Can Ryan Goins stick?

[theblujay]

So can you recite to me every pitch of every PA from Goins this year?

 

Novel concept; watch the games and use the data. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

I haven't watched a game in a month so I don't know the answer, but I'm sure you can get a better idea about his approach by watching some ABs than looking at P/PA and swing %. Is he swinging at curves in the dirt? Or cutters just off the plate. Big difference. Who's throwing those pitches? What speed? What pitch was before that? What's the count? Who's on base?

[GD]

I haven't watched a game in a month so I don't know the answer, but I'm sure you can get a better idea about his approach by watching some ABs than looking at P/PA and swing %.

 

I haven't actually used any of these in an attempt to evaluate his approach, or him as a whole. I brought up pitch/PA to dispel the notion he takes more pitches relative to other rookies, and everything else you're referencing is the kind of data I want, lol.

[theblujay]

I haven't actually used any of these in an attempt to evaluate his approach, or him as a whole. I brought up pitch/PA to dispel the notion he takes more pitches relative to other rookies, and everything else you're referencing is the kind of data I want, lol.

 

I just don't think you can put all of those into numbers accurately

[GD]

I just don't think you can put all of those into numbers accurately

 

Pitch F/X data would sure as hell be better than an eyeball approximation

[theblujay]

Pitch F/X data would sure as hell be better than an eyeball approximation

 

Maybe over a huge sample, but it's very close

[flafson]

Do me a favour and please never ever reproduce.

 

Reported.

[Convo]

It's a little bit disgusting that this thread has so much traction (not that I don't like Goins so far too).

[Smokey]

Reported.

 

Exhorted.

[flafson]

Reported for what? That was probably the nicest mean thing he could have said

 

When you say something like "If we had Goins in April I feel like we could have 5 more wins alone from his defense", you are going to get called out

 

That's a very reasonable claim i made, Bonifacio/Izturis were a huge minus and you get someone with above average D at that position, i'm pretty sure we could have been 5 games better off. Doesn't mean he would have had 5 WAR or something like that.

[Boxcar]

It's a little bit disgusting that this thread has so much traction (not that I don't like Goins so far too).

 

Never underestimate packs of casual fans. They love rooting for underdogs and will celebrate small samples to prove how right they are until that player predictably falls on his face. Then they move on to the next shitbag and repeat.

 

Who will it be in the Spring? I can't wait!

[Boxcar]

I love how you've anointed yourself such an intellect that you now have started to treat people like they are stupid because you have recently started spewing out exotic statistics that you steal from the couple of guys you ass kiss while not to long ago you were posting some of the dumbest s*** around... anyhow to stay on topic I think it comes down too your just a hater and you can't enjoy someone playing well ..he is not supposed too because the stats say so ... I think that's what the majority of negative posts in this thread feel like

 

*you're

[Boxcar]

That's a very reasonable claim i made, Bonifacio/Izturis were a huge minus and you get someone with above average D at that position, i'm pretty sure we could have been 5 games better off. Doesn't mean he would have had 5 WAR or something like that.

 

You don't get to decide if your own claim was reasonable since you wouldn't have seriously said it if you considered it unreasonable. All this shows me is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[flafson]

You don't get to decide if your own claim was reasonable since you wouldn't have seriously said it if you considered it unreasonable. All this shows me is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

I said it's reasonable and gave a reason for it because the way he answered me showed me that maybe he didn't understand me.

 

I understand that it's a common theme here (and the old forum) to call everyone you disagree with stupid but you (or anyone else who does that) shouldn't dis other people just because they don't agree with them.

 

Everyone should be able to lay their ideas and thoughts on the table without name calling by others.

[theblujay]

Of course he's most likely not going to be a very good mlb player but why all the hate for how he's playing now

 

Don't bother telling these guys that as they can't seem to enjoy a player playing well without parading all their sabr stats to show he sucks.

[KingKat]

Don't bother telling these guys that as they can't seem to enjoy a player playing well without parading all their sabr stats to show he sucks.

 

Oh, get over yourself already. Nobody has a problem with players playing well. The problem is when the expectation for a player get completely re-written because of success over a small sample size. That's when the SABR stats come out. Not as a way of bashing the player but as a way of keeping expectations realistic.

[TheHurl]

Don't bother telling these guys that as they can't seem to enjoy a player playing well without parading all their sabr stats to show he sucks.

 

Says the guy who wrote...

 

I haven't watched a game in a month so I don't know the answer

 

Hope you are enjoying Goins playing well.

[theblujay]

Says the guy who wrote...

 

 

 

Hope you are enjoying Goins playing well.

 

I don't see how they relate. I haven't cared about the MLB team for a couple weeks now, but I've been checking the box scores and I'm glad to see Goins playing well.

[GD]

Of course he's most likely not going to be a very good mlb player but why all the hate for how he's playing now

 

There's no hate for Goins, for the most part. I really like Ryan Goins. He's been a prospect I've quite liked for some time now, probably since his A+ days. But the thing about this thread that's about 19 pages too long, is that people are now changing their expectations on Goins based on a whole 3 plate appearances or some s***. The 'hate' (read: using useful statistics) is merely, as Kat said, a way of tempering expectations and keeping ourselves realistic. Is it possible Ryan Goins turns into like a 3 fWAR player? Sure, but I'd probably put that at lottery ticket chances. But I definitely hope it happens.

[gruber92]

There's no hate for Goins, for the most part. I really like Ryan Goins. He's been a prospect I've quite liked for some time now, probably since his A+ days. But the thing about this thread that's about 19 pages too long, is that people are now changing their expectations on Goins based on a whole 3 plate appearances or some s***. The 'hate' (read: using useful statistics) is merely, as Kat said, a way of tempering expectations and keeping ourselves realistic. Is it possible Ryan Goins turns into like a 3 fWAR player? Sure, but I'd probably put that at lottery ticket chances. But I definitely hope it happens.

 

Let's be real for a second. Maybe you're an exemption but the "hive" on here want him to fail, so they can reflect back on this thread and hammer out to everyone how their statistical genie is NEVER WRONG. It would be too much of a disappointment if Goins does in fact stick, especially with the traction this thread has. I bet even if he does stick, they'll still find reasons on why he shouldn't be here. It's almost like their not real fans anymore, just a bunch of statistical gurus managing a baseball team in a video game.

[GD]

It's almost like their not real fans anymore

 

That's such horseshit. Just because some people who's views differ from yours doesn't mean they love the team any less than you do.

[theblujay]

That's such horseshit. Just because some people who's views differ from yours doesn't mean they love the team any less than you do.

 

They're don't only differ, they want someone on the team to fail because they don't want a Thames 2.0 or something, like thats exactly what will happen if Goins plays well. Some straight up said they hope Goins fails horribly the rest of the year.

[gruber92]

That's such horseshit. Just because some people who's views differ from yours doesn't mean they love the team any less than you do.

When you're hoping for a player who has shown that he has the tools (defensively a given) that can dramatically improve the team at 2B to fail, then you're not a fan. Please do not refer JPA here, because he actually doesn't have tools, so of course everybody wants him to fail and gtfo.

[GD]

so of course everybody wants him to fail and gtfo.

 

I think it's clear enough that everyone wants what's best for the team, and just because you disagree with their view doesn't mean they don't want what's best for the team.

[gruber92]

I've said it. I'd much rather he fail in September than play well and trick the moronic front office into Thames-ing him.

 

How the f*** can the Goins situation be anywhere remotely close to the Thames situation? Thames couldn't play a good left field in a +30 beer league, where Goins has shown and has the tools to be an above average defender. What a crock.

[gruber92]

Goins MIGHT be a decent bench option... I see it's reasonable that people don't want him to have a BABIP fueled September and hit over .300, because then our idiot GM might pencil him in as 2B next season. Also, "Player who has shown the tools", it's been a week. I'm sure you could find a weeks worth of games that show JPA "has DA tools".

 

So I guess we can throw all the years of his plus defensive play in the minors because minor league scouting reports mean jack. Sorry, i forgot.

[GD]

Basically it was an earlier version of this thread.

 

Only JP might actually be worse than Goins

[gruber92]

He's not comparing the players.... He's comparing the situation.

 

The situations are not the same. We're just hoping that Goins can hit to stick, in Thames we were looking for a f***ing miracle. The only way Thames would've stuck is if he hit 300 with 25-30 HR power. The offensive expectations for Goins are nowhere near the same, from a second baseman's type numbers of course.

[gruber92]

1. Non-prospect comes up and has good August and September.

2. The fans get excited. The team hands him a starting role the following season based on his performance.

3. The player very predictably tanks and the team's decision to let him start costs them some wins.

 

If you think this has no chance of happening with Goins you haven't been paying attention to the gong show under AA.

 

I've always said I think he has a 10% chance of sticking, if not here then somewhere else. That actually means I think he had a 90% chance of not sticking. Can you grasp that for a second please?

[GD]

Ryan Goins is not a better player than Eric Thames. They have different skill sets, but Goins' bat is every bit as bad as Thames' glove.

 

The question to determine who's shittier is if Goins' glove can be better than Thames' bat, lol.

[gruber92]

Ryan Goins is not a better player than Eric Thames. They have different skill sets, but Goins' bat is every bit as bad as Thames' glove.

 

Lol!! Do you even watch the games?