Carlos Danger

Just as a side.. Dusty Baker was considered a horrible playoff manager and had not won the big games in the playoffs until he came to Houston.. Who probably won despite him..

Or maybe something happened with the Jay's offensive scheme this year that took Varsho (and a bunch of others) from a decent hitter in the minors and with AZ to an 8th or 9th hole hitter. My point being, on another team, maybe he would have thrived with the bat or stayed what he had been.

I saw this somewhere else but LOL. Atkins- Manoah is very motivated Poster- Wish he was motivated to report to Buffalo. True!

My bad...

Or this might have helped AA's decision if you want to believe it.. Apparently confirmed by other media members as well. Source: In their 1st & only meeting, new Jays prez Mark Shapiro scolded Alex Anthopolous & staff for trading so many top prospects this yr — Rick Westhead (@rwesthead) October 29, 2015

Well, I for one had been converted to an Atkins fan to start the season. I was harping about Bassitt and Varsho in the off season thread and sure enough, he goes out and gets them. I was bitching about run prevention and the pen, and sure enough, he goes out and strengthens all. I loved the Merrifield trade the season prior and the Belt signing. I was also really happy with JS being made full time and Mattingly coming onboard. I didn't think we had enough SP depth and probably didn't if we didn't get very lucky and have great SP health. I also saw a GM who was aware of the offensive issues at the deadline and didn't address it properly. The offensive issue were prevalent in April and were consistent all the way through the end of July. Roster construction that has Biggio hitting 5th in a playoff game is problematic. The fact they were not able to figure out this informational flow process change for the hitters after 162 plus 2 is not acceptable for me. The fact that Shapiro and Atkins have been here almost 7 years and zero division winners, zero playoff wins not counting 2016 which was not a season Atkins can take full credit for. We finished 3rd in our division. The Red Sox and Yankees have the ability to get good very fast. We have no substantial reinforcements and a team that was very bad at scoring runs especially with RISP and we broached the luxury tax. The Anthony Bass situation was not handled well and f***ed up our pen for a few weeks after. Then the whole Berrios thing.... I hadn't read one single article when the presser was over and my first thought and apparently thousands!! Of others based on the time stamps, was that Ross threw JS under the bus. That is where I went from on sliding off the fence to tearing down the fence... Good leaders take accountability and even jump on a few grenades for their Team or company. Ross took the grenade and threw it back into JS's office.

That is what I thought. The poster was saying the O's were one game away from playoff defeat or whatever...

Anyone have access to the Toronto Star - Rosie Di Manno article about Shapiro. It is behind a pay wall. Thanks

It's best out of 3 in the ALDS?

To try and give you a quick answer on the above. I expect that when something is not working or there is a screwup or you are not achieving results, that you come up with corrective action. You can deep dive, root cause analysis, ask for more tools or support, make a case for more $$ or headcount, make personnel changes with *justification, but present a corrective action, execute and provide results. *If you choose to make a personnel change, I want to make sure you set that employee up for success and gave them the tools they needed to prosper and it was a performance issue despite of all that. However, if you as the Head of a Department have not taken appropriate corrective actions, not set your Teams up for success and choose to blame subordinates for your failures, that to me becomes an integrity/personality trait I have a hard time getting past. I saw JS fall on the sword after game 2 and talk about organizational approach. I truly thought that today, we would see the same corporate dribble we have seen the last 6,7 years and just talk about the org as a whole and processes etc, basically put us to sleep in their Canadian Thanksgiving weekend press conference (eye roll). OR, to hear Ross say that at the end of the day he is the GM and he is accountable. I did not expect and was honestly shocked for Ross to deflect from the organizational processes and say it was John. The loyalty and professionalism is not flowing both ways between JS and Atkins IMO when you say that. Atkins didn't have to answer like that. He could have deflected like he has for the past 6 years and say organizational decision. He sold JS down the river and demonstrated his beta male core by not saying at the end of the day I am responsible. (Since he can't say Shapiro really is).

It seems you are under the impression that Shapiro is not very much involved in the player and personnel side of the org and just working on things like stadium renos. I have never believed that with Shapiro. Unlike Beeston, Shapiro was a GM for so many years. AA knew this and that is why he left. Reinforced when David Sampson former CEO and President of the Marlins was on the radio other day and stated (Hyperbole paraphrase) "You are smoking crack if you don't think Shapiro specifically and guys like Kenny Williams - CWS are not involved in day to day player/field baseball decisions operations".

Atkins stated the following correct? 1. Wasn't involved in the pre-game planning, wasn't in the room. 2. John's decision 3. Saw Kikuchi was warming, but was just as surprised as anyone when Berrios was pulled when he was. That is three statements that defer the decision from the FO direct to the manager. This would mean someone is lying or twisting facts based on the statements of insiders about JS's comments to players and players comments to JS. As well as Berrio's comments and the reaction of JS and Pete Walker when it went down. Regardless, we have a very disjointed internal, and I would wager now awkward dynamic on the team and the results on the field are unsat. Changes at the manager level or above need to be made. I fired a guy who ran one of our departments in Mexico after a number of incidents occurred over a period of time. The straw that broke the camels back is when he tried to blame it on subordinate employees and not take accountability. At that point it became an integrity issue and loss of confidence on my part as to his ability to function as an effective manager and leader. It might not have been MLB. However, the same leadership principals apply.

To this point - The game was 0-0 when the decision was made, it was 2-0 after. Second- JS went out of his way in a very difficult post game conference to make it clear these are organizational decisions not pointing specifically at Ross nor saying if he felt he didn’t have autonomy. Ross flat out says John’s decision. There are ways of setting conditions for your subordinates to believe you want a course of action and if you don’t go that route it will be unsat vs having a boss telling you to do a specific action directly.

What he did was threw his manger under the bus, which will be very problematic going fwd within the Blue Jays org. What he also did not do is take accountability and state that at the end of the day Ross sets conditions and is responsible for decisions made and the result. I would be fnnnnn fuming if I were JS.

In 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire". Guys like you will always be reliving their glory days.

That would be a lot of blowing. Blowing to get the team, then blowing the team and finishing in the bottom rung.. Course, you have always been a power bottom.

As someone who is in a management position at a major company and was also in the military I just saw infuriating piss poor leadership and accountability. Ross just threw John under the boss after John has gone out of his way to protect the FO, took zero accountability. Ross also exposed the team’s process is so inflexible that issues that were glaring in April, May, June are not able to be identified and fixed in a 162 plus two game season, but need to be fixed by process, not personnel in the off season. Seriously f*** off. I had been on the fence up until a week or so ago, but f*** off!

We were supposed to win the division and make the World Series and have a serious chance to win it. Yea we backed into the playoffs, which got us nothing. Just making the playoffs with all these WC they added should not be an acceptable result for the fanbase and FO. We came third in our division.

Did they get rid of the Sunshine girl?? What do people read? That toilet paper the Toronto Star?

Those of you who thinks there is some Chinese wall between Shapiro and Atkins are incorrect. Shapiro needs to fire himself if he fires Atkins since Shapiro is very much involved in baseball decisions. If you have a guy around just for stadium and facilities improvements you could hire a design architect and a gate revenue consultant.

I read it also. The Dodgers are thinking of taking advantage of his bat at 3b or LF I believe it was. The Dodgers have other catchers coming up or sign one I guess.. It all depends what happens in FA. Nothing locked in stone, just depends on FA and player options.

Zavala is actually good.. Help them get under the luxury tax and you could probably get more or a bonafide MLB player...

On Saturday... Probably on a weekend for a reason...

There is no Atkins. It is Shapiro and Atkins. Shapiro would need to fire himself.

How did that decision work out for the Rays? Did you watch the video with him and C.C Sabathia in the same link?