Stoeten "insufferable sour pusses"

[KingKat]

Stoeten posted his AA f***ed up but not really because he was unlucky and the Red Sox were lucky but really there the same post today:

 

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2013/08/12/reality-check/comment-page-1/#comment-324982

 

I got into it with him in the comments a bit and he encouraged me to share with you my fellow circle-jerkers.

 

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    • KingKat says:

      
      08.13.13 @ 2:10 PM EDT REPLY
      

      
      Sure luck played a role but luck always plays a role. If you’re a smart poker player, you don’t just count on luck, you measure your odds and you evaluate your risk. Yes it could have worked differently for the Jays with better luck but what were the odds and did those odds justify sacrificing prospect capital and payroll flexibility? Did AA’s moves really have a better chance of panning out then say the James Shield trade? If you remember not everyone was on this band wagon, TaoOfStieb wasn’t and neither was Jon Hale. There were a ton of sceptics within the more sabermetrically inclined portion of the fanbase as plenty of message board discussion can demonstrate. Not eveyone who criticizes is a reactionnary.
      The genius of the Red Sox moves wasn’t that they panned out and the Jays didn’t. Good fortune surely played a part in that. The true genius was how little risk the Red Sox took on in their attempt to improve their team. They kept their prospects, they didn’t take on long term contracts. Is it harder for the Jays to do that? Absolutely. The Jays need to overpay to sign free agents but overpaying through salaries that you acquire by trade in addition to trading prospects is hardly a desirable alternative. This was bad process. Optimism is intoxicating and can may you root for bad process but it shouldn’t make you lose sight that the process is bad. Flags Fly Forever can be a pretty facile justification for some bad decision making (yes that’s a poke at Drew but the guy should know better).
      
      
       
      

      • Jaysfan23 says:

        
        08.13.13 @ 2:13 PM EDT REPLY
        

        
        Getting James shields would have cost use D’arnaud + Syndergaard + prospects from the marlins trade
        
        
         
        

        • KingKat says:

          
          08.13.13 @ 2:52 PM EDT REPLY
          

          
          I’m not advocating getting James Shieds. I’m just saying what the Jays did was no smarter than the widely panned James Shields trade.
          
          
          

         

        [*]

        Andrew Stoeten says:

        08.13.13 @ 2:22 PM EDT REPLY

        If you’re unwilling to comprehend anything related to the timing of the deals or the pressures to not sit idle for several more years, and how that complicates things further, please, by all means, go back to your little messageboard circle jerk. Declaring “this was bad process” shows that you have your head deeper in the sand than the people you’re attempting to criticize.

         

        • KingKat says:

          
          08.13.13 @ 2:50 PM EDT REPLY
          

          
          I can’t understand the context of the move? The context of taking on a lot of risk to add to a team that wansn’t a contender in the first place. I suppose that’s good process. But yeah sure, I’m the one with the head in the sand.
          
          
          

     

[KingKat]

Wow, your post was completely on the mark and Stoeten looks like a f***ing idiot for dismissing you outright like that.

 

Stoeten is the new Wilner.

[Ziggyy108]

Stoeten is honestly one of the biggest piece of s*** writers i've come across in my life. His entire f***ing life is covering the blue jays and he feels like he is the greatest f***ing thing on this planet. Seriously. All he does is f***ing call people stupid and bitch about them.

 

Get a f***ing life buddy. Who does he honestly think he is. Cynical hipster. Take a f***ing look at your life you piece of s***.

[Ziggyy108]

The guy is the biggest piece of s*** around.

[KingKat]

Stoeten is honestly one of the biggest piece of s*** writers i've come across in my life. His entire f***ing life is covering the blue jays and he feels like he is the greatest f***ing thing on this planet. Seriously. All he does is f***ing call people stupid and bitch about them.

 

Get a f***ing life buddy. Who does he honestly think he is. Cynical hipster. Take a f***ing look at your life you piece of s***.

 

He's incredibly thin skinned and he doesn't seem to realize that he's the one who is bringing down the level of discussion on his site by being such a reactionary. If eveyone you talk to is an ******* then you know maybe you're the *******.

[Angrioter]

Stoeten posted his AA f***ed up but not really because he was unlucky and the Red Sox were lucky but really there the same post today:

 

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2013/08/12/reality-check/comment-page-1/#comment-324982

 

I got into it with him in the comments a bit and he encouraged me to share with you my fellow circle-jerkers.

 

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  • 
     
    

    • KingKat says:

      
      08.13.13 @ 2:10 PM EDT REPLY
      

      
      Sure luck played a role but luck always plays a role. If you’re a smart poker player, you don’t just count on luck, you measure your odds and you evaluate your risk. Yes it could have worked differently for the Jays with better luck but what were the odds and did those odds justify sacrificing prospect capital and payroll flexibility? Did AA’s moves really have a better chance of panning out then say the James Shield trade? If you remember not everyone was on this band wagon, TaoOfStieb wasn’t and neither was Jon Hale. There were a ton of sceptics within the more sabermetrically inclined portion of the fanbase as plenty of message board discussion can demonstrate. Not eveyone who criticizes is a reactionnary.
      The genius of the Red Sox moves wasn’t that they panned out and the Jays didn’t. Good fortune surely played a part in that. The true genius was how little risk the Red Sox took on in their attempt to improve their team. They kept their prospects, they didn’t take on long term contracts. Is it harder for the Jays to do that? Absolutely. The Jays need to overpay to sign free agents but overpaying through salaries that you acquire by trade in addition to trading prospects is hardly a desirable alternative. This was bad process. Optimism is intoxicating and can may you root for bad process but it shouldn’t make you lose sight that the process is bad. Flags Fly Forever can be a pretty facile justification for some bad decision making (yes that’s a poke at Drew but the guy should know better).
      
      
       
      

      • Jaysfan23 says:

        
        08.13.13 @ 2:13 PM EDT REPLY
        

        
        Getting James shields would have cost use D’arnaud + Syndergaard + prospects from the marlins trade
        
        
         
        

        • KingKat says:

          
          08.13.13 @ 2:52 PM EDT REPLY
          

          
          I’m not advocating getting James Shieds. I’m just saying what the Jays did was no smarter than the widely panned James Shields trade.
          
          
          

         

        [*]

        Andrew Stoeten says:

        08.13.13 @ 2:22 PM EDT REPLY

        If you’re unwilling to comprehend anything related to the timing of the deals or the pressures to not sit idle for several more years, and how that complicates things further, please, by all means, go back to your little messageboard circle jerk. Declaring “this was bad process” shows that you have your head deeper in the sand than the people you’re attempting to criticize.

         

        • KingKat says:

          
          08.13.13 @ 2:50 PM EDT REPLY
          

          
          I can’t understand the context of the move? The context of taking on a lot of risk to add to a team that wansn’t a contender in the first place. I suppose that’s good process. But yeah sure, I’m the one with the head in the sand.
          
          
          

     

 

Great read.

[KingKat]

Good post KingKat.

 

Regardless of what people think our chances are next year, the Dickey trade was a bad decision and we would be better off with Syndergaard and D'Arnaud. You can't deny that no matter how much better certain pieces are going to be simply by regressing.

 

Maybe you shouldn't have used your Kat moniker, Stoeten seems to have recognized you from this board. "go back to your little messageboard circle jerk." lol

 

I mentionned Message Boards in my post because I wanted to attack the idiotic strawman that says that everyone who hates the Jays moves now, loved them then but I shouldn't have used it because it gave him an easy out. The funny thing is that Stoeten loves Jon Hale and I also cited him. By Stoeten's logic is Jon Hale also incapable of putting moves into context?

 

I doubt Stoeten recognize me from message boards but if he did what difference would it make. It's not like I act like the raging imbecile that he wants to believe I am.

[GD]

My god, Stoeten is a dumbass. Keep fighting the good fight, Kat.

[z3r0s]

I mentionned Message Boards in my post because I wanted to attack the idiotic strawman that says that everyone who hates the Jays moves now, loved them then but I shouldn't have used it because it gave him an easy out. The funny thing is that Stoeten loves Jon Hale and I also cited him. By Stoeten's logic is Jon Hale also incapable of putting moves into context?

 

I doubt Stoeten recognize me from message boards but if he did what difference would it make. It's not like I act like the raging imbecile that he wants to believe I am.

 

Doesn't it piss you off when you take the time to write a well thought out rebuttal and someone just sluffs it off. I guess it means you won tho, so that can't feel that bad. Nice job.

[KingKat]

Yeah that's true. I hate people who use that stupid excuse. The Jays are spending $120M to lose 90 games, have no farm system, and only a couple more years with the current core... and some think the GM has done a fantastic job. I don't get it. If some random other team was in our situation guys like Stoeten would be poking fun at the situation.

 

Those Marlins contracts were panned when they were signed last year. What has changed? I think if anyone other than Jeffrey Loria was a the helm, the Marlins would have been praised for changing course. They dumped all their bad commitments, they picked up prospects and they weren't a contender to begin with. What's not to like?

[Angrioter]

Good post KingKat.

 

Regardless of what people think our chances are next year, the Dickey trade was a bad decision and we would be better off with Syndergaard and D'Arnaud. You can't deny that no matter how much better certain pieces are going to be simply by regressing.

 

Maybe you shouldn't have used your Kat moniker, Stoeten seems to have recognized you from this board. "go back to your little messageboard circle jerk." lol

 

Stoeten knows us to thousand meters away, he just reads a smart line/sentence and quickly identifies as a member of this messageboard.

 

bwt We have the worst catcher in baseball and the old #4 SP in baseball. Syndergaard and dArnaud are a big upgrade over them.

[z3r0s]

Those Marlins contracts were panned when they were signed last year. What has changed? I think if anyone other than Jeffrey Loria was a the helm, the Marlins would have been praised. They dumped all their bad commitments, they picked up prospects and they weren't a contender to begin with. What's not to like?

 

Was the Reyes contract panned? I thought it was fairly well received.

[KingKat]

Was the Reyes contract panned? I thought it was fairly well received.

 

Maybe not panned but it was seen as a bad fit since it pushed Hanley off of SS (and practically out of town). That was also the same problem with that contract from the Jays perspective. They had a SS. If AA swallows his pride and accepts the Escobar fallout, the Jays don't need to make such a massive investment at SS. Even Hech as terrible as he is offensively was a viable enough option for the Jays to justify putting their money elsewhere.

[Angrioter]

Yeah that's true. I hate people who use that stupid excuse. The Jays are spending $120M to lose 90 games, have no farm system, and only a couple more years with the current core... and some think the GM has done a fantastic job. I don't get it. If some random other team was in our situation guys like Stoeten would be poking fun at the situation.

 

Our destiny, our chance of winning the World Series is on the free agency, overpaying and/or paying the luxury tax. We are a joke, our helmsman has no compass.

[Nox]

Stoeten: 6800 followers despite a national platform.

 

The people have spoken and they don't like you.

[Frag]

Drew's response was much better:

 

"If you’re a smart poker player, you don’t just count on luck, you measure your odds and you evaluate your risk."

 

This isn’t poker. There are so many more possible outcomes in baseball, as front offices deal in humans, not playing cards.

 

As far as risk goes, you have to take some risk at some point, don’t you? Like the Red Sox, the Jays had solid core pieces (Bautista, EE, Rasmus) to build around. Spending money for Napoli’s & Victorinos isn’t really an option.

 

They took a risk, of course, but what is the alternative? Sitting around waiting for Noah Syndergaard? Looking at the Red Sox farm and the Yankees coffers and thinking “you know, maybe we can make a go of this in a few more years.”

 

The time was now. The risk was real but so was their potential for reward. You don’t think they considered the chance it all went bust, as it has?

 

There are no rewards for “most prospect capital” or “best process in a non-winning season.” They wanted to win. They aren’t going to this season, but they can regroup and still compete next year.

[Ziggyy108]

Like I said, Stoeten is the worst writer I have seen in my life. The kid is a punk. Look at his life. Cover the Toronto Blue Jays every single day and bash every fan he doesnt agree with. The guy is a piece of s***.

[GD]

Drew's response was much better:

 

That's more reasonable. I like Fairservice. Very good writer.

[Terminator]

ITT: A bunch of butt hurt posters who hate someone because he disagrees with them.

[SpeedyGose]

Stoeten: 6800 followers despite a national platform.

 

The people have spoken and they don't like you.

 

Unfollowed him in the offseason, haven't had the urge to check his profile even once.

 

To quote spanky, he's such a knob jockey

[Terminator]

You're so edgy and contrary!

 

If Stoeten was banging on the Fire AA drum he'd be a board hero. But instead he calls this board out for being a big circlejerk (and it is) and offers a differing opinion and he's hated just a couple of seasons after being quite popular. Am I wrong?

 

Judge a writer/blogger for their work, not whether you agree with it or not.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Terminator
I was being mean but felt bad.

[Angrioter]

If Stoeten was banging on the Fire AA drum he'd be a board hero. But instead he calls this board out for being a big circlejerk (and it is) and offers a differing opinion and he's hated just a couple of seasons after being quite popular. Am I wrong?

 

Judge a writer/blogger for their work, not whether you agree with it or not.

 

Stoeten? Are you there?

[Terminator]

I know you're smart enough to see his response in the posted exchange as the pathetic and lazy drivel it is. His lack of objectivity and unwillingness to call a spade a spade makes his work unreadable. If you're going to tear people apart for calling last offseason poor process, you had better damn well have a convincing argument to the contrary. He doesn't.

 

In the comments section he's supposed to take on all criticism? I can't think of any writers who bother with that. He's written plenty on last offseason and continues to do so, he doesn't need to reply to the knights of this board just because you demand it. It's not really fair to judge a blogger for his replies in the comments section rather than the actual blog itself.

 

And if his work is really that bad then why did everyone love him just a couple of seasons ago? It's because the board used to agree with him and now they don't.

[Ziggyy108]

If Stoeten was banging on the Fire AA drum he'd be a board hero. But instead he calls this board out for being a big circlejerk (and it is) and offers a differing opinion and he's hated just a couple of seasons after being quite popular. Am I wrong?

 

Judge a writer/blogger for their work, not whether you agree with it or not.

 

 

I am judging him by his work. His writing is f***ing horrible. The kid is a hack. Cynical hipster who's life is to cover a baseball team. No wonder he seems like he is permanently depressed and in a state of hate.

[GD]

I am judging him by his work. His writing is f***ing horrible. The kid is a hack. Cynical hipster who's life is to cover a baseball team. No wonder he seems like he is permanently depressed and in a state of hate.

 

My god, we get it. You don't like him.

[Terminator]

I am judging him by his work. His writing is f***ing horrible. The kid is a hack. Cynical hipster who's life is to cover a baseball team. No wonder he seems like he is permanently depressed and in a state of hate.

 

Lol, if Stoeten seems like he is permanently depressed and in a state of hate what do you think of this board? Because in comparison to this board, Stoeten seems like the eternal optimist.

[Clojojo]

few fanbases have put up with so much s*** for so long

maybe the mets

honestly f*** this organization I hope Rogers is forced to sell it at some point

[Terminator]

Its not that he doesn't respond to all of the criticism, its that he doesn't respond properly to any of it. KingKat presented a rational and well-written argument, and because Stoeten did not like the message he dismissed it entirely without actually addressing it. That's lazy, and its become his MO.

 

As for your second point, you're wrong. Most people on the board allowed their opinion to change in the face of new evidence. That's commendable. A big part of the issue people have with Stoeten is that he has largely ignored the new evidence, his opinion unwavering. That isn't a respectable trait. He exacerbates that by acting like a pompous jackass when he's called out on opinions that have become very difficult to defend.

 

1- A lot of writers/bloggers don't pay attention to their comments section a whole lot. The article/blog post is the money maker and the truth is, he doesn't give a s*** about what a couple of comments say. A lot of your criticism focuses on the comments section. It'd be kind of cool to find a writer who put a big emphasis on that but most seem to focus on the actual column/blog post itself.

 

2- He didn't act like a jackass to contrary viewpoints two years ago? He most def did, he just did it to people the board also disagreed with so no one made a big fuss about it.

[Terminator]

few fanbases have put up with so much s*** for so long

maybe the mets

honestly f*** this organization I hope Rogers is forced to sell it at some point

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I present Exhibit A as evidence for "insufferable sour pusses." lol

[Nox]

If you're going to tear people apart for calling last offseason poor process, you had better damn well have a convincing argument to the contrary. He doesn't.

 

His "baseball is hard" rebuttal doesn't qualify as convincing?