Fiery Prima donnas or quiet performers?

[reedjohnsonfan]

So it's pretty clear everyone dislikes Bautista now because he is whiny and egotistical. He is however a very intense competitor and there's no doubt that he wants to win ball games. Vernon Wells on the other hand got a lot of haters because he wasn't a "true leader", wouldn't act very interested in the ballgame at times and had a bit more fun in the dugout, although they both like to joke around. Vernon was however a far more humble guy to the media and didn't argue about balls and strikes every second day. He went out there and tried to lead by performance even though he was sometimes pretty bad.

 

My question is, what's more annoying as your best player? If both players are equal, do you want Bautista or Wells leading your team? Ya Halladay was the true leader especially of the pitching staff, so it's a hypothetical question.

[dineke]

Fiery prima donna = one night stand, quiet performer = wife material

[Laika]

Doesn't matter much. Both kinds have benefits and drawbacks.

 

Bautista types can fire up a team, but they can also cause tension.

 

Wells types don't have that emotional upside but they are positive influences in a long season.

 

I'll take the guy with the highest WAR, thanks!

[GD]

A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

[KingKat]

So it's pretty clear everyone dislikes Bautista now because he is whiny and egotistical. He is however a very intense competitor and there's no doubt that he wants to win ball games. Vernon Wells on the other hand got a lot of haters because he wasn't a "true leader", wouldn't act very interested in the ballgame at times and had a bit more fun in the dugout, although they both like to joke around. Vernon was however a far more humble guy to the media and didn't argue about balls and strikes every second day. He went out there and tried to lead by performance even though he was sometimes pretty bad.

 

My question is, what's more annoying as your best player? If both players are equal, do you want Bautista or Wells leading your team? Ya Halladay was the true leader especially of the pitching staff, so it's a hypothetical question.

 

The most annoying is the player who isn't productive.

[Angrioter]

Jose Bautista for me...

He suck as a person but...................The man can hit

[Abomination]

So it's pretty clear everyone dislikes Bautista now because he is whiny and egotistical.

 

This isn't true at all (the part about everyone disliking him).

[NorthOf49]

Jose Bautista is a supercilious dickhead. Just the absolute worst individual. My God I hate watching that dude play.

 

However, if he's hitting bombs and the Blue Jays are winning IDGAF. If the Blue Jays are playing at a .600 clip I could care less how many umps he berates or teammates he alienates. Winning is the ultimate cure.

[reedjohnsonfan]

A lot of these posts ignored my question in a way. Sure if a guy is playing well it doesn't matter. I'm talking if they are equal, so two equal players one like Wells and one like Bautista. Personally I'd rather a guy like Bautista from an entertainment standpoint, not sure I'd like him when he complains about borderline strikes but it would still be interesting.

[L54]

All things equal, and each player is playing at a 4 WAR level, give me the guy with quiet confidence. He is the one who people will follow. Actions speak louder than words.

[TheBigSmoke.RF]

Bautista for sure, hes arrogant and egotistical but is that a bad thing ? It lets his teammates know hes serious about winning and I would rather have that than a lets just have fun environment.

[Boxcar]

Half the people who responded totally missed the point of this thread

[John_Havok]

Half the people who responded totally missed the point of this thread

 

Yup.

 

I'll take the quiet confidence, the guy that only speaks up when absolutely necessary, doesn't embarrass people in front of the team and leads by example. Fiery guys, while useful in certain situations, will generally have a short shelf life of getting along with other players and end up creating tension. If the talents and skills are equal, take the guy who can control himself rather than fly off the handle at strike 3.

[John_Havok]

Talents and skills equal, the guy who is less likely to get suspended for throwing his helmet at an ump.

 

Unless the ump is that Angel Fernandez, CB Bucknor, Joe West, or Bob Davidson. Then it's okay

[Laika]

Depends on what you already have on your team though.

 

Six Brett Lawries or Jose Bautistas might be a few too many, but a couple of them might really help a team.

 

Twenty five Colby Rasmuses and the first wave of adversity might wash away your team.

 

This is all useless ********, of course.

 

Hutch looked good today!

[Dick_Pole]

This question is not asked quite right, and it's a hard question to ask correctly. In an "ideal" world you take the calm, collected player. But in the terms of Bautista vs Wells you have to ask this:

 

Would you rather have Wells, the quiet guy who can perform but then plays like a lazy of s*** when he's injured and doesn't speak up about it, thus infecting the clubhouse with a culture of half-assing it?

 

Or would you rather have Bautista (or Lawrie), the guy who plays balls-out constantly but then f***s himself up with injuries or suspensions and is potentially disruptive with a short temper?

[G-Snarls]

Depends on what you already have on your team though.

 

Six Brett Lawries or Jose Bautistas might be a few too many, but a couple of them might really help a team.

 

Twenty five Colby Rasmuses and the first wave of adversity might wash away your team.

 

Exactly right. You don't want 25 clones. You want everybody to care about winning. And a few guys to inspire and light the fire. Hey that rhymes.

[G-Snarls]

There's a good form of fieriness and a bad one. Same for quietness.

 

You can be a 'rah rah' guy who pumps others up and sticks up for his teammates, or you can be a whiny clown who screams at umpires and is jealous when other players get attention. You can be a leader by example and get along well with your teammates, or you can not give a f*** and just go to work everyday for a paycheque.

 

Not every player can be labelled with one of two stickers, there are really four. Any of the negative forms are unequivocally bad. The two positive forms should be balanced within the clubhouse.

 

Totally right. Trying to think of some prime examples not just on this team.

[KingKat]

Actually Alomar kind of fits the bill. Spitting at umpires and all that. But hey he was a winner so let's celebrate him. Imagine if he did that in this era of losing.

 

Well he was a Baltimore Orioles at the time and that combined with his less than amicable departure made him persona non gratta around Toronto for awhile. That's been kind of lost to history.

[G-Snarls]

Actually Alomar kind of fits the bill. Spitting at umpires and all that. But hey he was a winner so let's celebrate him. Imagine if he did that in this era of losing.

 

I dunno. Obviously you have a big issue with him - even your login name tells us that. I always saw that as a single hot headed incident from a guy who always seemed generally very professional. Maybe I'm sugar coating it a bit but he never seemed like a diva in his years in Toronto. And anyone can have a heated moment that's way out of character and it doesn't always mean they're a bad person.

[ElNik2013]

I dunno. Obviously you have a big issue with him - even your login name tells us that. I always saw that as a single hot headed incident from a guy who always seemed generally very professional. Maybe I'm sugar coating it a bit but he never seemed like a diva in his years in Toronto. And anyone can have a heated moment that's way out of character and it doesn't always mean they're a bad person.

 

 

 

Not only this, but Hirshbeck and Alomar became friends later on and Hirshbeck forgave Alomar. So it seems Alomar atoned for his mistake and if the victim forgave him and has publicly said Alomar is a good person, that's good enough for me.

[Dick_Pole]

The story is kind of funny...Alomar was already amped up from being booed as the city's number one enemy at the time, and I guess he felt he was justified in leaving. Him already being upset probably led to the spitting incident. Now in retrospect and with how much heat Cito and Beeston get for the favourable treatment of Joe Carter and unfavourable treatment of John Olerud, Shawn Green and others, Alomar probably did the right thing in leaving all along.

[KingKat]

The story is kind of funny...Alomar was already amped up from being booed as the city's number one enemy at the time, and I guess he felt he was justified in leaving. Him already being upset probably led to the spitting incident. Now in retrospect and with how much heat Cito and Beeston get for the favourable treatment of Joe Carter and unfavourable treatment of John Olerud, Shawn Green and others, Alomar probably did the right thing in leaving all along.

 

Not to defend Beaston or Cito but Alomar was a douche plain and simple. He held that mini strike midway through his last season where he stayed in his hotel room and missed a couple of games. No class.

[TheHurl]

So much of what we knew about players from that era was what the media wanted to portray, I heard plenty of bad stories in the 80's when I had a friend working there as a bat boy (Galen Cisco was his godfather), and it was George Bell that got all the bad press. However, according to the stories he was very much a family man, whereas Barfield and McGriff were huge womanizers. Now we don't exactly see the personal lives of the players but we have a better picture of it. Also we occasionally get a "I saw ____ at a bar with _____" figuring out what is true is never easy but at least we are forming our own opinions not just getting the leaked stories