So...JPA is good at pitch framing? (MopUpDuty)

[theblujay]

Weird.

http://mopupduty.com/statistically-speaking-j-p-arencibia-one-of-the-best-framing-catchers-in-mlb-061113/

[GD]

This was already posted somewhere. Something about uncorrected pitch f/x data making this a fairly s***** study.

[theblujay]

This was already posted somewhere. Something about uncorrected pitch f/x data making this a fairly s***** study.

 

What do you mean by uncorrected pitch f/x data?

[GD]

What do you mean by uncorrected pitch f/x data?

 

Umpire bias, pitchers like Mark Buehrle, what No49 posted below, etc.

[Abomination]

Also, Jays are second in baseball in balls pitched (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=2&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=11,d)

 

JPA leads in most balls turned into strikes, easy to pile those up when all your pitchers are throwing is balls lol.

 

Is it, or are umps less likely to give borderline pitches if the pitcher doesn't show command?

[dineke]

w/e JPA's stillt he shittiest hitter on the planet so who cares if he can frame pitches.

[GD]

w/e JPA's stillt he shittiest hitter on the planet so who cares if he can frame pitches.

 

+1, pitch framing alone won't salvage this shitshow.

[Abomination]

That's true. But there's also the effect of the strike zone expanding in hitters' counts. Umps will call a larger strike zone than the pitch f/x one in counts such as 3-1, and Jays pitchers get in a lot of those.

 

I wonder if that holds, whether the top teams in 3-0 and 3-1 counts also have catchers leading in framing (on average).

[Boxcar]

Weird.

http://mopupduty.com/statistically-speaking-j-p-arencibia-one-of-the-best-framing-catchers-in-mlb-061113/

 

But you can actually see, visually, that JPA is awful at framing pitches. His glove moves a lot and he gets crossed up very often. No idea how this info can be accurate.

[Nox]

But you can actually see, visually, that JPA is awful at framing pitches. His glove moves a lot and he gets crossed up very often. No idea how this info can be accurate.

 

Wouldn't read much into it. Their method is very unclear and the sample is small.

 

Even if we do take these numbers at face value, our best numerical estimate of JPA's framing true talent lies somewhere between not good and very bad.

[magits]

Weird.

http://mopupduty.com/statistically-speaking-j-p-arencibia-one-of-the-best-framing-catchers-in-mlb-061113/

 

Uh oh... the fan-boys aren't gonna like this... They had already reached their comfortable conclusion!

[magits]

Is it just some fanboys who hate on JPA? I think everyone would agree that he's a terrible player, except only the most casual RBI-loving fans.

 

Well, if we act under the assumption that this source is correct, and that JPA's pitch framing is as good as Jose Molina, then there will be some major cognitive dissonance going on with half of this board. I love it.

[GD]

Well, if we act under the assumption that this source is correct, and that JPA's pitch framing is as good as Jose Molina, then there will be some major cognitive dissonance going on with half of this board. I love it.

 

Why would we act under the assumption that this source is correct when it fairly obviously isn't?

 

Also, his pitching framing only improves his value marginally.

[Boxcar]

Well, if we act under the assumption that this source is correct, and that JPA's pitch framing is as good as Jose Molina, then there will be some major cognitive dissonance going on with half of this board. I love it.

 

Do you have eyes? No one cares, JPA is still awful and an insufferable douche. This doesn't change anyone's opinion on the matter.

[Nox]

Well, if we act under the assumption that this source is correct, and that JPA's pitch framing is as good as Jose Molina

 

Put the numbers down. They're dangerous in your hands.

[magits]

Do you have eyes? No one cares, JPA is still awful and an insufferable douche. This doesn't change anyone's opinion on the matter.

 

It begins.

[GD]

It begins.

 

And ends with the realization that Molina-esque framing numbers would probably only make him a slightly below league average catcher.

[magits]

And ends with the realization that Molina-esque framing numbers would probably only make him a slightly below league average catcher.

 

And much better than Jose Molina himself, who's acquisition made half the board ready to suck Andrew Friedman off.

[GD]

And much better than Jose Molina himself, who's acquisition made half the board ready to suck Andrew Friedman off.

 

But he's not better than Molina. I don't understand why you're ignoring that the study is flawed.

[GD]

It's flawed because it's not a study. It's a non-normalized number that is related to pitch framing.

 

It's too late for proper wording haha. Although this does help my point. It's really pretty meaningless to JPA's pitch framing.

[TheHurl]

one thing that should be noted here is that through raw data (and i can't find the SPN’s TruMedia Pitch F/X scouting service available...but I haven't really looked all that hard) is that JPA still gives away a lot of strikes. It's possible that he's improved framing balls (his numbers last year were -57 on this system and I think it was -88 on the raw data in the fast report, so lets see if it's an improvement that can stay and hopefully someone can work with this data for a better conclusion) ...but his downward swat causes a shitload of low in the zone pitches to be called balls. Then of course this causes pitchers to pitch up in the zone...and well Jays pitchers are among the league leaders in HR's given up. Not blaming JPA for the Jays pitching issues here, just saying that it is the tendency.

[Abomination]

Out of curiosity, where did Molina rank in pitch framing so far this year?

[GD]

Out of curiosity, where did Molina rank in pitch framing so far this year?

 

In this post? 4th, which is a good sign that it's BS

[Boxcar]

But he's not better than Molina. I don't understand why you're ignoring that the study is flawed.

 

I do, because it suits him at this moment. As soon as a study says otherwise, he'll disappear.

 

Let him enjoy this, watching the fanboys squirm under the weight of this impenetrable study. I can't imagine anything more important in life.

[JFD]

Uh oh... the fan-boys aren't gonna like this... They had already reached their comfortable conclusion!

 

apparently you don't know what a fanboy is

[TheHurl]

But he's not better than Molina. I don't understand why you're ignoring that the study is flawed.

 

again just based on raw data, Molina is actually ahead of his 2011 numbers. It's very possible that JPA has improved to date...small sample size though.

[AdamGreenwood]

LOL.

 

Who could have predicted that the pitch framing could be so inconsistent from year to year?

Oh yeah. Me.

 

Hilarious how you JPA haters all jumped on the report as the word of God when it came out, but now that there's a report actually suggesting JPA is good at pitch framing, you're tripping all over yourselves to dismiss it.

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-bluejays&tid=88183

[Caper]

Is it just some fanboys who hate on JPA? I think everyone would agree that he's a terrible player, except only the most casual RBI-loving fans.

 

I would like to see him genuinely attempt to change his plate approach. Almost looks like he has vision problems. He can actually get himself in decent hitters counts. There is still some potential there IMO... But it's hard to see that changing anytime soon.

[Caper]

again just based on raw data, Molina is actually ahead of his 2011 numbers. It's very possible that JPA has improved to date...small sample size though.

 

I've been trying to make JPA bad at everything... but just watching him he doesn't seem to be that bad at pitch framing... I would have guessed mid pack.. not near the top. I do see that downward swipe... and he doesn't set the best target... but he's also not terrible.

[GD]

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-bluejays&tid=88183

 

You know what? You're right. I think we all owe you a huge apology, Greenwood. You're obviously right about this 100% and you're pretty much always right. #Greenwoodformayor #welcomeoursaviour