off all of the current assets and go in that direction so we have controllable assets and a young competitive team but if were not then somebody in upper management has to put their big boy pants on and "go for it" instead of treading water, pissing off the fans, and leaving yourself in limbo when we're a mere few games out of a playoff spot. If we take a shot and lose money this year (and maybe next if we go for it again) they can recoup it in the following yrs by having all of those young controllable assets you mentioned by having a fire sale which would include these players we acquire now via trade and our current roster. I don't even have to mention the names, if you combed through that potentially failed roster I'm sure we could fetch a decent young team via trades for plenty of years to come.

Edited July 23, 2014 by jays76

[KingKat]

Does multi billion dollar Rogers who own their own Stadium & TV rights not have the capability to take on salary to capitalize on a very minute window to seize the AL East and make a run at a World Series? Don't get me wrong AA is great at being a double talk spin doctor but I'm sure you couldn't really believe that. They're cheapskate profit mongers in a boardroom who don't have the foresight to see that they will not only electrify a city but also make money if we can reach the post season.

 

I hate to break it to all of you but we already went for it prior to last season and we have to continue to keep "going for it". One thing we cannot do is get stuck in the middle, if we're starting from scratch with Sanchez, Pompey, Norris, Stroman, and Hutch then sell off all of the current assets and go in that direction so we have controllable assets and a young competitive team but if were not then somebody in upper management has to put their big boy pants on and "go for it" instead of treading water, pissing off the fans, and leaving yourself in limbo when we're a mere few games out of a playoff spot. If we take a shot and lose money this year (and maybe next if we go for it again) they can recoup it in the following yrs by having all of those young controllable assets you mentioned by having a fire sale which would include these players we acquire now via trade and our current roster. I don't even have to mention the names, if you combed through that potentially failed roster I'm sure we could fetch a decent young team via trades for years to come.

 

Is Beeston going to go to Rogers and say "Dudes we f***ed up with your money and we need more because the opportunity to go for it may not come again for years.". I mean that's basically the scenario but Rogers would need their baseball person, Beeston, to relay that message. Does Beeston even fully comprehend the situation himself and even if he does will he tell the employers "there's a very minute window here after which we're basically f***ed". It's in Rogers interest to understand the situation but it's not necessarily in Beeston's interest to explain it (assuming he fully comprehends it himself).

[jays76]

Is Beeston going to go to Rogers and say "Dudes we f***ed up with your money and we need more because the opportunity to go for it may not come again for years.". I mean that's basically the scenario but Rogers would need their baseball person, Beeston, to relay that message. Does Beeston even fully comprehend the situation himself and even if he does will he tell the employers "there's a very minute window here after which we're basically f***ed". It's in Rogers interest to understand the situation but it's not necessarily in Beeston's interest to explain it (assuming he fully comprehends it himself).

 

I Lol'd, that was pretty good. I didn't factor in Beeston's logic or lack thereof into the equation.

[KingKat]

I Lol'd, that was pretty good. I didn't factor in Beeston's logic or lack thereof into the equation.

 

It's very easy to forget Beeston's role in this. AA doesn't go to Rogers for money. That's Beeston's job and it sometimes seems that some of the assurances that Beeston has given AA and the public at large about his ability to pry money from Rogers when needed may have been over-stated. It might have been better for the team if Rogers had just put a hard cap on the payroll and AA would have known exactly what he had to deal with without going through Beest instead of these "the money is there when we need it" vaguaries.

[baubau]

Does multi billion dollar Rogers who own their own Stadium & TV rights not have the capability to take on salary to capitalize on a very minute window to seize the AL East and make a run at a World Series? Don't get me wrong AA is great at being a double talk spin doctor but I'm sure you couldn't really believe that. They're cheapskate profit mongers in a boardroom who don't have the foresight to see that they will not only electrify a city but also make money if we can reach the post season.

 

You are right, I shouldn't have said "where did Rogers suddenly get the money" as they have it. I should have said, "why would Rogers spend more money" but you got it.

 

As for capitalizing on making a push for a profit, I am not sure how successful that train of thought is. How would Rogers set the expectations/projections of how much could be made? Take for example they agree to get a player and allow AA to spend. The combined salary of the players you are suggesting is likely over $10M*. Would Rogers be able to make that back with a playoff push? What about next season when the players salaries still count against the team and there are other holes that need to be filled (2nd base/3rd base, LF, CF).

 

I understand what you are saying, and I do believe that Rogers would make more money if the Jays made the playoffs. However, would that run offset the salary they would add? I think they still come up in the red and the reason why they are unlikely to add.

 

I hate to break it to all of you but we already went for it prior to last season and we have to continue to keep "going for it". One thing we cannot do is get stuck in the middle, if we're starting from scratch with Sanchez, Pompey, Norris, Stroman, and Hutch then sell off all of the current assets and go in that direction so we have controllable assets and a young competitive team but if were not then somebody in upper management has to put their big boy pants on and "go for it" instead of treading water, pissing off the fans, and leaving yourself in limbo when we're a mere few games out of a playoff spot. If we take a shot and lose money this year (and maybe next if we go for it again) they can recoup it in the following yrs by having all of those young controllable assets you mentioned by having a fire sale which would include these players we acquire now via trade and our current roster. I don't even have to mention the names, if you combed through that potentially failed roster I'm sure we could fetch a decent young team via trades for plenty of years to come.

 

AA did go in for it, and he failed. He made the wrong moves. Hindsight is 20/20. Though the Dicky trade was obviously bad from the start...

 

I wouldn't say we are "starting from scratch". The team has gutted its prospect pool already with the trades that have already been made. The Jays still have decent depth and probably rank middle of the pack in the league as far as prospects go. You shouldn't gut your future further for a potential shot of the playoffs. They aren't in the position like the A's or Dogers, playoff teams that can give up prospects for a push at the title. Jays are a fringe team that are pushing for the playoffs.

 

Either way, I think you and I just have a different perspective of where this team should go. I understand as a fan it sucks seeing your team not making the playoffs nor have any players developed to make up for the years of sucking. The Jays are stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. It is more telling of the staff they have and the eye for talent that they get.

[jays76]

It's very easy to forget Beeston's role in this. AA doesn't go to Rogers for money. That's Beeston's job and it sometimes seems that some of the assurances that Beeston has given AA and the public at large about his ability to pry money from Rogers when needed may have been over-stated. It might have been better for the team if Rogers had just put a hard cap on the payroll and AA would have known exactly what he had to deal with without going through Beest instead of these "the money is there when we need it" vaguaries.

 

 

 

That's exactly what's getting the fans so irate, there is no concrete declaration of the direction this team is heading in and frankly I'm not even sure they know themselves. I think they're taking a wait and see approach with the injured players returning and praying it turns around but it's a dangerous game for them if the whole house of cards crashes in. The ridiculous thing is even with this team completely healthy they're still a player or two away from making a serious push, it's baffling they wouldn't give it a go. And if it is indeed all about money they should've at least got a cheap rental like Headley to satiate the fans at minimal cost while giving the appearances they're trying their best to win. I mean if they stand pat and the team tailspins the PR damage will be catastrophic going into the off season.

[JaysFan4Ever]

Can anyone really blame Rogers for not wanting to hand the Jays more money? They handed them a large chunk when AA said the time was right, and here's the trades we're going to make, he made the moves, payroll went up to the highest it's been in years (if not the highest ever for the team) and it was a complete failure last year and this year they've fallen back to mediocrity. You have to figure someone is thinking why should we trust this guy again, allow him to spend more money, and cross our fingers hoping they can punch through when they began faltering even before the injuries hit?

 

As much as I would love the Jays to go out and get someone, or a pair of players to push the Jays to the playoffs and hopefully to the late rounds if not the Series, I don't really see it happening without a huge overpay. If they could get someone who's under control for at least a year and a half it's not that bad but going into the offseason the team will have more questions to answer with Rasmus, Melky both being FA to be, no one really to replace them, guys like Morrow. McGowan, Santos (though he's not off the roster) with options that could be declined and let go, along with the question marks that we have right now with 2B, the rotation, the pen. If you're going to take away prospects/the future for a chance now, you'd have to hope it wouldn't just be a rental or let's go this year and burn some more prospects in the process. It's a tough call, plus other teams have to be willing to agree on a price. Some teams might know that they can ask for more since the same players might be wanted by the Yankees, O's, or another team outside of our division. We'll have to wait and see.

[CJ-Freeway]

Management is taking a "let's wait and see when EE and Lawrie are back" approach. That's why no moves have been made yet. Still, a solid #1 starter would be needed to succeed in the playoffs. Stroman, Happ and Hutch are unpredictable. Oh, Dickey too.

[OtisNixonFan]

Management is taking a "let's wait and see when EE and Lawrie are back" approach. That's why no moves have been made yet. Still, a solid #1 starter would be needed to succeed in the playoffs. Stroman, Happ and Hutch are unpredictable. Oh, Dickey too.

 

Stroman unpredictable? What starts have you been watching? All he's done is be a quality start throwing machine.

[Jimcanuck]

Jays are putting bums in the seats with the current team

 

Hence, trading futures for what will probably be short term assets would be a dumb business move

 

If anything they should be making moves to get younger

[jaysfan2014]

Price and Zobrist aren't going anywhere now, with the Rays now only 4.5 back of a playoff spot because the Mariners don't have the bats to contend around Cano and Seager.

[jays76]

You are right, I shouldn't have said "where did Rogers suddenly get the money" as they have it. I should have said, "why would Rogers spend more money" but you got it.

 

As for capitalizing on making a push for a profit, I am not sure how successful that train of thought is. How would Rogers set the expectations/projections of how much could be made? Take for example they agree to get a player and allow AA to spend. The combined salary of the players you are suggesting is likely over $10M*. Would Rogers be able to make that back with a playoff push? What about next season when the players salaries still count against the team and there are other holes that need to be filled (2nd base/3rd base, LF, CF).

 

I understand what you are saying, and I do believe that Rogers would make more money if the Jays made the playoffs. However, would that run offset the salary they would add? I think they still come up in the red and the reason why they are unlikely to add.

 

 

 

AA did go in for it, and he failed. He made the wrong moves. Hindsight is 20/20. Though the Dicky trade was obviously bad from the start...

 

I wouldn't say we are "starting from scratch". The team has gutted its prospect pool already with the trades that have already been made. The Jays still have decent depth and probably rank middle of the pack in the league as far as prospects go. You shouldn't gut your future further for a potential shot of the playoffs. They aren't in the position like the A's or Dodgers, playoff teams that can give up prospects for a push at the title. Jays are a fringe team that are pushing for the playoffs.

 

Either way, I think you and I just have a different perspective of where this team should go. I understand as a fan it sucks seeing your team not making the playoffs nor have any players developed to make up for the years of sucking. The Jays are stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. It is more telling of the staff they have and the eye for talent that they get.

 

I'm not sure of the numbers breakdown but I'm sure attendance and TV ratings would go up prior to and then of course in the playoffs along with the merch going through the roof but honestly I couldn't really speak to that, next years payroll would be a challenge but all of the prior things I've mentioned should help offset. Hard to guage though, it would be pure speculation.

 

I understand the concern everyone has about mortgaging our future but I think we've already gone too far and now that the team is so close to the playoffs we need that extra push. If not we have to pray to catch lightening in a bottle with our returning players and young guns (Stro, Hutch, Sanchez) all contributing consistently. Hey it was a great game tonight but will it continue? For the sake of the fans I sure hope so because I think you're right, I really don't see this team making a move..

[Iluvbjs]

Can anyone really blame Rogers for not wanting to hand the Jays more money? They handed them a large chunk when AA said the time was right, and here's the trades we're going to make, he made the moves, payroll went up to the highest it's been in years (if not the highest ever for the team) and it was a complete failure last year and this year they've fallen back to mediocrity. You have to figure someone is thinking why should we trust this guy again, allow him to spend more money, and cross our fingers hoping they can punch through when they began faltering even before the injuries hit?

 

As much as I would love the Jays to go out and get someone, or a pair of players to push the Jays to the playoffs and hopefully to the late rounds if not the Series, I don't really see it happening without a huge overpay. If they could get someone who's under control for at least a year and a half it's not that bad but going into the offseason the team will have more questions to answer with Rasmus, Melky both being FA to be, no one really to replace them, guys like Morrow. McGowan, Santos (though he's not off the roster) with options that could be declined and let go, along with the question marks that we have right now with 2B, the rotation, the pen. If you're going to take away prospects/the future for a chance now, you'd have to hope it wouldn't just be a rental or let's go this year and burn some more prospects in the process. It's a tough call, plus other teams have to be willing to agree on a price. Some teams might know that they can ask for more since the same players might be wanted by the Yankees, O's, or another team outside of our division. We'll have to wait and see.

 

Very well put. I think this team really does need to stand pat and let their prospects develop. Even lose a few guys who have high trade value as a big bat going forward to other teams and build up our pitching prospects again. I think Stroman, Hutch and Sanchez are guys to build around. We just need to wait it out and see what happens going forward. If we could add a few young stud pitchers at the cost of either a Bautista or Encarnacion, then I'd be all for it.

[Governator]

I'm not sure of the numbers breakdown but I'm sure attendance and TV ratings would go up prior to and then of course in the playoffs along with the merch going through the roof but honestly I couldn't really speak to that, next years payroll would be a challenge but all of the prior things I've mentioned should help offset. Hard to guage though, it would be pure speculation.

 

I understand the concern everyone has about mortgaging our future but I think we've already gone too far and now that the team is so close to the playoffs we need that extra push. If not we have to pray to catch lightening in a bottle with our returning players and young guns (Stro, Hutch, Sanchez) all contributing consistently. Hey it was a great game tonight but will it continue? For the sake of the fans I sure hope so because I think you're right, I really don't see this team making a move..

 

 

The point of adding a starter is to replace Happ, not lose Stroman & Hutch in the process which is what it would cost to make a legit win now trade like going for Price. Cliff Lee would just block any trade to come here, not to mention the massive price tag that comes with him. The reason cheap trades happen is because a 2014 Chase Headley isn't getting anyone to the world series.

[jays76]

The point of adding a starter is to replace Happ, not lose Stroman & Hutch in the process which is what it would cost to make a legit win now trade like going for Price. Cliff Lee would just block any trade to come here, not to mention the massive price tag that comes with him. The reason cheap trades happen is because a 2014 Chase Headley isn't getting anyone to the world series.

 

 

I would only make that trade if they were packaging Zobrist, I could handle losing Hutch but Stroman would definitely hurt, I'd try to substitute Sanchez (for example- Hutch, Sanchez, Nolin, Pompey, Norris for Price & Zobrist). We add a CY pitcher and fill our 2B need to make a run at the playoffs. Is it a steep price? Perhaps. Would TB even do that? Maybe not. If it was a go though would you make that move?

[Jimcanuck]

I would only make that trade if they were packaging Zobrist, I could handle losing Hutch but Stroman would definitely hurt, I'd try to substitute Sanchez (for example- Hutch, Sanchez, Nolin, Pompey, Norris for Price & Zobrist). We add a CY pitcher and fill our 2B need to make a run at the playoffs. Is it a steep price? Perhaps. Would TB even do that? Maybe not. If it was a go though would you make that move?

 

the Rays would jump at that and run away laughing

[Governator]

I would only make that trade if they were packaging Zobrist, I could handle losing Hutch but Stroman would definitely hurt, I'd try to substitute Sanchez (for example- Hutch, Sanchez, Nolin, Pompey, Norris for Price & Zobrist). We add a CY pitcher and fill our 2B need to make a run at the playoffs. Is it a steep price? Perhaps. Would TB even do that? Maybe not. If it was a go though would you make that move?

 

smh

 

Considering the Cubs targeted Stroman & Hutch + for Samardzja, Price+Zobrist is going to gut everything we have and then some. Would I made that move above? Not a chance.

 

Ride the season out and hopefully get a streak going with healthy players returning. Fire AA in the off season, bring in a GM with the balls to fire sell the team and build around every player talked about in this post + Lawrie. I'll be a satisfied fan seeing the Jays just play meaningful ball this September while creating a bright future in the off season then a gutted team for a wild card playoff berth.

[jays76]

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/

watch%3Fv%3D2Hdx9JjzDfo&sa=U&ei=19XQU7iGN

 

Your right the Dream Weaver is the exact pitcher we need but I don't think the Angels are dealing right now.