Can Ryan Goins stick?

[GD]

Bad defender, doesn't walk, doesn't hit for much power (I doubt the RC will help his HR rate that much) especially since he doesn't hit many flyballs. And can't hit lefties.

 

He's managed to compensate for his defense, don't really care that he doesn't walk too much, his ISO is 10 points above league average for 2B this year, and that's a good point, but it hasn't affected him to the point where he's unusable a la Lind.

[Captain Adama]

He's managed to compensate for his defense, don't really care that he doesn't walk too much, his ISO is 10 points above league average for 2B this year, and that's a good point, but it hasn't affected him to the point where he's unusable a la Lind.

 

A 73 wRC+ is pretty close to unusable.

[GD]

A 73 wRC+ is pretty close to unusable.

 

It's at 86 for his career, and he's fought through 230 PA against them. He put up 3 wins this year with a largely reduced wRC+ vs lefties. He shouldn't be our primary option but if he's still available in February and we have no 2B he'd be a nice option.

[Abomination]

It's at 86 for his career, and he's fought through 230 PA against them. He put up 3 wins this year with a largely reduced wRC+ vs lefties. He shouldn't be our primary option but if he's still available in February and we have no 2B he'd be a nice option.

 

I don't like the idea of taking a bad infield defender and putting him on an even faster surface. Murphy does not have a strong enough bat to overlook the defense imo.

[GD]

He'd also cost one of Sanchez or Stroman via trade.

 

I doubt that, and my wanting him has been based solely on my doubts of that.

[GD]

Why would you doubt that? What else would we give up?

 

I was thinking Hutchison, but I dunno.

[GD]

That's just as bad IMO.

 

Sanchez/Stroman >> Hutchison imo but I can see your side of the argument.

 

He's still not an ideal option but worst comes to worst and if the price is right I could see it.

[TBJ12]

I'm just about positive it wouldn't cost Stroman or Sanchez. If Murphy was already a Blue Jay you'd be telling us all how little trade value he had. You certainly wouldn't be expecting a teams top prospect in return.

[GD]

Brandon Phillips may be available. Hmm.

[G-Snarls]

Is this Goins thread now the longest single-topic thread on the board??

 

(around baseball is longer of course but it's an all season multi topic thread)

[GD]

Hutch + Morrow + Sanchez?

 

Random hypothetical time; If I were negotiating this I would try and only include one of Hutch/Sanchez/Stroman and replace one with another piece but if all else failed I'd probably do it.

[KingKat]

Brandon Phillips may be available. Hmm.

 

Although I think he's a tool, the Jays are in no position to look past an opportunity like this. Even though pitching may appear to be a bigger need (actually the need is better run prevention but AA keeps calling it pitching), if there's a deal out there that makes sense, do it. Your ultimate is to improve the team as effectively as possible.

[GD]

Although I think he's a tool, the Jays are in no position to look past an opportunity like this. Even though pitching may appear to be a bigger need (actually the need is better run prevention but AA keeps calling it pitching), if there's a deal out there that makes sense, do it. Your ultimate is to improve the team as effectively as possible.

 

Brandon Phillips is good at that run prevention thing.

[KingKat]

Brandon Phillips is good at that run prevention thing.

 

Phillips at 2B with Goins on the bench or in AAA would be a great setup for the Jays no doubt.

[Angrioter]

Phillips at 2B with Goins on the bench or in AAA would be a great setup for the Jays no doubt.

 

Phillips

2011 - 122 wRC+, 157 ISO, 12.6 K%

2012 - 101 wRC+, 148 ISO, 12.7 K%

2013 - 091 wRC+, 135 ISO, 14.7 K%

 

He's falling like the harlem comet.

[GD]

Phillips at 2B with Goins on the bench or in AAA would be a great setup for the Jays no doubt.

 

That could be a 5 win swing right there (~-2 to ~3).

 

Phillips

2011 - 122 wRC+, 157 ISO, 12.6 K%

2012 - 101 wRC+, 148 ISO, 12.7 K%

2013 - 091 wRC+, 135 ISO, 14.7 K%

 

He's falling like the harlem comet.

 

2011 - .322 BABIP, 13.4 Defense

2012 - .298 BABIP, 10.8 Defense

2013 - .281 BABIP, 10.9 Defense

 

2012 seems like a reasonable expectation.

 

Also LOL @ falling like harlem comet

[theblujay]

Hutch + Morrow + Sanchez?

 

I would never ever do that trade

[GD]

I would never ever do that trade

 

And why would we need to with superstar Ryan Goins at 2B

[theblujay]

And why would we need to with superstar Ryan Goins at 2B

 

You would trade one of our best starters, our top prospect and another great young pitcher for a decent 2B when we badly need pitching?!?!? Insane

[theblujay]

Morrow is made of glass. He shouldn't even be relied on for next season, IMO. Hutch is coming off TJS. Sanchez might be tough to swallow, but we are filling our biggest hole with that trade. It's laughable that we had what, -2.5 war from the 2B position this season? I think Phillips is a little bit better than a "decent" 2B as well.

 

That trade would turn out twice as bad as the Dickey trade. I can't believe you guys

[theblujay]

Morrow is made of glass. He shouldn't even be relied on for next season, IMO. Hutch is coming off TJS. Sanchez might be tough to swallow, but we are filling our biggest hole with that trade. It's laughable that we had what, -2.5 war from the 2B position this season? I think Phillips is a little bit better than a "decent" 2B as well.

 

This is making me enraged. Morrow, when healthy, is our #1 guy. Hutch was great til he got hurt and he has a. Ton of potential. Sanchez? Only our top prospect with number one upside. Foolish

[theblujay]

What do you think is a more reasonable deal for Phillips?

 

First of all I wouldn't trade for him as he's probably going to cost too much. I'd say Sanchez/Stroman, two of the low minors guys and Sierra

[GD]

We don't badly need pitching, we badly need wins.

 

Am I the only one creeped out by the smiley face? It's like "I'm going to murder your whole family if you say one more thing about Ryan Goins "

[GD]

You over value our players

 

That and undervalues Phillips imo

[theblujay]

It's weird. Most people, myself included, on this forum don't believe the Jays have any business going forward with the plan to compete next year. The best thing for this team is pretty obviously clearing the FO and starting from scratch. And yet here we are debating the merits of moving pieces like Sanchez and Hutch for Brandon Phillips.

 

Yep absolutely insane to consider that deal.

[theblujay]

So Goins put up 0.4 WAR in 30 games. Phillips had 2.7 WAR this year. Extrapolate Goins for a full season and he's not that far from Phillips. Of course we can't be sure what to expect from Goins, could be better, could be worse.

 

You guys are severely underrating Morrow and Hutch.

[theblujay]

That and undervalues Phillips imo

 

He's a good defender, but his bat isn't that much better than Izturis'. (Before you freak out look at career wRC+)

[ElNik2013]

So Goins put up 0.4 WAR in 30 games. Phillips had 2.7 WAR this year. Extrapolate Goins for a full season and he's not that far from Phillips. Of course we can't be sure what to expect from Goins, could be better, could be worse.

 

You guys are severely underrating Morrow and Hutch.

 

 

I wouldn't do that deal, but let's face it, Morrow may need TJS for all we know and Hutchison is coming off TJS, they don't much value. In fact, their low value is one reason not to trade them at this time. The Blue Jays have no choice but to hope that Morrow is healthy and good next season, it's one of the things that needs to go right for them to have a chance.

[theblujay]

I wouldn't do that deal, but let's face it, Morrow may need TJS for all we know and Hutchison is coming off TJS, they don't much value. In fact, their low value is one reason not to trade them at this time. The Blue Jays have no choice but to hope that Morrow is healthy and good next season, it's one of the things that needs to go right for them to have a chance.

 

That's another reason why that trade makes no sense. Morrow and Hutch could be much, much more valuable next year than they are now.

[theblujay]

lol

 

What's wrong with what I said? Phillips isn't really that much of an upgrade to be worth those 3 pitchers, not even considering his contract.