Mottola and Murphy Leave Coaching Staff

[saskjayfan]

Yeah it reads as a huge slight to Mottola. No other way to spin those comments.

 

The biggest thing I got from this is that Murphy was forced on Farrell and Mottola was forced on Gibby. Gibby wasn't allowed to get his guy from the get go. A GM should hire a manager and let him fill out his staff. It's not that Motolla isn't a good coach, but gibby needs a guy who fits in with his philosophies and style of management. AA tends to micro manage, especially in areas where he is clearly out of his depth.

 

The problem is AA...plain and simple. I don't think he's the worst GM in the world...he's done good and bad..but it's time to move on.

[The_DH]

So we will have a coach from the Royals system. Great. GMs normally pick some of the coaches so I don't buy that it wasn't his guy. At least if Gibby picks his guy then it will speed up his demise.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Boston Red Sox have two hitting coaches... And what a joke of an organization they are...

 

They also scored 57 more runs then the team with the 2nd most.

 

But ya, no way having two hitting coaches could work...

 

Can you imagine there being no Major League hitting or pitching coaches? MLB may cease to exist, because these elite baseball players wouldn't know how to hit or pitch. Everything they'd learned and the talent they have would all be thrown out the window.

 

f***, can you imagine the Jays not having Cito Gaston at the helm in 92 & 93? Dave Winfield, Morris, Alomar, White, Olerud, Molitor, Stewart, Cone, Carter.....etc...etc the Jays may have been a last place club without Cito.

 

My thoughts are, have one Hitting Coach. He comes in learns all the players tendencies, because there's no purpose overhauling a veteran's approach. From there the coach tweaks, gives suggestion and works with the hitters on their games. Video work, scouting reports are also important. I don't see the need to have two different people doing the same job.

 

And if the players are so soft they feel like they need their comfort blankey of Dwayne "quota" Murphy, then maybe they need to go elsewhere.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yeah a lot of teams have two hitting coaches this days. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the two work together to spread a consistent message.

 

Mottola's message via an interview on theFan early in the year was work counts, get on base, use the whole field, yadda, yadda. And we all know Murphy's message. So the only consistency is if Jose & Edwin needed their own personal HC that got them right then Murph' can stay consistent with them. And Mottola everyone else.

[Atothe]

Tampa bay has two hitting coaches, as did the St louis last year before Mcguire left for the dodgers. AA has to go immediately, before he sets this franchise back a decade. They need fresh, non panicking blood. and whats sad is this fool wants to go get some more talent via the trade route when he barely has anything to trade. FIRE THE FAT GREEK!

[Convo]

Mottola's message via an interview on theFan early in the year was work counts, get on base, use the whole field, yadda, yadda.

 

Sounds like the dream hitting coach, if only we had such a guy.....

[Howard Roark]

Personally, I've always thought that it makes a whole lot of sense to have a righty hitting coach for righty hitters and a lefty hitting coach for lefty hitters. I could have sworn that there was mention of that on here a while back as being something that this club was looking to explore.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Sounds like the dream hitting coach, if only we had such a guy.....

 

Or if we only had players who weren't deadest against hitting jacks.

[KSaw]

Gibby probably wants his guy. If it is Lee Mazzilli I will fall over laughing.

[kgm1]

Gibby probably wants his guy. If it is Lee Mazzilli I will fall over laughing.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was Kevin Seitzer .

 

I'm sure Mottola will get a job. Most baseball people will look at the results and his success over the last few years.

[Jays]

Sounds like the dream hitting coach, if only we had such a guy.....

 

nah. he'd conflict with the organizations philosophies.

[Dr Negative]

Knowing this organization JPA will probably end up as the hitting coach.

[Jays]

Knowing this organization JPA will probably end up as the hitting coach.

 

You know what they say, those who can't do, teach.

[Abomination]

You know what they say, those who can't do, teach.

 

Worked for Mottola

[KSaw]

Carlos Delgado rumors are already being floated...

[ace3113]

Personally, I've always thought that it makes a whole lot of sense to have a righty hitting coach for righty hitters and a lefty hitting coach for lefty hitters. I could have sworn that there was mention of that on here a while back as being something that this club was looking to explore.

 

I've always thought this as well. It makes all the sense in the world, which is probably why it will never happen in baseball. lol

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Carlos Delgado rumors are already being floated...

 

Desperate PR stunt is desperate if true.

[G-Snarls]

Carlos Delgado rumors are already being floated...

 

Well, at least they're not talking about Joe Carter...

[GeorgiaPeach]

Well, at least they're not talking about Joe Carter...

 

I would switch allegiances to another team as my fave' if they hired Carter to be the hitting coach.

[Atothe]

i would switch allegiances to another team as my fave' if they hired carter to be the hitting coach.

 

lol!

[G-Snarls]

lol!

 

I know where he's coming from

 

Great guy, and rightfully famous for "the" home run, but career .259/.306/.464 hitter

 

#OverRated

 

#NotMyHittingCoach

[G-Snarls]

I would switch allegiances to another team as my fave' if they hired Carter to be the hitting coach.

 

Yep. Not a good choice, but I'm afraid I can see it happening some day.

[RickyWalks]

Once his Webber naturals money runs out he'll easily be the Jays new hitting coach.

[The Cats Ass]

I would switch allegiances to another team as my fave' if they hired Carter to be the hitting coach.

 

But he could teach the team how to be clutch and hit walkoff homeruns!

[G-Snarls]

Carter's playing career wouldn't matter that much though. Why use physical criteria to hire somebody for a position that doesn't require physical skills?

 

Case in point: Chad Mottola was drafted one spot ahead of Derek Jeter in 1992. He was a massive bust, and would kill for Carter's career. But he wasn't a massive bust as hitting coach (or at least, I don't think he was).

 

Good point. Sometimes the best teachers aren't always the ones who actually do it best. But they have to understand what they're teaching well and be good at evaluating and advising. Maybe Carter would work, maybe he wouldn't.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Carter's playing career wouldn't matter that much though. Why use physical criteria to hire somebody for a position that doesn't require physical skills?

 

Case in point: Chad Mottola was drafted one spot ahead of Derek Jeter in 1992. He was a massive bust, and would kill for Carter's career. But he wasn't a massive bust as hitting coach (or at least, I don't think he was).

 

Your physical skills comment triggered a question of a common thought.....The ones that can, do and the ones that can't teach. But is that more of a the guys who just don't have the physical talent to be much, but are still a fundamentally sound player......John McDonald, Kawasaki, Bill Muellar on the more talented end, Reed Johnson. Or is it possible to have players with major holes in their playing career game. Who obviously never adhered to advice in correcting those holes but played with them nonetheless.

 

Take Carter as the example for his name being brought up. He was a talented player, but as a HC does he identify that as a hitter he got burned over and over with down and away breaking balls and as such he's gonna teach players not be susceptible to that? Or is he gonna teach players how he approached hitting and we'll have a bunch JPA' & Rajai's getting burned just like he did. And if he is gonna teach them the right way, why on earth did he never listen to his coaches and close up that gaping hole in his game.

 

Same goes for Barfield, I remember him doing cameo's in the booth years back and totally getting frustrated at the Jays K'ing and not taking a different approach with 2 strikes. It's like wait a minute Jess', if Rob Deer & Reggie Jackson weren't around in the day, you would've been the king of K. So lets not start casting stones too quick there.

[Laika]

Your physical skills comment triggered a question of a common thought.....The ones that can, do and the ones that can't teach. But is that more of a the guys who just don't have the physical talent to be much, but are still a fundamentally sound player......John McDonald, Kawasaki, Bill Muellar on the more talented end, Reed Johnson. Or is it possible to have players with major holes in their playing career game. Who obviously never adhered to advice in correcting those holes but played with them nonetheless.

 

Take Carter as the example for his name being brought up. He was a talented player, but as a HC does he identify that as a hitter he got burned over and over with down and away breaking balls and as such he's gonna teach players not be susceptible to that? Or is he gonna teach players how he approached hitting and we'll have a bunch JPA' & Rajai's getting burned just like he did. And if he is gonna teach them the right way, why on earth did he never listen to his coaches and close up that gaping hole in his game.

 

Same goes for Barfield, I remember him doing cameo's in the booth years back and totally getting frustrated at the Jays K'ing and not taking a different approach with 2 strikes. It's like wait a minute Jess', if Rob Deer & Reggie Jackson weren't around in the day, you would've been the king of K. So lets not start casting stones too quick there.

 

A coach's hitting tendencies as a player seem to have very little to do with how they coach. At a glance it seems like a non-factor, basically.

 

The Red Sox are a famously patient ball team and their hitting coach for the last 2 years, Greg Colbrunn, had a 5.6% career walk rate.

The Blue Jays were free swinging HR chasers under Dwayne Murphy, he of the 14.3% career walk rate.

 

And of course, there are numerous hitting coaches who could never even hit in the show at all. Busts, career minor leaguers, etc.

 

Coaching hitting and actually hitting major league pitching are two completely different things. People get way too concerned about how specific/potential coaches hit during their careers.

 

But if I'm hiring a hitting coach, I'd probably prefer to hire a guy who never really had any substantial major league success. If you get a guy who could actually hit big league pitching, then you run the risk of having a coach that thinks they have the answers, a coach that thinks they know too much about what is essentially a non-science. I would want a humble and open minded hitting coach, not somebody who could potentially be blinded by their own experiences and inadvertently arrogant.

[G-Snarls]

Dream hitting coach? Paul Molitor. Is he doing anything with the Brewers or Twins??

[GeorgiaPeach]

A coach's hitting tendencies as a player seem to have very little to do with how they coach. At a glance it seems like a non-factor, basically.

 

The Red Sox are a famously patient ball team and their hitting coach for the last 2 years, Greg Colbrunn, had a 5.6% career walk rate.

The Blue Jays were free swinging HR chasers under Dwayne Murphy, he of the 14.3% career walk rate.

 

And of course, there are numerous hitting coaches who could never even hit in the show at all. Busts, career minor leaguers, etc.

 

Coaching hitting and actually hitting major league pitching are two completely different things. People get way too concerned about how specific/potential coaches hit during their careers.

 

But if I'm hiring a hitting coach, I'd probably prefer to hire a guy who never really had any substantial major league success. If you get a guy who could actually hit big league pitching, then you run the risk of having a coach that thinks they have the answers, a coach that thinks they know too much about what is essentially a non-science. I would want a humble and open minded hitting coach, not somebody who could potentially be blinded by their own experiences and inadvertently arrogant.

 

Obviously the lion share of results stems from the players talent and fundamentals and what they;ve learned through their Amateur days and early pro careers. Them also being receptive to suggestions, philosophical changes or constructive criticism of their approaches is also extremely important. If you have a team of lunkheads or stubborn players, you're f***ed.

 

When it boils down to it, who knows how Greg Colbrunn has affected the Sox hitters. Have they regressed, have they improved.....who knows.

 

I'd prefer as a HC like I said a Johhny Mac, David Eckstein or Reed Johnson over a Joe Carter anyday. I want someone who I could see had a grass roots approach to hitting. Who worked the pitcher when they needed to, who used the whole field, and could explain the importance of what they were trying to do even though it may have likely failed more often than not due to lack of talent or tools.

[KSaw]

Desperate PR stunt is desperate if true.

 

Perhaps but he was the hitting coach for Puerto Rico at the WBC and is looking to coach.