Morrow to Bullpen?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Ya bud. Aging diabetic who can't even throw 100 innings.

 

Good luck with that.

 

As much as I dislike the importance heaped on relievers they're major league players.

[GeorgiaPeach]

What's to lose by bringing him back in a pen role this year while still allowing him to try and complete for a starting job next year? If he doesn't win a starting role, back to the pen. Maybe focusing on 1-2 pitches got 1 inning is the way to go. With his velo he could be very effective in that role.

 

I'm on board with this idea, as long as its only for 2015. There isn't a chance in hell I would extend him beyond 2015. IMO his starting days are done and the Jays paying upwards of 10 mil for a RP is dumb roster and financial management.

[GeorgiaPeach]

My opinion is bring him back into the rotation this year and give him next year as he has a $10m option and we're stuck between a rock and a hard place on that (keep him and pay $10m for a reliever, which a has surplus value potential I GUESS if we're being optimistic on him, or see him get a starting gig somewhere else) but after next year, put him in the pen. Hopefully we'll have more starting depth then with Norris, Sanchez, Nolin and others potentially being able to contribute, and I feel like Morrow would be one of the best relievers in the game. But I do want to give him one more shot at starting.

 

But yeah, Morrow in the bullpen could be sheer madness.

 

For an organization who hasn't shown a willingness to spend at a level with the big teams, why would the Jays be smart to allocate 10+m to a BP arm? I'd rather they put that money towards a SP or bat.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

This shouldn't be about realizing Morrow's individual value moving forward anymore, it should be about amassing team wins.

 

I think its highly debateable that Morrow's health will get to the point where he's a more valuable rotation piece than Happ, as sad as that sounds.

 

Ultimately this team needs a better option than both of them, and the worst decision they could make is to stand pat because Morrow "is on his way back".

 

This is my entire point. He clearly cannot start anymore. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Just get WHATEVER you can out of him.

 

The argument of him providing more value in ~10 starts than being kept in the pen is pretty debatable. Over the last two years he has had 16 starts and only threw six innings six times (aka he taxes the s*** out of our bullpen when he starts).

 

Diabetes is a real thing. Time to move on.

[GeorgiaPeach]

This shouldn't be about realizing Morrow's individual value moving forward anymore, it should be about amassing team wins.

 

I think its highly debateable that Morrow's health will get to the point where he's a more valuable rotation piece than Happ, as sad as that sounds.

 

Ultimately this team needs a better option than both of them, and the worst decision they could make is to stand pat because Morrow "is on his way back".

 

The worst option IMO would be overpaying with prospects for a push.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Just because he isn't always healthy and on the mound doesn't mean that he hasn't/doesn't/won't provide good value as a starter. Putting him in the bullpen greatly reduces his value and contributions. 10 starts > full year as a reliever.

 

Beyond 2014, I'd personally rather dump money towards Maeda and have him take a rotation spot than hand Morrow 10+m and not know what he's gonna provide.

[CHRIS]

The worst option IMO would be overpaying with prospects for a push.

 

Well, you never want to overpay, but ultimately it comes down to what you place value in.

 

I would gladly surrender years of control of young guys if it gets us into the playoffs, or at the very least, a strong run until the end of the season.

 

That's not to say that they should be reckless, but hopefully they recognize the opportunity they have here.

[John_Havok]

I'm on board with this idea, as long as its only for 2015. There isn't a chance in hell I would extend him beyond 2015. IMO his starting days are done and the Jays paying upwards of 10 mil for a RP is dumb roster and financial management.

 

Of course. Picking up any options are another discussion entirely depending on how he would have performed.

[G-Snarls]

Well, you never want to overpay, but ultimately it comes down to what you place value in.

 

I would gladly surrender years of control of young guys if it gets us into the playoffs, or at the very least, a strong run until the end of the season.

 

That's not to say that they should be reckless, but hopefully they recognize the opportunity they have here.

 

Trading good prospects for a SP and failing to make the playoffs would be the worst outcome. If he makes a deal this team had better get itself to at least the ALDS.

[Chappy]

No way I bring Morrow back. Some people go way to Far with the advanced stats and potential. Just like anything else in life, their needs to be a balance. Morrow has NEVER thrown 200 innings once in his entire big league career, he is a certainty to go on the DL every year, and he is wildly inconsistent. For the $9M it will cost this team, I'd rather save the money and spend it elsewhere. Give Nolin a shot for next season.

[G-Snarls]

No way I bring Morrow back. Some people go way to Far with the advanced stats and potential. Just like anything else in life, their needs to be a balance. Morrow has NEVER thrown 200 innings once in his entire big league career, he is a certainty to go on the DL every year, and he is wildly inconsistent. For the $9M it will cost this team, I'd rather save the money and spend it elsewhere. Give Nolin a shot for next season.

 

Yep. Josh Johnson was projected for 3-4 WAR this season. How's that working out? He is another Morrow.

 

Someone who misses this much time will likely continue to miss tons of time.

[CHRIS]

Trading good prospects for a SP and failing to make the playoffs would be the worst outcome. If he makes a deal this team had better get itself to at least the ALDS.

 

I don't think we can worry about outcome at the expense of process.

 

Of course you don't want to make a deal and miss the playoffs, but any GM who won't make a move out of fear of the worst case scenario shouldn't be a GM.

 

We have a reasonable chance here of making the playoffs, and can likely make reasonable moves to improve our chances.

 

There's nobody in the minors that I would be despaired to lose.

[ElNik2013]

Trading good prospects for a SP and failing to make the playoffs would be the worst outcome. If he makes a deal this team had better get itself to at least the ALDS.

 

 

No move guarantees anything. You can only try to improve the team and hope that's enough to make it to the PS, I don't know how you can acquire legit reinforcements without giving up assets to do so and more likely prospects unless you trade from the MLB roster which might be like plugging a hole to create another one.

 

If they do trade away more of the farm, I'd like them to get back youngish players that will stick around for a few years, but we'll have to wait and see.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Yep. Josh Johnson was projected for 3-4 WAR this season. How's that working out? He is another Morrow.

 

Someone who misses this much time will likely continue to miss tons of time.

 

Yet a ton of people still wanted to give him that QO.

 

It's like injury history is completely irrelevant or something.

[G-Snarls]

I don't think we can worry about outcome at the expense of process.

 

Of course you don't want to make a deal and miss the playoffs, but any GM who won't make a move out of fear of the worst case scenario shouldn't be a GM.

 

We have a reasonable chance here of making the playoffs, and can likely make reasonable moves to improve our chances.

 

There's nobody in the minors that I would be despaired to lose.

 

Sure, and I agree with all the above

 

He should be trying to improve the team with a reasonable deal at the trade deadline

[G-Snarls]

Yet a ton of people still wanted to give him that QO.

 

It's like injury history is completely irrelevant or something.

 

Some guys have their heads buried too deeply in their spreadsheets IYAM

 

Forest, trees, etc, etc

[ElNik2013]

No way I bring Morrow back. Some people go way to Far with the advanced stats and potential. Just like anything else in life, their needs to be a balance. Morrow has NEVER thrown 200 innings once in his entire big league career, he is a certainty to go on the DL every year, and he is wildly inconsistent. For the $9M it will cost this team, I'd rather save the money and spend it elsewhere. Give Nolin a shot for next season.

 

 

We'll wait and see how things go, but I'm inclined to agree. You add up what Rasmus, Cabrera and Morrow make and try and use that more efficiently. Maybe bring one of Rasmus or Cabrera back, but maybe use the left over $ to go after a #2 type SP.

 

Anyway, we'll have to wait and see. Right now, I don't really mind Morrow back for the 2nd half although I've said I suspected Santos and Morrow have thrown their last pitch as Jays. I was wrong about Santos, hopefully, I'm wrong on Morrow as well.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Some guys have their heads buried too deeply in their spreadsheets IYAM

 

Forest, trees, etc, etc

 

Wiki might be missing a few, but long story short, there are almost no successful diabetic athletes in the history of professional sports:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sportspeople_with_diabetes

 

Jay Cutler

Ron Santo

Jackie Robinson (Type 2, not sure if he had this during this playing days, likely not)

Bobby Clarke

 

And that's about it. The odds are clearly stacked against Morrow. Diabetes is not some minor thing.

[G-Snarls]

We'll wait and see how things go, but I'm inclined to agree. You add up what Rasmus, Cabrera and Morrow make and try and use that more efficiently. Maybe bring one of Rasmus or Cabrera back, but maybe use the left over $ to go after a #2 type SP.

 

Anyway, we'll have to wait and see. Right now, I don't really mind Morrow back for the 2nd half although I've said I suspected Santos and Morrow have thrown their last pitch as Jays. I was wrong about Santos, hopefully, I'm wrong on Morrow as well.

 

The SP free agent market is rich this off season. I'd love to see AA finally land a top tier FA.

[G-Snarls]

I suppose Melky sort of it a top tier guy we acquired via FA but you know what I mean.

[Chappy]

The SP free agent market is rich this off season. I'd love to see AA finally land a top tier FA.

 

That is where dumping Morrow and Happ come in. That roughly $15M in savings off the books by not picking up this options. Bring back Melky, let Rasmus go (QO), and bring back Janssen and Lind. Also dumping Santos saves quite a bit as well. AA will have some flexibility this winter and should be able to bring in a solid SP.

[ElNik2013]

The SP free agent market is rich this off season. I'd love to see AA finally land a top tier FA.

 

 

AA may actually be looking to do this, at least I hope that's partly why he's said that they'd prefer to acquire a rental to finish off this season.

[G-Snarls]

That is where dumping Morrow and Happ come in. That roughly $15M in savings off the books by not picking up this options. Bring back Melky, let Rasmus go (QO), and bring back Janssen and Lind. Also dumping Santos saves quite a bit as well. AA will have some flexibility this winter and should be able to bring in a solid SP.

 

Dump Morrow and Happ

 

Sign Shields for 4 years 78M

 

Enough to get him? He's not young enough to command more years.

[ElNik2013]

Dump Morrow and Happ

 

Sign Shields for 4 years 78M

 

Enough to get him? He's not young enough to command more years.

 

I think he'd prefer the 5 years 90M you offered first, but with a little despairing, I'm sure he'll take the 4 years 78M.

[G-Snarls]

I think he'd prefer the 5 years 90M you offered first, but with a little despairing, I'm sure he'll take the 4 years 78M.

 

LOL

 

My first offer was when I thought he was 30. My second was when I looked him up and saw he is actually 32.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

I think he'd prefer the 5 years 90M you offered first, but with a little despairing, I'm sure he'll take the 4 years 78M.

 

Yeah he'd take the 4/78..

 

..From another team that gave him the exact same offer.

[G-Snarls]

Yeah he'd take the 4/78..

 

..From another team that gave him the exact same offer.

 

I am tired of exactly that happening

 

What if the Jays have a good post season run, win a division series for example. Anyone think that makes the free agents a little more likely to sign here?

[Chappy]

I am tired of exactly that happening

 

What if the Jays have a good post season run, win a division series for example. Anyone think that makes the free agents a little more likely to sign here?

 

Trade for than extend him, lol.

[John_Havok]

I am tired of exactly that happening

 

What if the Jays have a good post season run, win a division series for example. Anyone think that makes the free agents a little more likely to sign here?

 

It would. You always hear players say later on their careers that when they're a free agent they look for the place they feel has a good chance to win.

[DuckDuckGose]

That is where dumping Morrow and Happ come in. That roughly $15M in savings off the books by not picking up this options. Bring back Melky, let Rasmus go (QO), and bring back Janssen and Lind. Also dumping Santos saves quite a bit as well. AA will have some flexibility this winter and should be able to bring in a solid SP.

 

I'd rather try to move Rasmus for some pitching this season. Although there is no chance I'd let him walk without offering the QO offer. The guy/team I'd try to target is Jon Niese/the NYM. They desperately need another OF'er and have an abundance of pitching. It would take resigning Rasmus and some pitching going the other way as well I would imagine.