BA Initial Farm Rankings

[kgm1]

Not as bad at first glance but then read the comment . Still this was much better than I thought it would be . I will say that the Jays still have to develop thes guys and i believe that is a huge problem in the system.

 

These are based on the league top twenty lists with points given

 

FARM SYSTEM STRENGTH BASED ON LEAGUE TOP 20 RANKINGS

NO ORG TOTAL NO ORG TOTAL NO ORG TOTAL

1 Red Sox 122.2 11(t) Blue Jays 90.3 21 Marlins 65.7

2 Astros 111.2 11(t) Mets 90.3 22 Nationals 64.7

3 Padres 110.8 13 Mariners 88.8 23 Indians 62.8

4 Rangers 104.6 14 Pirates 88.0 24 White Sox 57.5

5(t) Cubs 98.2 15 Rays 84.2 25 Reds 50.7

5(t) Royals 98.2 16 Yankees 74.1 26 Athletics 44.3

7 Twins 98.1 17 Phillies 71.7 27 Angels 43.0

8 Cardinals 95.2 18 Rockies 68.8 28 Orioles 32.4

9 D-backs 93.9 19 Dodgers 66.6 29 Tigers 29.4

10 Braves 92.1 20 Giants 66.2 30 Brewers 26.6

 

 

11 (tie). BLUE JAYS

 

RHP Marcus Stroman (10 EL) • RHP Aaron Sanchez (10 FSL) • OF Kevin Pillar (19 IL) • SS Franklin Barreto (5 GCL) • RHP Chase DeJong (6 APPY)

 

With the exception of the top three prospects listed here, Toronto deals in volume—not star power—at the short-season levels with one representative from the Gulf Coast League, two from the Northwest League and seven from the Appalachian League.

[Chappy]

Before the season started I commented on how the farm was better than the majority were giving credit for, but most thought we were not even in the top 25. It's better than what I thought as well, but I'm not surprised. Not much star power, but we do have assets. I would love to see AA flip Janssen for prospect(s) and get creative with a Bautista trade then look to the FA market, but I doubt hat happens. A few savvy moves could get this team younger, stronger with the farm and still give us a chance to be competitive next year, but that seems like an extreme long shot based on what I think will actually happen.

[Howard Roark]

Beeston needs to stay far away from this club for a little while and let his GM clean up this hot sloppy f***ing mess he was ordered to cobble together last fall for no particular reason.

 

edit; and oh that's probably the first good news we've had since April from this team. Not too far to go before we crack the top-10 if we do a partial tear-down/re-stocking this offseason. As if, right?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Before the season started I commented on how the farm was better than the majority were giving credit for, but most thought we were not even in the top 25.

 

I think there was some exaggeration there. There are some absolutely brutal farms and some bad ones that run into the low 20's in rank from last season.

 

It's better than what I thought as well, but I'm not surprised. Not much star power, but we do have assets. I would love to see AA flip Janssen for prospect(s) and get creative with a Bautista trade then look to the FA market, but I doubt hat happens. A few savvy moves could get this team younger, stronger with the farm and still give us a chance to be competitive next year, but that seems like an extreme long shot based on what I think will actually happen.

 

Agree

[GD]

Before the season started I commented on how the farm was better than the majority were giving credit for, but most thought we were not even in the top 25.

 

+1, I thought they were middle of the pack as well, and with Tellez, Brentz, Boyd and Hollon all coming in via draft, I can see how we're ranked 11.

[fireballW]

Before the season started I commented on how the farm was better than the majority were giving credit for, but most thought we were not even in the top 25. It's better than what I thought as well, but I'm not surprised. Not much star power, but we do have assets. I would love to see AA flip Janssen for prospect(s) and get creative with a Bautista trade then look to the FA market, but I doubt hat happens. A few savvy moves could get this team younger, stronger with the farm and still give us a chance to be competitive next year, but that seems like an extreme long shot based on what I think will actually happen.

 

AA took a bottom five farm system and turned it into a top 3 farm system within three years of being on the job. He traded many of those prospects, but for a team that many people (and we're not just talking Jays' fans) thought were a favourite to make the playoffs. One year after those trades that people were convinced depleted our system, we're ranked 11th. The Dickey trade was bad. A few others have equal arguments on both sides. The rest of the trades have been good to great.

 

We're still doing well to have AA as our GM. I think player development is still the biggest problem in our system. Hopefully that aspect of the organization keeps improving.

[kgm1]

Guys , remember this is the initial farm ranking using the league top twenty . When they do their final report it gives more weight to the star power and also to the guys closer to the majors . Jays will fall down this list I,m sure .

 

And yes , the Latin contingent has been good ,hopefully it continues under our new Latin scouting director .Also we have to develop these kids which in my opinion the Jays have done a less than stellar job .

[Boxcar]

Beeston needs to stay far away from this club for a little while and let his GM clean up this hot sloppy f***ing mess he was ordered to cobble together last fall for no particular reason.

 

edit; and oh that's probably the first good news we've had since April from this team. Not too far to go before we crack the top-10 if we do a partial tear-down/re-stocking this offseason. As if, right?

 

I think you are giving AA too much credit, he's more to blame for this mess than Beeston is. He's the one that, somehow, decided having JPA at catcher in a competitive season was acceptable, that drafting like 10 pitchers before taking a position player last draft was a good idea (completely ignoring attrition rates for pitching prospects compared to hitters) and that he'd rather have Miguel Cabrera's 2012 than Mike Trout's 2012. Also keeps getting "athletes" who aren't actually good at baseball but omgzzz tools. Hey Alex! You might have lost almost 90 games, but at least your team is athletic!

 

Bottom line, if you have faith that AA would clean up this mess with Beeston on vacation, your faith is misplaced.

[G-Snarls]

Plus picks 10 and 11 in this year's draft. Could def be worse.

[Boxcar]

Guys , remember this is the initial farm ranking using the league top twenty . When they do their final report it gives more weight to the star power and also to the guys closer to the majors . Jays will fall down this list I,m sure .

 

And yes , the Latin contingent has been good ,hopefully it continues under our new Latin scouting director .Also we have to develop these kids which in my opinion the Jays have done a less than stellar job .

 

I can't believe they are 11th. I can't think of any guys that have a good chance to be stars outside of Sanchez (big, big maybe) and Stroman (remote, possible reliever). The rest of the intriguing guys are in the low minors. I would easily take the Pirates' system over ours, probably the Mariners too just looking at systems like ours. The Rays and Yankees also both had much better drafts in June.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I can't believe they are 11th. I can't think of any guys that have a good chance to be stars outside of Sanchez (big, big maybe) and Stroman (remote, possible reliever). The rest of the intriguing guys are in the low minors. I would easily take the Pirates' system over ours, probably the Mariners too just looking at systems like ours. The Rays and Yankees also both had much better drafts in June.

 

 

I can't believe people are putting stock into a ranking based off a compilation of Top 20 lists.

[GeorgiaPeach]

This is not the 11th-best farm in baseball. We have a high volume of players that ranked top-20 in their league, but really lack players with impact potential. I'd take the Mariners, Indians, Dodgers, Rays, Pirates, and Mariners over us for sure.

 

I'd say somewhere in the 15-20 range.

[Boxcar]

I can't believe people are putting stock into a ranking based off a compilation of Top 20 lists.

 

I don't really see a point in making a list like this when it doesn't tell you anything meaningful.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I don't really see a point in making a list like this when it doesn't tell you anything meaningful.

 

Sometimes I'll just take anything I can get on prospects or baseball that gets spewed out by a reputable site. But when conversation starts getting relevant on a hodge-podge list that was mashed it into some sort of ranking, I'm like what the f*** is this and please stop.

 

I do like the Top 20 lists for each MiLB league, but there's no reason to expand further.

[Howard Roark]

I think you are giving AA too much credit, he's more to blame for this mess than Beeston is. He's the one that, somehow, decided having JPA at catcher in a competitive season was acceptable, that drafting like 10 pitchers before taking a position player last draft was a good idea (completely ignoring attrition rates for pitching prospects compared to hitters) and that he'd rather have Miguel Cabrera's 2012 than Mike Trout's 2012. Also keeps getting "athletes" who aren't actually good at baseball but omgzzz tools. Hey Alex! You might have lost almost 90 games, but at least your team is athletic!

 

Bottom line, if you have faith that AA would clean up this mess with Beeston on vacation, your faith is misplaced.

 

 

I have much more faith in our current GM when I am given the impression that he's actually being given the space to carry out his own responsibilities without some obese geriatric egomaniac moron interfering.

 

Somewhere along the line AA decided to have a personality transplant, judging by his moves. I connect dots.

[kgm1]

This is not the 11th-best farm in baseball. We have a high volume of players that ranked top-20 in their league, but really lack players with impact potential. I'd take the Mariners, Indians, Dodgers, Rays, Pirates, and Mariners over us for sure.

I would agree with Chris . Closer to 20 than 11 . As I said most of the top twenty guys were in the Appy league and no star power that when they do make the final farm rankings scores higher .

I think you can read the whole article without a subscribtion .

 

Still It is better than I thought

[kgm1]

Sometimes I'll just take anything I can get on prospects or baseball that gets spewed out by a reputable site. But when conversation starts getting relevant on a hodge-podge list that was mashed it into some sort of ranking, I'm like what the f*** is this and please stop.

 

I do like the Top 20 lists for each MiLB league, but there's no reason to expand further.

 

I can take the credit for turning you on the the top twenty lists Chris and agree that I really like them . AS you recall I used to post the list of which teams had the #,s so I,m glad that BA has finally done it into some sort of ranking .

However your right because they go all the way to the Rookie leagues a top 30 in AA could be way more valuable than a top 10 in the GCL and I might add some leagues were weak talent wise this year.

[Clojojo]

who cares, every player this org touches becomes instant s***

Sanchez is maybe the only interesting player we have

We do not know how to groom homegrown talent

 

hilarious the best pick AA made was Beede and he couldnt even sign him

[John_Havok]

Lol at Beede being pest pick. Sanchez, Syndergaard, Stroman say hi.

 

Don't indulge the troll. There's examples nearly every year of teams who don't sign high school picks that turn down big bonuses that get picked again 2 years later. Failure to sign Beede isn't an indicator of anything other than AA trying to go big with high school talent

[jays_fever]

Yea the pirates are the organization that shocks me..they probably have 5 prospects that are better than Sanchez alone

[ace3113]

Jays related notes in last week's KLAW chat.

 

Steve (Toronto)

What would you respond to critics who think your souring on Aaron Sanchez after being so high on him for so long is related to the rest of the industry's opinion on Syndergaard?

 

Klaw (1:12 PM)

I don't think much of "critics" who question my integrity rather than responding to my specific comments on players. I compared what I saw from Sanchez in Fall League to video from when I saw him in 2012, and it confirmed my initial impression - he's shortened his stride and is finishing too upright. The Sanchez I'd seen in the past missed bats with his fastball; the one I saw in AZ threw 28 fastballs and didn't get a single swing and miss on it. Lengthen his stride, get him finishing over his front side, and let's see if that gets him back to where he was.

 

Brint (Wichita)

What do you think the chances are of Kyle Drabek returning and becoming a quality Major League starter?

 

Klaw (1:13 PM)

Very slim. Double TJ guys who've returned as starters ... I know Chris Capuano did, but have there been any others?

 

JC (Winnipeg)

Did you see anything from Rowdy Tellez in the AFL to upgrade your current position of "not even a guy" on him?

 

Klaw (1:27 PM)

I did not, because he wasn't in the AFL.

 

Anthony (NY)

What kind of major leaguer do u see synderguard becoming?

 

Klaw (1:30 PM)

Above-average starter. 3-4 WAR guy.

 

Steve (Easton PA)

Thoughts on JP Crawford? The Phillies had to have been thrilled with the little they saw of him last summer.

 

Klaw (1:43 PM)

I'm all in. Big fan. Jays should have taken him at 10 over Bickford on pure talent.

 

Jimmy Wynn (Doug Radar's house)

Henderson Alvarez or Joe Kelly longterm, and why?

 

Klaw (1:45 PM)

Alvarez. I actually think Kelly's better off in the pen - he'd deliver more value in 80-odd innings there than in 160 or so as a fifth starter.

 

John (Ontario)

Wondering where might be a potential spot for DJ Davis on your prospects list for next year

 

Klaw (2:06 PM)

Not on the top 100, if that's the question.

 

Rusty (Austin)

Wacha long term? number 3 starter? lower, higher?

 

Klaw (1:34 PM)

Number three to number two. Stuff of a three, command elevates him. Will probably depend on where the breaking ball is over a 200-inning sample.

[EdelweissBouquet]

" AA took a bottom five farm system and turned it into a top 3 farm system within three years of being on the job. '

 

Ranking farm systems is not exactly an exact science.

It's someone's perception of what the players in that

system MIGHT be . The two travis's alone jumped us

way up the ladder. How did those 2 fare so far?

But if this ranking give some here a strand of hope to

cling to, then so be it.

 

GO LEAFS GO !!

 

CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!

[connorp]

Yeah i take exception to the notion AA "built" a Top 3 farm. There was nothing special to it. He moved the best SP in baseball like anyone could for a mega prospect package.

 

He got a blue chip piece in return for Marcum as he shouldve.

 

Yes, he did compliment that by taking advantage of the comp system to add more high picks..but that is all done now. Also the majority of his high picks have flamed out.

 

Really that Top 3 didnt have a ton to do with Synder and such. They werent even sniffing Top 100 at the time if i remember right.

 

So where is the impact of that Top 3 farm a few years later?

 

AA really hasnt proven s*** about building a farm..every team has intriguing low level guys (recent draftees)

[Boxcar]

Also, Hutch, Handsome Jake, Alvarez (3 top guys in the farm) were all hold overs that gained prominence after JPR was fired.

[KingKat]

Yeah i take exception to the notion AA "built" a Top 3 farm. There was nothing special to it. He moved the best SP in baseball like anyone could for a mega prospect package.

 

He got a blue chip piece in return for Marcum as he shouldve.

 

Yes, he did compliment that by taking advantage of the comp system to add more high picks..but that is all done now. Also the majority of his high picks have flamed out.

 

Really that Top 3 didnt have a ton to do with Synder and such. They werent even sniffing Top 100 at the time if i remember right.

 

So where is the impact of that Top 3 farm a few years later?

 

AA really hasnt proven s*** about building a farm..every team has intriguing low level guys (recent draftees)

 

If you substracted the comp picks and trade, all you'd be left with is a terrible draft record. AA seems to go out of the way to make non-Ricciardi picks (Deck McGuire excepted). He's filling the system with high school pitchers and athletic guys with questionable hit tools, basically anything that could be qualified as high risk. There's got to be a middle ground somewhere. Notice that the Cardinals make what on the surface look like conservative picks year after year and yet unlike Ricciardi or AA, they consistently get good returns.

[TheHurl]

this is much more of a statement on the weakness of the Appy this year.

[TheHurl]

Don't indulge the troll. There's examples nearly every year of teams who don't sign high school picks that turn down big bonuses that get picked again 2 years later. Failure to sign Beede isn't an indicator of anything other than AA trying to go big with high school talent

 

everyone does pre-draft deals though, this stuff shouldn't happen unless you are trying to punt the pick into a pick the next year (like they did with Bickford this year).

[kgm1]

Yeah i take exception to the notion AA "built" a Top 3 farm. There was nothing special to it. He moved the best SP in baseball like anyone could for a mega prospect package.

 

He got a blue chip piece in return for Marcum as he shouldve.

 

Yes, he did compliment that by taking advantage of the comp system to add more high picks..but that is all done now. Also the majority of his high picks have flamed out.

 

Really that Top 3 didnt have a ton to do with Synder and such. They werent even sniffing Top 100 at the time if i remember right.

 

So where is the impact of that Top 3 farm a few years later?

 

AA really hasnt proven s*** about building a farm..every team has intriguing low level guys (recent draftees)

 

Take back the 3 trades and this farm system is in the top 5 , Didn,t do the #,s but maybe top 3 . How AA built it doesn't matter .He still did it . The gutting of the system thru trades was AA,s fault but at least he had a system to gut . during Ricardi,s rein there was never enough in the system to make deals . Can he do it again ? Not sure . The loss of Marco Paddy to the White Sox might be a big blow

[kgm1]

this is much more of a statement on the weakness of the Appy this year.

 

Here is how BA rated the Appy league

Nick (North Carolina): Overall, the Appy league seemed to be a little down as far as prospects this year. Are there any on this list that have a high enough ceiling to be in contention for top 10 prospects down the line?

Clint Longenecker: Great question. It was down a little from last year, which is only to say that last year was a very strong class and benefited from the earlier signing bonus in a big way. This was still a solid crop of players but lacked the first round picks.

[kgm1]

everyone does pre-draft deals though, this stuff shouldn't happen unless you are trying to punt the pick into a pick the next year (like they did with Bickford this year).

I see no good reason to punt 1st round picks down the road . You lose a year on development and who is to say what the next class does in development . Top ones could crash and you are left with a poorer choice .

 

Course I,m not sure the Jays system develops well anyway. The 07 draft class still bugs the s*** out of me , what a waste of talent .