J.P. Ricciardi's Guys Driving 2013 Blue Jays

[GD]

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2013/6/21/4452258/j-p-ricciardis-guys-driving-2013-blue-jays

 

Interesting article. I know some people here have noticed this but here's an actual evaluation on Ricciardi's impact on the Blue Jays this year.

[Metallijay]

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2013/6/21/4452258/j-p-ricciardis-guys-driving-2013-blue-jays

 

Interesting article. I know some people here have noticed this but here's an actual evaluation on Ricciardi's impact on the Blue Jays this year.

 

Can't deny, there is a lot of truth to that.

[dineke]

Pretty crazy that it turns out JPR was a better gm than AA is considering the hype AA had a couple of years ago.

[imsorry4beatinU]

Pretty crazy that it turns out JPR was a better gm than AA is considering the hype AA had a couple of years ago.

 

I don't get it, what is with the hate of AA suddenly? It feels like all the trolls work in the old board had an affect on how many of you feel about AA now. AA made trades and took risk to improve a mediocre team for a decade to a team with potential.

[HERPDERP]

It's pointless. Of course JP has had more of an impact - he had a longer time with this club to watch his own drafted guys to make a difference, i.e. Cecil, Jannsen

[admin]

I didn't read the article, but I've always defended JP.

[ElNik2013]

AA was a Ricciardi guy, wasn't he? I mean, he was hired by JPR. Also, I think giving credit to anyone for Bautista and EE is a stretch and I include AA in this. Why? Well, Bautista was acquired in 2008 and it's not like he was acquired and given a full time position. If he had been given a full time position and flourished, then I'd see the point, but there was a lot of luck involved. EE was so bad as a 3B that he was released in 2010 (?) and then not resigned by Oakland (I think) and AA brought him back, not gonna give AA credit either, they were lucky. Pretty funny that Lind is mentioned as well. He was pretty bad for the last 2 years so. Weren't Cecil and Janssen starters?

 

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti Ricciardi guy, but could we not make the same case for Ricciardi's good teams? I mean, didn't he also inherit Halladay, Wells, Rios among others?

 

 

Anyway...

[ElNik2013]

Also, pretty funny that everyone's favourite whipping boy, none other than JPA, is considered to be part of the group driving the Blue Jays. He sure looked good blocking that pitch in the dirt during today's game.

[ManOnThird]

Ricciardi was pretty decent, he just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And he had to gut the payroll in his first couple years making a lot of people hate him right at the start, i.e. the Carlos Delgado situation. It didn't help that he also said obviously dumb things. "It's not a lie if we know the truth." Actually, that's the very definition of what a lie is.

[Caper]

Pretty crazy that it turns out JPR was a better gm than AA is considering the hype AA had a couple of years ago.

 

No.

[Caper]

Ricciardi was pretty decent, he just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And he had to gut the payroll in his first couple years making a lot of people hate him right at the start, i.e. the Carlos Delgado situation. It didn't help that he also said obviously dumb things. "It's not a lie if we know the truth." Actually, that's the very definition of what a lie is.

 

This is more correct.

[Abomination]

Ricciardi basically came in with a plan based on how the A's were operating at the time, executed it, and found out that what worked in the AL West didn't work in the AL East. AA had/has a plan, has so far (by all appearances) executed it, and it's yet to be determined whether it will work or not. The one big difference that I see is that AA seems to be more flexible with the plan (evidenced by the pen this year).

[John_Havok]

I take issue with the entire premise of the article. E5 was a throw in to the trade of Rolen because the jays needed a 3b and cinci wanted to get rid of a failed player. Yes he had upside, but he wasn't the main target of the trade. It's not like JPR was like " we need encarnacion or no deal.." And from all accounts, it was cito who lobbied to get Bautista, it just happened p be JPR's signature that had to be on the page. Also, crediting a GM fr Cecil and janssen as lockdown pen arms when they were both developed as starters and subsequently sucked at it....How exactly does that mean anything for JPR? I'm not saying AA deserves credit either, just saying that it's not like JpR is some hidden genius that suddenly deserves all this credit

[Ziggyy108]

Except for the fact AA is the one who got some of these guys on some of the best value contracts in all of baseball.

 

His ability to get guys to extend for wayyy under value is undeniable.

 

So far his draft record IMO has been pretty decent. They've drafted a ton of high school kids so a lot of our farm is in short season. But in his 4 drafts, he has definately missed on some pics but all in all IMO he's done a good job.

 

Free agency, well not much to go off of here. Melky is his biggest signing. Jury is still out.

 

The way he has built this bullpen is unreal. One of the best GM's in the game at buidling a bullpen.

 

Trades. Well this is where it gets iffy so far. Hasnt been great in trades. Still time to turn that around. If the team is in it at the deadline you can almost bet he's gonna be a buyer.

 

The biggest negative for me with AA is handling of the roster. IMO its been really bad the last 2 years with the consttant waiver claims and sooo many scrubs coming and going and complete lack of depth. We've been absolutely descimated with injuries so its tough to get to upset though.

 

All in all im definately PRO AA and absolutely think he should be given a couple years to ride and build around this core as well as see how his past few drafts pan out.

[SAAviour]

When the jays dig themselves out of this hole and make the playoffs you will all be ready to suck AA's koolaid dry again.

And, people complain about the depth he has built, but in the next few weeks to month there is suddenly going to be too many players for the 25 spots and depth will not be an issue...unless we get raped by injuries yet again.

[Chappy]

This is all complete BS. JP was a better GM than many give him credit for but AA hasn't been here long enough to make a valid comparison. At this point I still think AA is the better GM.

[Chappy]

When the jays dig themselves out of this hole and make the playoffs you will all be ready to suck AA's koolaid dry again.

And, people complain about the depth he has built, but in the next few weeks to month there is suddenly going to be too many players for the 25 spots and depth will not be an issue...unless we get raped by injuries yet again.

 

AA had built depth that the vast majority of teams wish they had, but our fan base can't see it at all. Most have their heads too far up their butts.

[TheHurl]

The way he has built this bullpen is unreal. One of the best GM's in the game at buidling a bullpen.

 

That's a really slippery slope. Bullpens can turn around tomorrow and implode all at the same time. It's still an overworked BP and if this pen carries, realistic to it's talent, numbers for the month of June we're still probably a few games under .500. The entire pitching staff both pen and starters have gone from the among the worst GB staff to the best, there is obvious a push for pitchers to keep the ball down but if we are a 50+% GB staff, we aren't going to sustain June's BABIP all year. When the Jays staff comes back to realistic pitching numbers are we more than a .500 team?

 

As for AA my opinions will not change, he built a "winning" team by increasing payroll without thoughts towards what to do next, essentially hoping for a playoff run. He's actually caught a PR break with the team's slow start as coming back from the bottom has brought the buzz back (much more so than if this team were playing a steady .500 all season). On a side note, AA was at the ball tourney I was working at last night watching his nephew play, I wouldn't have said anything to him anyway but I would have loved to have been told, so that I could have trolled him a bit in my head.

[KSaw]

I tend to think that the relievers are pitching like they can. True to their talent is not the same as true to their past performances. Relief pitchers tinker so much because they are the hangers on in baseball. They need to be adding a pitch or perfecting something. This Spring I was raving about Neil Wagner. Clearly there was nothing in his past to make me do such a thing. Finding how to use one's talent seems to be a theme with this bullpen and bravo to those who helped them get to this point and for the most part I mean Walker, Hentgen, Langford and Stanley.

 

Anyway, on point with this AA as GM discussion, I think that come September people around baseball are going to notice something very interesting. Toronto has a specifically designed September ball club. Just look at it. I mean every team brings up a few helpful depth guys and a kid or two when rosters expand. What can AA bring? Another 5-6 arms that can jump right into high pressure key situations. I've never seen such a thing. Tell me how teams score on Toronto in September.

 

Lets just skip the rotation. I mean it could have Happ or Ricky or Wang or the Masked Marvel for all we know. The Pen- you could add Lincoln, Schwimmer, Storey, Weber, Luis Perez, Drabek, Carreno, Farina and more. And on Lincoln, he was great in that 18 inning game and his previous appearance. He only went down as the most tired arm when the club needed pen help for the next day.

[Caper]

As for AA my opinions will not change, he built a "winning" team by increasing payroll without thoughts towards what to do next, essentially hoping for a playoff run.

 

Yes... because as the Dodgers and Angels prove, it's just that easy to build a winning team by simply adding money..... and yes... that's what GM's do.... hope for a playoff run. Nice observation.

[kgm1]

Pretty crazy that it turns out JPR was a better gm than AA is considering the hype AA had a couple of years ago.

 

how can anyone think JPR was even half as good a gm as AA . The guy was an Arrogant, Mouthy son of a bitch who thought he was better than his own scouting dept.

[ElNik2013]

Again, the premise of the article is wrong, no matter what anyone here thinks of AA. As I said before, JPA, Lind and I'll add Cecil were whipping boys for the last 2 years and JPA continues to be, so how can they be considered to be driving the team? They lucked the heck out on Bautista and EE. Billy Beane didn't want to sign EE after claiming him off waivers for goodness sake, give me a break. I think the case can better be made by the fact that JPR hired AA, so there you go.

 

Upper management decided they didn't want to wait for the young pitching to develop so they told baseball operations to go out and address the issues and to NOT strikeout in doing so, so AA went out and overpaid in terms of prospects, that's how I see it. Anyone who thinks that AA and his staff don't know they overpaid in the trades, they're mistaken, they simply had to do it to address the decimated pitching staff. Anyway...

[KSaw]

how can anyone think JPR was even half as good a gm as AA . The guy was an Arrogant, Mouthy son of a bitch who thought he was better than his own scouting dept.

 

What scouting department? Lol.

[Metallijay]

Again, the premise of the article is wrong, no matter what anyone here thinks of AA. As I said before, JPA, Lind and I'll add Cecil were whipping boys for the last 2 years and JPA continues to be, so how can they be considered to be driving the team? They lucked the heck out on Bautista and EE. Billy Beane didn't want to sign EE after claiming him off waivers for goodness sake, give me a break. I think the case can better be made by the fact that JPR hired AA, so there you go.

 

Upper management decided they didn't want to wait for the young pitching to develop so they told baseball operations to go out and address the issues and to NOT strikeout in doing so, so AA went out and overpaid in terms of prospects, that's how I see it. Anyone who thinks that AA and his staff don't know they overpaid in the trades, they're mistaken, they simply had to do it to address the decimated pitching staff. Anyway...

Them being whipping boys 2 years ago is irrelevant now, obviously the talent was there...Also what about bautista? There is SOME truth to the article, guys that were obtained by JP are the big driving force behind this team.

[ElNik2013]

Them being whipping boys 2 years ago is irrelevant now, obviously the talent was there...Also what about bautista? There is SOME truth to the article, guys that were obtained by JP are the big driving force behind this team.

 

 

So go back and look at JPR's teams and tell me the driving forces behind them weren't guys like Halladay, Rios, Wells and others. I'm not a JPR hater by any means, I just think if you apply the same logic, you'll find that every GM inherits pieces from previous management teams. Also, as I said already, AA was hired BY JPR anyway.

[ElNik2013]

So go back and look at JPR's teams and tell me the driving forces behind them weren't guys like Halladay, Rios, Wells and others. I'm not a JPR hater by any means, I just think if you apply the same logic, you'll find that every GM inherits pieces from previous management teams. Also, as I said already, AA was hired BY JPR anyway.

 

 

Oh and JPA is still a whipping boy. Cecil was fighting to make the team out of ST and he was drafted as a starting pitcher. And why wasn't Bautista handed a job right away in 2008 if the front office, including AA, thought he would break out the way he has? Anyway, no big deal, I just think a lot of luck was involved and DM and even Gaston probably deserve more credit for Bautista and EE than anyone in the F/O.

[Deadpool]

Cecil was fighting to make the team out of ST and he was drafted as a starting pitcher.

 

Cecil was drafted as a closer. He was developed as a starter in the minors, but he wasn't a starter in college.

[ElNik2013]

Cecil was drafted as a closer. He was developed as a starter in the minors, but he wasn't a starter in college.

 

 

I stand corrected.

[kgm1]

Cecil was drafted as a closer. He was developed as a starter in the minors, but he wasn't a starter in college.

 

They drafted him with plans to make him a starter .

 

JPR has very little to do with this team . Who do you give credit to philly,s dynasty Ed Wade or Pat Gillick . Go look at the players that were in Philly before Gillick took over

[Deadpool]

Cecil was drafted as a closer. He was developed as a starter in the minors.

 

They drafted him with plans to make him a starter .

 

That's a pretty fine distinction Ken...