Why "retooling" won't fix this team.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

2013 Jays payroll: $118,244,039 (top 10 in the league)

 

Teams since 2000 who were top 10 in payroll, finished in last place, and didn't significantly decrease payroll (as in falling out of the top 10) the following year:

 

2000 - Texas Rangers (71-91, 73-89 in 2001)

2001 - Texas Rangers (73-89, 72-90 in 2002)

2002 - Texas Rangers (72-90, 71-91 in 2003); New York Mets (75-86, 66-95 in 2003)

2003 - New York Mets (66-95, 71-91 in 2004)

2004 - Seattle Mariners (63-99, 69-93 in 2005)

2005 - Seattle Mariners (69-93, 78-84 in 2006)

2008 - Seattle Mariners (61-101, 85-77 and still no playoffs in 2009)

2010 - Seattle Mariners (61-101, 67-95 in 2011)

 

Recent history has shown that continuing to spend a lot after overpaying for a bad team doesn't really have any positive effect. Often, these teams would end up mired in last place again, or at least second-to-last. The one team that managed to follow a last-place season with an over-.500 one without slashing payroll was the Mariners in '09, and even then, they didn't sniff the playoffs. It's abundantly clear that blowing this team up and rebuilding is the right course of action.

[CHRIS]

I think re-tooling could work. What I don't want to see is any further gutting of the farm to make this work. AA made risky moves and lost. He shouldn't compound that by trading a guy like Sanchez in order to try and save face. That would no longer be risky, but just downright reckless.

[z3r0s]

Analysis like that is not all that telling... more trivially interesting.

 

Our issue this year has been ZERO top end pitching. The offense is fine, the BP is fine (which doesn't mean it will be next year).

 

If Morrow can come back that helps a lot. If we can replace JJ with someone better (even a better version off JJ) that helps a lot. If Dickey is better that helps a lot.

 

Those are our issues.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

It's not just the top-end pitching. Yes, our rotation sucks, but we also have no depth and the catcher and 2B are a joke on this team - especially at C, where we have a -1.2 team RPP and -5 rSB, meaning our catchers are below league average at throwing out runners, preventing steals, and blocking pitches. On top of that, JPAtrocious can't even call a game - Gibbons has had to take over and start calling games from the dugout sometimes.

 

The "talent" we have among our position players is a bunch of selfish players who are declining and lack baseball IQ. We have one of the worst and dumbest defensive teams in baseball - top 10 in team errors, allowing 4.85 runs per game (only Houston has allowed more) with a -6.2 team ErrR and -8.4 team UZR. Even the vaunted bullpen is starting to implode from overuse - and if the strength of your team is the middle relievers, your team sucks anyway.

 

The GM is a dumbass who destroyed our farm system to put together this horrible team. The manager is incompetent at motivating his players, instilling fundamental baseball, and cutting down on errors and sloppy play. The president knows nothing about baseball and still has a job basically because of organizational politics.

 

This team is so screwed up in every conceivable way that the only thing to do is blow it up. "Retooling" does nothing when the core is flawed.

[The_DH]

Retooling with bad management won't work.

[SAAviour]

If we go into next season with basically the same squad, we will have no chance next year.

It was a good attempt I think to go for it this year, but it didn't work and it is time to admit the mistakes and cut the losses.

I would be all for blowing this team up, it's clear they aren't a good team. Start from scratch.

Unfortunately Rogers will never allow this.

[The Cats Ass]

How many of those teams actually re-tooled though? Or did they go into the next season with the exact same team? What the RedSox did last year is what I call re-tooling. (Dumping a bunch of talent and then getting different talent)

 

And you forgot to add the RedSox to your list, didn't they end up in last place last year? And what are they doing this year...

[BlueJayWay]

Whether it's the right thing to do or not, they will try to retool. I don't see Rogers blowing this thing up now, not with the ratings and attendance being what it is. I could see them pushing more money in to try to compete.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

How many of those teams actually re-tooled though? Or did they go into the next season with the exact same team?

 

Good question.

 

The Rangers signed A-Rod before the '01 season and brought back Juan Gonzalez before the '02 season.

The Mets added Glavine and Cone before the '03 season.

The Mariners signed Beltre before the '05 season, made that hideous Bedard trade before the '08 season, and brought in Figgins and Cliff Lee before the 2010 season.

 

So yeah, I'd say those teams retooled.

 

And you forgot to add the RedSox to your list, didn't they end up in last place last year? And what are they doing this year...

I did forget Boston, thanks for noticing. My bad.

 

They're the exception that proves the rule - and they still might not even make the playoffs. Even then, I'd say the trade they made with the Dodgers last year qualifies as more rebuilding than retooling. They essentially made a huge salary dump and gutted their roster of overpaid cancers, as opposed to adding to a bad team through big signings like A-Rod in '01 or panic trades for star players like Cliff Lee in 2010.

[The Cats Ass]

If the Blue Jays really loved us they would let Johnson walk, trade Boni, get rid of Melky, send JPA to AAA. Then sign Cano, McCann, and Hughes.

[BlueJayWay]

I don't think I want Hughes. Extreme flyball pitcher, mehhhhhhh

[The Cats Ass]

I think he's underrated and we could get him on a good contract. He's still only 28. And his home at New York hasn't been kind to him. I think he could be had for a 4-5 year contract which would be his prime years.

[TheHurl]

with data like this it's obvious we are f***ed. How do we want to go, group cyanide? hanging in BTS parents basement? All go on a picnic with the Dogg?

[Jimcanuck]

with data like this it's obvious we are f***ed. How do we want to go, group cyanide? hanging in BTS parents basement? All go on a picnic with the Dogg?

 

Let's not hit the panic button... might give AA ideas

[The Cats Ass]

with data like this it's obvious we are f***ed. How do we want to go, group cyanide? hanging in BTS parents basement? All go on a picnic with the Dogg?

 

I vote picnic with the Dogg. We're more likely to make the news that way. I can see the headlines now!

 

"Man found with stuffed bodies in his attic, he says they're his friends"

[Olerud363]

Analysis like that is not all that telling... more trivially interesting.

 

Our issue this year has been ZERO top end pitching. The offense is fine, the BP is fine (which doesn't mean it will be next year).

 

If Morrow can come back that helps a lot. If we can replace JJ with someone better (even a better version off JJ) that helps a lot. If Dickey is better that helps a lot.

 

Those are our issues.

 

The offense is average... Not a positive or a negative. It looks slightly above average at the moment but these things go up and down.

 

League average OPS... a little more runs scored then one would expect. Their more likely to finish 9th in runs scored then 3rd.

 

Anyway this happened last year. The offense is OK. Not a elite offense... but good enough that if they had elite pitching it would work.