Can Ryan Goins stick?

[flafson]

Maybe another reason they keep him around is because they acknowledge they botched his development?

[G-Snarls]

My god....

 

Animated GIF movie reference is shockingly apt here

[Angrioter]

"@DCameronFG More ZIPS leaderboard fun. There are 62 2B projected to be better than the Blue Jays Starter."

[GD]

Maybe another reason they keep him around is because they acknowledge they botched his development?

 

Christ.

[KSaw]

They'll acquire someone before April. Be serious.

[KSaw]

Franklin is soooo on the table and Drew has no takers and Boras has thrown at least three olive branches towards AA.

[G-Snarls]

Franklin is soooo on the table and Drew has no takers and Boras has thrown at least three olive branches towards AA.

 

We did not upgrade the rotation. Happ, Romero and Drabek are probably all garbage

 

We undershot at cacher and got two backups instead of a true #1 catcher

 

Let's at least look after 2B, shall we, since there are actually good options available

[Frenchsoup]

i really think AA has to go out and get a guy like Beckham and find a proper platoon for lind for ffs. He's got way to many bullpen arms and Wagner deserves to make this team and not be stuck in AAA.

[Angrioter]

This is an awkward time to go looking for MLB players on the trade market. Teams (except Toronto) have spent all offseason molding their rosters and aren't generally willing to make deals in ST. But yeah, they clearly need a 2B and useful RH bat.

 

Partially agree.

Many teams are almost complete and have good pieces in stock (M's Franklin, Jays RP, Yanks Ichiro/Zoilo, Mil Weeks, Padres Denorfia)

[flafson]

What do you guys think of Goins so far? He looks A LOT better in my opinion so far. Most of his AB's been pretty good. It's very easy to tell that he made some improvements over the season, only question is how much.

[Anemic0ffense]

He's Goins to the doghouse. Book it.

[Laika]

He's had 9 plate appearances, the two best pitchers he's faced are 5th starters, and he he's still only been on base twice. Let's cool the jets a bit.

 

Are you implying that his weekend in Kevin Seitzer's guest room didn't improve his offensive projections?

 

And you call yourself a fan...

[gruber92]

He's had 9 plate appearances, the two best pitchers he's faced are 5th starters, and he he's still only been on base twice. Let's cool the jets a bit.

 

The BABIP Gods have also been cruel to him so far also. One thing i have noticed though is that he needs to be a bit more aggressive in fast ball counts, as i don't see him projecting into a "grinder" in his plate appearances.

[theblujay]

I'm not gonna read anything into ST stats, but if his approach looks any different that could be something. I just hope he does enough to make the team as the starting 2B so we can see what he has to offer. Then at least we'll know, either way.

[Laika]

The BABIP Gods have also been cruel to him so far also. One thing i have noticed though is that he needs to be a bit more aggressive in fast ball counts, as i don't see him projecting into a "grinder" in his plate appearances.

 

Maybe if he gets more aggressive he'll be able to hit as well as Johnny Mac? We can only hope.

[gruber92]

Maybe if he gets more aggressive he'll be able to hit as well as Johnny Mac? We can only hope.

 

All you naysayers seem to have a predetermined knowledge that Goins will nothing but a Mendoza line type hitter, which may be the case. How about we let him play half a season before determining anything? What kills me also is that you guys seem to think his defense isn't warranted yet because of his short time in the bigs. You guys make it sound like no player has ever been an average minor leaguer but turned out to be decent MLB players. It's rare, but it does happen. What i don't get is that we are all Blue Jays fans, so why not cheer for the guy to succeed? Why all the negativity towards the guy? If AA didn't choose to upgrade the position,should we just then throw the poor guy under the bus? Why all the animosity? Did he f*** your mothers/sisters/girlfriends? The guy is an upper tier defender who has a slim chance of having an average bat based on his approach and power potential. So........................ WTF?

[G-Snarls]

I predict a mid season trade to acquire a 2B

[G-Snarls]

This thread is dumn!

 

It has certainly outlasted it's welcome. LOL

[KingKat]

Why all the negativity towards the guy?

 

I guess I'm just going to have to explain this you for the milionth time... The negativity has to do with the player being miscast. He could acually be a valubable asset as a player with options who provides good middle infield defense. There are reasons to like Goins but not liking the fact that he is at the top of the depth chart at 2B is warranted and is no some kind of personal vendetta against the player no matter how many times you try to make it seem that way. This is your constant fallback, saying that people have an irrational hatred for the guy. No one actually does. What people hate is a bad idea. Just because you can imagine some scenario where Goins works out doesn't suddenly make it a good idea to start him.

[KingKat]

Yup. As a AAA starter I'd be pretty happy with Goins as a guy who could come up and play great defense from the bench or even as a starter in a very short stretch. The problem is that, as they always do, the organization is relying on him to do a lot more than his skill set will allow him to do.

 

I just called Gruber92 out in the Game Day thread for rooting against Happ. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

[Boxcar]

What a dipshit.

[Laika]

All you naysayers seem to have a predetermined knowledge that Goins will nothing but a Mendoza line type hitter, which may be the case.

 

It's called probability. There is a lopsided chance that he hits about as much as Johnny Mac. Any expectation above that is nothing but blind, retarded optimism, rooted in ignorance, and coming from the mouths of people whose breath smells like swiss cheese crackers.

[G-Snarls]

Anyone know where I can find some minor league defense numbers for Goins (or any other player) so that I can apply Total Zone and get a better guess of what Goins true talent defense might be?

 

I don't think anyone tracks minor league batted ball results well enough to get that kind of info

[Olerud363]

All you naysayers seem to have a predetermined knowledge that Goins will nothing but a Mendoza line type hitter, which may be the case. How about we let him play half a season before determining anything? What kills me also is that you guys seem to think his defense isn't warranted yet because of his short time in the bigs. You guys make it sound like no player has ever been an average minor leaguer but turned out to be decent MLB players. It's rare, but it does happen. What i don't get is that we are all Blue Jays fans, so why not cheer for the guy to succeed? Why all the negativity towards the guy? If AA didn't choose to upgrade the position,should we just then throw the poor guy under the bus? Why all the animosity? Did he f*** your mothers/sisters/girlfriends? The guy is an upper tier defender who has a slim chance of having an average bat based on his approach and power potential. So........................ WTF?

 

Brendan Ryan. He doesn't really hit but puts up 2-4 WAR a year, mostly with defense. Cranks the on base percentage over .300 occasionally.

 

A light hitting second basemen (as opposed to ss) would probably max out at 1-2 WAR. But people are acting like it's impossible. Also Goins Buffalo numbers were a bit off what he did at New Hamphsire.. that itself could be just a bad year.

 

If he's the absolute worst hitter in baseball... then he will not be a positive. If he's just a sucky hitter. .260 .305 oba... something like that. He could be OK if his D is exceptional. So there is still kind of this range from J.P. Arencibia suckitude... to just acceptable. And we don't really know where he will end up.

 

Now that being said I think he has enough downside.. huge downside like worst hitter in baseball in the last 5 years downside... that it is real risky awarding him a job.

[gruber92]

I guess I'm just going to have to explain this you for the milionth time... The negativity has to do with the player being miscast. He could acually be a valubable asset as a player with options who provides good middle infield defense. There are reasons to like Goins but not liking the fact that he is at the top of the depth chart at 2B is warranted and is no some kind of personal vendetta against the player no matter how many times you try to make it seem that way. This is your constant fallback, saying that people have an irrational hatred for the guy. No one actually does. What people hate is a bad idea. Just because you can imagine some scenario where Goins works out doesn't suddenly make it a good idea to start him.

 

This should addressed to AA,not to a fan who sees potential in our best in house option.

[KingKat]

This should addressed to AA,not to a fan who sees potential in our best in house option.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. The negativity IS adressed at AA. You're the one who is misinterpreting it.

[Abomination]

Even just PO, A, E, DP

 

Those are available on the one baseball stats website whose existence you seem determined to excise from your memory.

[Laika]

Even just PO, A, E, DP

 

BR has that s***

[theblujay]

Just so its official, GD has taken the under on Goins getting 1 WAR (Given a reasonable amount of playing time). Gruber and I are taking the over

[Laika]

Just so its official, GD has taken the under on Goins getting 1 WAR (Given a reasonable amount of playing time). Gruber and I are taking the over

 

That actually seems like a pretty fair bet. You should really throw a PA cutoff on it though.