GDT(3/3): Toronto Blue Jays @ Cleveland Indians - Morrow vs. Corrasco - 1:05 PM ET

[Top 10 Personal Catcher]

Who are umps held accountable to? Not saying the guy should lose his job or something, but he should be made to know that he blew that strike call. Just wondering.

[Caper]

Hard to be mad at Loup... He's been money for 2 years.

[Anemic0ffense]

Pretty horrific umpiring all year. Why am I not surprised?

[Angrioter]

"walks" loss again

[Orgfiller]

I'm so pissed right now, ump screws us, then Edwin misses a meatball, then he hits one pretty well but right to the defender who was positioned perfectly.

[Nabru]

so much for a 'good bullpen'

 

Hard to have a 'good bullpen' when you have 1/5 starters giving you quality starts.

 

If AA had done his job this off-season, this team is at least 12-7 by now.

[Ziggyy108]

Hard to have a 'good bullpen' when you have 1/5 starters giving you quality starts.

 

If AA had done his job this off-season, this team is at least 12-7 by now.

 

yup.

[IBTrini]

Hard to be mad at Loup... He's been money for 2 years.

True, however he cannot be absolved from blame here. Neither can Gibbons be let off since it was relatively obvious Loup did not have his stuff and tomorrow is an off day so the BP's usage should not have been an issue.

[Caper]

True, however he cannot be absolved from blame here. Neither can Gibbons be let off since it was relatively obvious Loup did not have his stuff and tomorrow is an off day so the BP's usage should not have been an issue.

 

I really don't mind it at all... Yeah, you risk the loss. But a pitcher has to be in those high pressure situations... Even when things are not going their way.

[kgm1]

Really comes down to having the BP pitch 3 or 4 innings 4 out of 5 times around the rotation . Your BP pitches that much expect Blown games like this .

[Stangstag]

I'm really f***ing angry that our pitchers continue to pile on the walks. Seriously, its f***ing pathetic. You can't walk 5-8 batters a game and expect to win.

[admin]

Really comes down to having the BP pitch 3 or 4 innings 4 out of 5 times around the rotation . Your BP pitches that much expect Blown games like this .

 

Exactly. Seems every game bullpen is pitching 4 innings.

[jaysfan2014]

Definitely BS because of that stupid gift call by the umpire and Loup's unexpected control issues today.

 

Hey, if it's bad here.. imagine the anger on the Yanks board right now due to their bullpen meltdowns in the last 2 games.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

so much for a 'good bullpen'

Yep. Should have capitalized last year at the trade deadline. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together could see the regression coming.

 

Another BS loss.

No, this team is what it is. This is the result of doing nothing to either improve or rebuild a mediocre last-place team.

[GD]

I think starters are allowed to go too deep into games, and bullpens are underused.

 

Why? I'm inclined to agree as I have my own unsubstantiated theories, but I'd like to hear your opinion on the matter.

[ElNik2013]

Disappointing loss to say the least. A little confused by Gibbons. He seems to have a quick hook on some guys, but not on others. Cecil was used for one out and 2 pitches in the night game against Minny. Delabar followed Cecil and was pulled after he walked 2 batters.

 

Today, he ended up using Cecil anyway in the 7th to get 1 out and to keep the Jays within 2 runs. I don't know why he wouldn't use Cecil to try to keep the Jays in the lead in the 6th.

 

The offense also could've scored more, but guys like EE, Rasmus and Lawrie aren't hitting so that doesn't help.

 

Anyway, they need to win 4 of 6 in the homestand.

[GD]

Hitters tend to get better the more they see a pitcher in the short term (3rd time through order). Familiarity seems to be a thing. Starters might be better off going every 3 days and always getting pulled before 3rd time through order. Just a theory.

 

Oh, this is much different from what I was thinking, which was limiting the potential for injuries.

 

A.) How would that affect a full season's work load in terms of IP?

 

B.) Have you done any testing to see if wOBA/wRC+ improves each time through the order? It's probably true but nice to verify. However there could always be other variables at play.

 

And you never sent me that pitch location data, I just realized, lol.

[kgm1]

Hitters tend to get better the more they see a pitcher in the short term (3rd time through order). Familiarity seems to be a thing. Starters might be better off going every 3 days and always getting pulled before 3rd time through order. Just a theory.

 

Agreed BUT

 

Hitters also do better once they have seen a reliever more than once in a series and relievers who are overworked don't perform as well . IMO. Generally Starters use 3 or 4 pitches while relievers use a couple

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

So 9-10 starter types and 3-2 legit closers ! ?

[The_DH]

Then the whole roster make up has to be redesigned because the bench when there are 13 pitchers is too small.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

9+3 is 12, 10+2 is 12 so you still have a four man bench !

[TheHurl]

Hitters tend to get better the more they see a pitcher in the short term (3rd time through order). Familiarity seems to be a thing. Starters might be better off going every 3 days and always getting pulled before 3rd time through order. Just a theory.

 

but bullpens going more often would probably leave them more familiar to batters too.

[TheHurl]

Not if they're only used once in a series.

Say

Game 1: Starter A 18 TBF, Long A 9-18 TBF, reliever A max 9 TBF

Game 2: Starter B 18 TBF, Long B 9-18 TBF, reliever B max 9 TBF

Game 3: Starter C 18 TBF, Long C 9-18 TBF, reliever C max 9 TBF

3 guys to float at end of games when needed like normal bullpen

 

It would be interesting...not exactly fan friendly though (imagine the rage when you pull your starter in the 5th when he hasn't given up a run). Just today after watching Collmenter look so good through 5 and then Dee Gordon starts it off in the 6th (actually with 1 out in the 6th) on his 3 time facing him. I decided to look up Collmenter's numbers 1st, 2nd and 3rd time through. and maybe it's similar for most pitchers (it's not something I look up often) but he was 59 tOPS+ first time through and then 150 2nd time (part of the reason he should be a reliever)

[kgm1]

Not if they're only used once in a series.

Say

Game 1: Starter A 18 TBF, Long A 9-18 TBF, reliever A max 9 TBF

Game 2: Starter B 18 TBF, Long B 9-18 TBF, reliever B max 9 TBF

Game 3: Starter C 18 TBF, Long C 9-18 TBF, reliever C max 9 TBF

3 guys to float at end of games when needed like normal bullpen

 

what about starter D and E .

 

Fine for a Buehrle who has a WHIP of .93 but Hutch has a WHIP of 1.45 and McGowan 1.92 I guess the solution for them is to have them start getting as lucky as Buehrle .

[TheHurl]

You'd have to use only controllable starters or guys from the scrap heap. Because nobody would sign/extend with you beyond their arb years unless they couldn't get work elsewhere.

 

Maybe not for the 3 that are going to be given 50+ starts facing 18 batters a game. That's 900 batters faced which is top 10 last year.

[ElNik2013]

Tough loss, but Dickey's pitching on Tuesday.

[SAAviour]

Tough loss, but Dickey's pitching on Tuesday.

 

Haha, nice one.

[kgm1]

They might get pulled earlier than 18 TBF when they get rocked, it'd be reasonable starter innings. Guys won't get their WINZ though.

 

So you would have 9 long men and 3 or 4 closer types , sorry wasn't getting it .

 

what would you have for a pitch limit if these guys are going on 2 days rest ? 45 pitches ?

[Eragon]

Tough loss, but Dickey's pitching on Tuesday.

 

You just trolled us all big time. Thumbs down bra.

[ElNik2013]

Another way in which the team shot itself in the foot yesterday was Reyes giving away an out with a baserunning blunder. I think Cabrera and Bautista followed up with walks, but EE struck out to end the inning. Now, maybe Cabrera and Bautista wouldn't have gotten on base, but you never know, they may have scored an extra run there. Who knows, with a 3-run lead, Gibbons may have given Morrow a longer leash. Anyway.... Edited April 21, 2014 by ElNik2013