Can Ryan Goins stick?

[GD]

Actually, considering Ahrens is a 3B, we could have Ahrens at 3B, Schimpf at 2B, and move Lawrie back to catcher. Our holes would be filled right there. I should be GM

 

This really isn't complete without Justin Jackson as our ace.

[GD]

SP- Buehrle

SP- Dickey

SP- McGuire

SP- Romero

SP- Jackson

 

Could be a decent rotation, except Jackson would have to be stretched out as a starter in spring training. Chris King tweeted a few weeks ago that he has a major league arm.

 

Because people named King are never wrong.

[theblujay]

SP- Buehrle

SP- Dickey

SP- McGuire

SP- Romero

SP- Jackson

 

Could be a decent rotation, except Jackson would have to be stretched out as a starter in spring training. Chris King tweeted a few weeks ago that he has a major league arm.

 

Let's trade everyone and play those guys. I feel like it would work out better in the long run.

[Boxcar]

Even the president of the Ryan Goins Fan Club (theblujay) would agree with me. His most important source (Steamer, +10 runs defensive mark-up for Goins) say so.

 

Arencibia is bad, but only because he's been cast as a starter. There are many supporting player around the league (and inside our clubhouse) who would perform even worse as starters.

 

While I believe 2B must be addressed, at this point C and 2B must both be addressed or this team is going nowhere. Arguing about which one is more important is completely pointless.

[theblujay]

While I believe 2B must be addressed, at this point C and 2B must both be addressed or this team is going nowhere. Arguing about which one is more important is completely pointless.

 

I think C and pitching are by far the most important to upgrade. We have a few options at 2B, but nothing at C and a of course pitching was a disaster this year.

[Jays]

2B options internal:

Izturis

Goins

Negrych

Schimpf

 

Don't forget our Japanese superstar.

[flafson]

Thole is more valuable than Goins.

 

If that was true then Goins is useless.

The only value Thole seems to have is his glove with Dickey.

[theblujay]

But Arencibia > Goins.

 

But he's not. Goins is an excellent defender, JP is horrendous. Goins is probably even similar at the plate. JP had negative WAR, Goins didn't.

[GD]

It's hard to argue in Goins' favour here.

 

Don't worry, he will anyways.

[Laika]

DRGAF what Steamer says, I think Goins is a meh bench piece at the very most but I'd still take him over Thole or Cibs, and I don't think it's even that close.

 

I'd take Jimenez over Goins though.

 

I agree with the earlier poster who said that 2B and C are both gaping buttholes that need to plugged. f***ing ugly positions. It's silly as hell to even argue about which one could be left alone. At the absolute very least, sign a couple of cheap buttplugs like Kelly Johnson or John Buck (or one of their peers).

[gruber92]

f*** these projections. JPA f***ing stinks and has no business squatting behind a major league plate. Goins has the defensive ability to keep him employed in the MLB for years to come.

 

Ask Johnny Mac.

[gruber92]

I have to agree regarding A. J Jiminez having more value than Goins. I'd rather have Jiminez behind the plate with almost any average second baseman, rather than JPA behind the plate with Cano at second.

[GD]

I have to agree regarding A. J Jiminez having more value than Goins. I'd rather have Jiminez behind the plate with almost any average second baseman, rather than JPA behind the plate with Cano at second.

 

I would take the latter. JPA + Cano probably = 5 wins, Jimenez + average B probably equals 3-4, but I'm way too lazy to actually look up any of that.

[Laika]

I would take the latter. JPA + Cano probably = 5 wins, Jimenez + average B probably equals 3-4, but I'm way too lazy to actually look up any of that.

 

Money is a thing

[GD]

Money is a thing

 

I figured he was talking about on field production solely.

[gruber92]

I figured he was talking about on field production solely.

 

Yes i was. JPA handling the ball as often as a catcher does is a recipe for failure,even with Cano at second. There is no way projections or numbers can factor in "the JPA factor". One would have to think the starting basis in improving would have to start with a capable catcher, regardless of any improvements in other areas. There are way too many variables a catcher brings and unfortunately JPA is a negative in every aspect, except for power. Too bad power is near the bottom of the relevant list when it comes to a catcher's credentials.

[gruber92]

Totally agree, if we get a better starting catcher, the field boss if you will, you get better pitching and defense, if they're capable obviously.

 

Lets hope AA sees it this way also.

[theblujay]

You identified Steamer (with +10 runs defensively for Goins factored in) as your evaluation system of choice. Steamer has JP Arencibia at 1.8 WAR for next year. Are you saying that Steamer only matters when it agrees with you?

 

Well Steamer has JPA as a great defender so I'm not really gonna buy that at all.

 

We're talking about the guy who had a OBP hovering around .220

[GD]

Even if you make JP below-average as a defender (after applying pos. adjustment) he'd still have a higher projected WAR than Goins over a full season.

 

Define below average?

[JSFIP]

Define below average?

 

King's overall quality as a poster

[GD]

King's overall quality as a poster

 

#SHOTSFiRED

[Boxcar]

Yes i was. JPA handling the ball as often as a catcher does is a recipe for failure,even with Cano at second. There is no way projections or numbers can factor in "the JPA factor". One would have to think the starting basis in improving would have to start with a capable catcher, regardless of any improvements in other areas. There are way too many variables a catcher brings and unfortunately JPA is a negative in every aspect, except for power. Too bad power is near the bottom of the relevant list when it comes to a catcher's credentials.

 

Jorge Posada was just as bad, or even worse than JP defensively. He was a good hitter but the Yankees still won what, 4 or 5 WS with him behind the plate? Just saying, don't go overboard.

[Frenchsoup]

Jorge Posada was just as bad, or even worse than JP defensively. He was a good hitter but the Yankees still won what, 4 or 5 WS with him behind the plate? Just saying, don't go overboard.

 

Except jorge mashed and called a better game and didn't have the athlectism to do a 360 and toss it in CF like good old JP.

[gruber92]

Jorge Posada was just as bad, or even worse than JP defensively. He was a good hitter but the Yankees still won what, 4 or 5 WS with him behind the plate? Just saying, don't go overboard.

 

Saying Posada was possibly worse than JPA defensively is going a bit overboard, wouldn't ya think? Besides, those WS Yankee teams were stacked, tons of baseball IQ to go along with talent. Jorge's offense neutralized a lot of his defensive innefinciancies. JPA is just a useless plug.

[Angrioter]

Define below average?

 

King's overall quality as a poster

 

King has lost a lot of ground as a poster. He was good but "King Kalfus" and "Harvey the anormal one" caused a electric shot on his brain.

[Boxcar]

Saying Posada was possibly worse than JPA defensively is going a bit overboard, wouldn't ya think? Besides, those WS Yankee teams were stacked, tons of baseball IQ to go along with talent. Jorge's offense neutralized a lot of his defensive innefinciancies. JPA is just a useless plug.

 

If you seriously ever watched Posada catch, he was really awful. I already said he was a great hitter, but my point was that your value from catcher doesn't have to be mostly on the defensive side. You don't need some elite defender in order to compete.

[theblujay]

Even if you make JP below-average as a defender (after applying pos. adjustment) he'd still have a higher projected WAR than Goins over a full season.

 

So you'd rather have JPA or Thole over Goins?

[TBJ12]

So you'd rather have JPA or Thole over Goins?

 

I sure wouldn't.

 

This is one of those situations where I would throw WAR out the window. Goins is clearly a better defender, baserunner and much more versatile than JP. Goins will never have the power JP has, but he'll likely talk more walks and have better at bats. I'm not really sure where JP's value comes from but I'm not buying into it.

 

This doesn't mean I want Goins starting, but given the choice between Goins or JP, I'll take Goins every time.

[Angrioter]

Nope. I'd rather have Goins on the team than JP. But I'd rather have JP as a full-time starter at catcher than Goins as a full-time starter at second.

 

They're different statements.

 

Sounds logical.

JPA is more valuable than Goins undoubtedly but I prefer Goins bench role over JPA as starter.

[The Cats Ass]

Nope. I'd rather have Goins on the team than JP. But I'd rather have JP as a full-time starter at catcher than Goins as a full-time starter at second.

They're different statements.

 

What!? Atleast Goins can supply us with good defense at his position to go with his below average offense. JPA supplies us with below average defense to go with his below average offense, and then he adds in a little bit more below average defense just because he's the giving type.