Josh Donaldson passed Miggy in WAR

[Laika]

Some of you actually think Donaldson should win the MVP?!?!?

 

No, you f***ing goober. Trout.

[GD]

Some of you actually think Donaldson should win the MVP?!?!?

 

Lol no one is f***ing thinking that. And no one has said it. Seriously.

[theblujay]

I definitely think Cabrera should win the MVP, but I would be fine with Trout winning. Donaldson? Who? I've never even heard of the guy besides when we played the As.

[G-Snarls]

So you're saying reputation and your knowledge of a player matters?

 

#Cachet

[theblujay]

So you're saying reputation and your knowledge of a player matters?

 

No I'm saying its clear Cabrera is a much better player. The fact that Donaldson is a nobody isn't related.

[theblujay]

To add to that: Where the hell did this Donaldson guy come from? I had never heard his name before last year. Is he even that good?

[theblujay]

Is Donaldson even great at any part of the game? Was he a top prospect? I've seriously never heard of this guy before this year.

[theblujay]

The only thing clear is that Cabrera is a better hitter. Not player. Donaldson excels as a defender with above average baserunning, where as Cabrera costs his team over 2 wins by playing 3B and not being able to run.

 

Cabrera is a legendary hitter, the best I've ever seen (I barely remember Bonds). He's really a first baseman and probably only a little below average, so that doesn't really matter. He doesn't need to be a good base runner because he has amazing power.

[GD]

I definitely think Cabrera should win the MVP, but I would be fine with Trout winning. Donaldson? Who? I've never even heard of the guy besides when we played the As.

 

Admin, now's the time to change your username to WhoIsJoshDonaldson

[theblujay]

He is just good at everything. Good contact, power, discipline, glove, arm, range, and base running. He's not off the charts on anything but is good everywhere. He wasn't a top prospect, no. All of a sudden he figured things out last year in AAA, and it's carried over to the bigs this year.

 

So this guy spent 3 years in AAA and then put up big numbers all of a sudden? It's too bad this board would have completely written him off after he had a mediocre season in his second year in AAA at an old age.

[theblujay]

He hits a homerun in 15% of his hits+walks. He has to be on the basepaths the other 85%. Baserunning matters.

 

Obviously it matters, but not that much. Just please tell me you don't think Donaldson is as good as Cabrera.

[theblujay]

LOL Goins is not Donaldson.

 

Don't worry I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying I bet most people on this board would have been against him.

[theblujay]

This is like me being shocked that you're willing to get in a car because people sometimes die in car accidents. Probability, how does it work?

 

I'm just saying you would have hated him two years ago because you give them no chance to improve

[TheHurl]

flip MVP to actually mean "Most Valuable to their team" who do you give it to? Donaldson hands down for me...with a 23 Win starting staff truly you could have the Astros offense behind the Tigers and still win.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Is Donaldson even great at any part of the game? Was he a top prospect? I've seriously never heard of this guy before this year.

 

He's one of those mushy breakout types playing way above anything he's done in pro' ball.

[theblujay]

But why should we give something with less than 1% probability a chance (in the bigs) when there are alternatives?

 

When I say give them a chance I mean don't write them off, not specifically give them a chance in the bigs

[theblujay]

flip MVP to actually mean "Most Valuable to their team" who do you give it to? Donaldson hands down for me...with a 23 Win starting staff truly you could have the Astros offense behind the Tigers and still win.

Still Cabrera he's a legend and a monster at the plate. No one is even close

[GeorgiaPeach]

Obviously it matters, but not that much. Just please tell me you don't think Donaldson is as good as Cabrera.

 

Obviously he's not as good a hitter, not even close and I expect some regression next year to make the difference even greater. It's just that Donaldson fields and runs the bases well.

 

Think about this.....fresh off putting up a bizarre 4.4WAR in 2006, who's the better player , Reed Johnson or Jim Thome. Things even out, unless Donaldson's another Jose Bautista situation.

Edited September 17, 2013 by GeorgiaPeach

[theblujay]

Obviously he's obviously not as good a hitter, not even close and I expect some regression next year to make the difference even greater. It's just that Donaldson fields and runs the bases well.

 

Think about this.....fresh off putting up a bizarre 4.4WAR in 2006, who's the better player , Reed Johnson or Jim Thome. Things even out, unless Donaldson's another Jose Bautista situation.

 

I see Donaldson only has 5 SB, what exactly makes him a great base runner

[Fearthedoc]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but it would be interesting to see an analysis on production vs salary in terms of total value. If their production is close, obviously the guy who makes 1/40th what the other makes is more "valuable". It gives his team more financial flexibility to improve the roster at other positions.

 

I wouldn't actually use that criteria to cast my vote though. The MVP award should be for the player who had the most outstanding year. Who gives a damn if his team didn't make the playoffs? It's almost as dumb as voters who look at players' offensive stats when they're giving out gold gloves.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

The only thing clear is that Cabrera is a better hitter. Not player. Donaldson excels as a defender with above average baserunning, where as Cabrera costs his team over 2 wins by playing 3B and not being able to run.

 

That's flawed thinking. Cabrera actually is more valuable to his team because he can play 3B and let other teammates play 1B and DH. On a broader level, the WAR measurement concept seems flawed to some degree, an attempt to simplify something by aggregating disparate stats.

[jays_fever]

Half the writers voting this year still probbaly dont even know what Donaldson looks like. I doubt he finishes in the top 5, probably not the top 10.

[GD]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but it would be interesting to see an analysis on production vs salary in terms of total value.

 

Surplus value?

 

That's flawed thinking. Cabrera actually is more valuable to his team because he can play 3B and let other teammates play 1B and DH. On a broader level, the WAR measurement concept seems flawed to some degree, an attempt to simplify something by aggregating disparate stats.

 

A.) He can't really play 3B

B.) Trout plays CF

[Fearthedoc]

Cabrera actually is more valuable to his team because he can play 3B

 

It depends what you consider "can play" to mean. Technically, I'm sure anyone can play the position. However, Cabrera's stats show he's been arguably the worst 3B this year. It definitely doesn't make him more valuable that he can slide over and put up poop defensive stats at the corner.

[TheHurl]

Half the writers voting this year still probbaly dont even know what Donaldson looks like. I doubt he finishes in the top 5, probably not the top 10.

 

Steak dinners go a long way towards recognition...that's been proven over the years.

[Fearthedoc]

I'd argue that Castellanos/Cabrera is a better 3B/DH combination than Cabrera/Martinez

 

When Martinez is gone after next season, do you see it shaking up as:

 

3B: Castellanos

1B: Cabrera

DH: Fielder

 

With Fielder and Cabrera filling in for one another over the course of the season?

[TheHurl]

That's flawed thinking. Cabrera actually is more valuable to his team because he can play 3B and let other teammates play 1B and DH. On a broader level, the WAR measurement concept seems flawed to some degree, an attempt to simplify something by aggregating disparate stats.

 

I'll say it...the Tigers are better off with Santiago at 3rd and Cabrera at DH than Cabrera at 3B and VMart at DH.

[TheHurl]

I'd argue that Castellanos/Cabrera is a better 3B/DH combination than Cabrera/Martinez. The Tigers are giving up almost two whole wins on defense by playing Cabrera at 3B... and all to make room for Victor Martinez's 0.5 win season at DH.

 

Being able to play another position very poorly is not a particularly valuable skill, and this case has proven to be no exception.

 

I think there is a possibility that Castellanos might be a really bad 3B too. The issue isn't about what's the smart move though...in this case it's about keeping Miggy happy. There is a strong possibility he becomes a huge issue if they move him to DH.

[Fearthedoc]

I think there is a possibility that Castellanos might be a really bad 3B too.

 

I hope not. I'm banking on him being my 3B as of 2015 in the DDL. I fear that you're right though, and that he's destined for the outfield.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I see Donaldson only has 5 SB, what exactly makes him a great base runner

 

There's a lot more to base running than SB's.

 

You watched any games Moises Sierra's played in? Bad base runner and not a burner.

 

Although Fangraphs's metric for base running is something I don't think I can rely on too much seeing as they have Rajai Davis and Alex Rios as very good base runners.