Around Baseball 2014

[TwistedLogic]

I still make that Marlins trade though, even if it wasn't great value.

 

So do I. Don't care how sharp people's hindsight is, I marked the f*** out over that trade and I'm man enough to admit that. Alvarez sucked here and Nicolino was always lower on the totem pole than the other two. Sure I always thought it was annoying that they had to throw in DeSclafani (same way I feel about Becerra in the Mets trade), and it was idiotic to let go of Escobar, but if ownership was forcing you to move Escobar, it might as well be in the trade that brings you Reyes. I f***ing hate the Dickey trade and I always have, but I still make the Marlins one.

[G-Snarls]

Dickey was a terrible trade.

 

I still make that Marlins trade though, even if it wasn't great value.

 

Ditto

[pickoff22]

Dickey was a terrible trade.

 

I still make that Marlins trade though, even if it wasn't great value.

 

 

I still make both those trades even without knowing about D'arnauds struggles and injury troubles and Noah's recent injuries or Dickey's inconsistencies. Dickey hasn't been the pitcher he was in 2012 but at 10 million a year he's been valuable.

[Candy Maldonado]

MLB Now discussing Machado. They think he is disturbed lol

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33576857/mlb-now-reactions-to-machado-incidents

[pickoff22]

MLB Now discussing Machado. They think he is disturbed lol

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v33576857/mlb-now-reactions-to-machado-incidents

 

 

He is

[Nox]

Poor Stoeten. Must suck knowing you've peaked at 30 (or whatever he is).

[HERPDERP]

Syndergaard at league minimum for a few seasons is a lot more valuable than Dickey at 4/41

 

A prospect, and an injured one at that.

 

He can turn into the next Kyle Drabek for all we know.

[pickoff22]

Syndergaard at league minimum for a few seasons is a lot more valuable than Dickey at 4/41

 

You can't make that statement when he has never thrown a pitch in the bigs. It's a blanket statement that puts absolutely no condition on his performance when he finally does pitch. We have no idea how he's going to perform once he progresses to the MLB. What we do know is that Dickey hasn't been as good as we hoped, D'arnaud hasn't progressed or shown the talent most expected and Noah started to look more promising than expected until he got the injury bug.

[flafson]

Does it mean that Machado will miss the series against us?

[Deadpool]

Does it mean that Machado will miss the series against us?

 

Hopefully not, given his numbers...

[TwistedLogic]

A prospect, and an injured one at that.

 

He can turn into the next Kyle Drabek for all we know.

 

It doesn't matter how poor Syndergaard and d'Arnaud end up being, they can both be sub-replacement scrubs for the rest of their careers, the Dickey trade is still atrocious because of what you gave up at the time. And it doesn't matter how good Alvarez pitches and if he ends up winning back-to-back Cy Youngs, in my eyes, the Marlins trade is still defensible on multiple fronts. People need to start looking at things objectively and ditch the retrospect. All the hindsight heroes that were raging about how losing Escobar was one of the worst things the Jays ever did are suddenly very quiet now that Escobar's playing at replacement level and Reyes is quickly catching up to the value that he provided the Rays.

 

People can say whatever they want about what prospects were given up and how the franchise hamstrung itself with big contracts. The truth of the matter is that the franchise was not adding significant payroll in the first place, so the additions those contracts don't have any bearing on the payroll flexibility of the team. People act like if they didn't make that trade, they would have used that 50M aav somewhere else. No. It would have been just as tight at 90M as it is now at 130M. Jays tried to get Anibal Sanchez, failed, and went after Josh Johnson instead. Nobody can say they didn't try, free agents just don't want to come here, and the Jays did the next best thing they could. That's it.

[HERPDERP]

 

 

It doesn't matter how poor Syndergaard and d'Arnaud end up being, they can both be sub-replacement scrubs for the rest of their careers, the Dickey trade is still atrocious because of what you gave up at the time. And it doesn't matter how good Alvarez pitches and if he ends up winning back-to-back Cy Youngs, in my eyes, the Marlins trade is still defensible on multiple fronts. People need to start looking at things objectively and ditch the retrospect. All the hindsight heroes that were raging about how losing Escobar was one of the worst things the Jays ever did are suddenly very quiet now that Escobar's playing at replacement level and Reyes is quickly catching up to the value that he provided the Rays.

 

People can say whatever they want about what prospects were given up and how the franchise hamstrung itself with big contracts. The truth of the matter is that the franchise was not adding significant payroll in the first place, so the additions those contracts don't have any bearing on the payroll flexibility of the team. People act like if they didn't make that trade, they would have used that 50M aav somewhere else. No. It would have been just as tight at 90M as it is now at 130M. Jays tried to get Anibal Sanchez, failed, and went after Josh Johnson instead. Nobody can say they didn't try, free agents just don't want to come here, and the Jays did the next best thing they could. That's it.

 

Then why don't we do the same about Dickey? What we got was a Cy Young award winner with a special, hard knuckleball who had great numbers against the AL East and domed stadiums. Is it outrageous to expect 2 quality prospects for a player with that pedigree? I know we all would have wanted to trade Dickey by giving up Arencibia & Goins but you gotta give s*** to get s***.

 

Not to mention the transaction was paired with other talent acquisitions, making the trade beneficial for our club due to our all-in approach.

[Angrioter]

Vla Guerrero + Speed --->

[pickoff22]

 

 

It doesn't matter how poor Syndergaard and d'Arnaud end up being, they can both be sub-replacement scrubs for the rest of their careers, the Dickey trade is still atrocious because of what you gave up at the time.

 

 

Wasn't atrocious at all. Getting a cy young winner at only 10 million a year coming off 3 strong years isn't going to come cheap. Timing was right. Trade hasn't gone as planned for either club, but calling it atrocious for the Jays (or Mets for that matter) is.....well.....atrocious

[TwistedLogic]

Then why don't we do the same about Dickey? What we got was a Cy Young award winner with a special, hard knuckleball who had great numbers against the AL East and domed stadiums. Is it outrageous to expect 2 quality prospects for a player with that pedigree? I know we all would have wanted to trade Dickey by giving up Arencibia & Goins but you gotta give s*** to get s***.

 

Not to mention the transaction was paired with other talent acquisitions, making the trade beneficial for our club due to our all-in approach.

 

Yes. It is outrageous. A pitcher like Dickey is NEVER worth two top 30 MLB prospects. You're not getting a Cy Young award winner, the Mets got the Cy Young award winner. You're paying a premium for a 38 year old that just had the best season of his life and expecting him to repeat, without regressing an inch. That's a horrible trade. There should be plenty of other trade options when you're giving up two prospects that are as highly-touted as Syndergaard and d'Arnaud were, and if there are no other options and Dickey is the ceiling, then you pass on it. And you do that so that when you have the option to trade for a pitcher like Shields or Samardzija, you can afford it.

[pickoff22]

Yes. It is outrageous. A pitcher like Dickey is NEVER worth two top 30 MLB prospects. You're not getting a Cy Young award winner, the Mets got the Cy Young award winner. You're paying a premium for a 38 year old that just had the best season of his life and expecting him to repeat, without regressing an inch. That's a horrible trade. There should be plenty of other trade options when you're giving up two prospects that are as highly-touted as Syndergaard and d'Arnaud were, and if there are no other options and Dickey is the ceiling, then you pass on it. And you do that so that when you have the option to trade for a pitcher like Shields or Samardzija, you can afford it.

 

Completely disagree. It's a topic that has been debated back and forth so I don't expect you to change your mind, but I haven't read one thing that proves to me it was the wrong move. There are many angles at play. Dickey's salary, positioning of the team, success rate of top 50 prospects, D'arnauds injury history etc. But at the time it was the right move by both clubs.

[HERPDERP]

Yes. It is outrageous. A pitcher like Dickey is NEVER worth two top 30 MLB prospects. You're not getting a Cy Young award winner, the Mets got the Cy Young award winner. You're paying a premium for a 38 year old that just had the best season of his life and expecting him to repeat, without regressing an inch. That's a horrible trade. There should be plenty of other trade options when you're giving up two prospects that are as highly-touted as Syndergaard and d'Arnaud were, and if there are no other options and Dickey is the ceiling, then you pass on it. And you do that so that when you have the option to trade for a pitcher like Shields or Samardzija, you can afford it.

 

I hate Dickey as much as everyone but now you're getting biased. You're using the same arguments that the Dickey naysayers were using back then.

 

He didn't have just one good season. He had one stellar season and two good ones(unless you use wins/losses and Cy Young votes as a measure). It was reasonable to expect he'd maintain that.

 

You're telling me 2 top 30 MLB prospects ain't worth a pitcher with 3 staight years of sub 3.7 FIP? Comon

[TwistedLogic]

 

Chris Sale on Advanced Stats:

 

“All I know I’ve got to do is give up less runs than we score,” Sale said. “I don’t care about anything else. Not the numbers. Not the ISPFMLBLSSRs and whatever else Brian Kenny has come up with to define what makes a good player or not.”

 

Reminded the numbers love him, Sale said: “I don’t love them back.”

 

---

FanGraphs commenters:

 

http://i.gyazo.com/5899f92530daba5d02dd0f58eed0b5d2.png

http://i.gyazo.com/4bc283f91fe624fdcf25bfb921c032a4.png

 

[z3r0s]

I don't give a s*** if my players believe in advanced metrics or not... just my front office.

[Deadpool]

I hate Dickey as much as everyone but now you're getting biased. You're using the same arguments that the Dickey naysayers were using back then.

 

He didn't have just one good season. He had one stellar season and two good ones(unless you use wins/losses and Cy Young votes as a measure). It was reasonable to expect he'd maintain that.

 

You're telling me 2 top 30 MLB prospects ain't worth a pitcher with 3 staight years of sub 3.7 FIP? Comon

 

Birthdate: 10/29/1974

 

That right there is more than enough for me to expect regression from ANY player. So no, it was not reasonable to expect that he'd maintain that.

[HERPDERP]

Birthdate: 10/29/1974

 

That right there is more than enough for me to expect regression from ANY player. So no, it was not reasonable to expect that he'd maintain that.

 

He's gonna regress, but on a different table than your average MLB pitcher. If we followed that table he would've been out of baseball by now or in the pen, like LaTroy Hawkins or Oliver of yesteryear.

 

Knuckleball + lack of ligament = completely different regression curve for him.

[Solaxys]

Does it mean that Machado will miss the series against us?

 

He'll miss 3/4 games.

[Deadpool]

He's gonna regress, but on a different table than your average MLB pitcher. If we followed that table he would've been out of baseball by now or in the pen, like LaTroy Hawkins or Oliver of yesteryear.

 

Knuckleball + lack of ligament = completely different regression curve for him.

 

And the problems he's had with injury since becoming a Jay have been because of his back. Even if you're a knuckleballer, you're still an athlete, and speaking as a dude in my mid-30s, the body goes as you age, regardless of the varying degrees of stress you put on it.

[HERPDERP]

And the problems he's had with injury since becoming a Jay have been because of his back. Even if you're a knuckleballer, you're still an athlete, and speaking as a dude in my mid-30s, the body goes as you age, regardless of the varying degrees of stress you put on it.

 

Indeed, his back has been an issue. From what I recall his back issues starting coming up after he was acquired. Before that, his only concern was his torn ab muscle.

[Deadpool]

You want him off 3B. Hes a difference maker defensively regardless if hes hitting or not.

 

Yeah, but this is the same discussion we have with Gose v/ Colby...

 

Though, I have no idea who replaces him at 3B since I don't know the O's system particularly well (read: at all)

[Sammy225]

Yeah, but this is the same discussion we have with Gose v/ Colby...

 

Though, I have no idea who replaces him at 3B since I don't know the O's system particularly well (read: at all)

 

Schoop likely

[flafson]

From Twins forum:

 

Weather Forecast: I don't know... It's 100 percent Canadian and they suck at predicting the weather. Last time I went up to Winnipeg the forecast said 22. I brought a coat and it was a nice day. Let's just say they missed it by about 50 degrees. I complained to a native Canadian about it and he just shook his head and laughed. Clearly they have learned to laugh off such every day meteorological mistakes.

[TheHurl]

who knew Puig was such an Anthony Gose fan...King might be a little much though

[Angrioter]

who knew Puig was such an Anthony Gose fan...King might be a little much though

 

Vikingos, Vikingos!!

[flafson]

I hope that guy isn't serious lmfao.

 

I thought he was serious at first but it's a long post and there is a lot more like it.