Brownie19

Catching prospects seem to 'bust' more than most positions. We have 2 proven MLB catchers in Jano and Kirk. Moreno was the #1 prospect in baseball (for a short period - err maybe still is according to some), yet it seems to me like he's a f***ton riskier than other #1 prospects in baseball like Rutschman, Franco, Vlad, Witt Jr., etc. even Corbin Carroll. I want all those players over Moreno in a heartbeat. Moreno seems like a Keibert Ruiz type and I just don't think he or Ruiz will ever have the same impact at the ML level that those other #1 prospects will. If someone thinks Moreno is in that top category with other #1 prospects in baseball, then I'd listen to what they have to offer. Alek Thomas + stud young SPer would be a really solid fit IMO.

The reality is managers make good and poor decisions regularly. Sometimes they aren't exposed because of various factors and other times they are. If Mayza gets Santana out, the Jays win and post game, JS says they felt Santana could do more 'major' damage hitting left handed, but were OK giving up a run or 2 in that situation (given they were up 8-1) then people would have nodded and said - oh yeah, good call - what a smart guy this JS is. But of course, the absolute worse f***ing outcome possible happened (which probably had what, a 5% chance of happening?) and now we're all here complaining that it was the stupidest decision ever made, even though Mayza probably gets Santana out (let alone he gives up a hit) in that situation, what, 75% of the time? Here's another example - JS starts Espinal in Game 2. If Espinal goes 0-4 with that error, we should all be questioning why the f*** he started a slap dick hitter coming off the DL in an elimination game when he didn't get 1 rep at the major league level before returning. But of course Espinal goes 2-4 so absolutely nobody is questioning that move right now (nor giving him any credit for that ballsy move). And god knows if the left Merrifield in LF and he didn't get to that fly ball down the line (that Tapia didn't get to either) then people are complaining he didn't put JBJ in the game for defense. That's the world a manager lives in.

The more I think of it, the more I like the idea of Moreno for Thomas + one of Arizona's young, ready starters. Fills 2 needs, while we remain stacked at C with Jano/Kirk.

This is like the 5th time you've mentioned Shelby Miller in the past couple of days. Is he your brother or something? He threw 4 innings this year (yes with great results), but he hasn't pitched well (or much) since 2015 man. These are the types of lottery tickets that could pay off and I'm all for bringing him in as a non-roster invite to spring training, but there's no way you give that man a guaranteed contract...

Brandon League? He had a f***ton of movement on his fastball. It was a super sinker, but never induced the swing and miss you would have expected.

Oh - yes, Frasor started back in A and A+ ball. LA moved him to the pen before he came to TO. Looks like they converted League to the pen in AA ball also. Sorry, the FG page didn't show much for these 2. Neither lasted that long as a starter though.

He's been charged with aggravated assault. And you just know that camera man is licking his chops at his impending payday from this incident.

That's actually not what jaysblue and I are talking about at all. I misinterpreted what he was originally saying, which was that AA/JPR seemed to be better at turning failed starters into good bullpen arms (I thought he just meant they were better at finding quality bullpen arms). His list wasn't littered with tons of guys you'd want pitching in the 8th inning of a playoff game either. That said - Bass has a fantastic year. 1.54 ERA, 1.3 WAR, 9+ K/9. The Yankees were using Wandy Peralta in the 8th and 9th last night to close out the win. Phillies used Eflin close out Game 1. LA used Graterol in the 8th last night. You think they're way better than Bass?

For sure. The HOF accepts lots of douchebags. Could Machado become the BIGGEST douchebag in the HOF is the real question.

Oh - well you have me confused because guys like Frasor and League never started. Hudson, Dolis, Bass, Phelps and Clippard are all failed starters for what it's worth. As Krylian pointed out - most relivers are unless they get gimmick guys like Joe Smith and Cimber.

All good questions. I mean Thomas has hit at every level in the minors without any major red flags and has the 2nd round pedigree behind him. Solid BB%, low K%, increasing ISO. I don't think his value collapses due to some initial struggles as a 22 year old. Similarly, Moreno actually climbed prospect rankings (albeit mainly because others graduated) despite the injury and the limp bat he showed in the minors. It's an interesting concept. I'd probably rather move Jansen, but I doubt he hold this type of value given the lack of remaining control. If we're moving Kirk, I think we get a better package.

I don't recall Tapia being put in as a defensive replacement regularly during the season (perhaps I'm mis-remembering). I agree he got too many starts and PA's, but that's on Atkins as there weren't really any options available. And to be fair, he did have stretches were he was really productive with the bat (June/July the most obvious), which obviously earned him some of that playing time (where you could deal with the fact his defense sucked).

Sorry man - but you referred to the latin guys in the 'barrio' (which refers to a spanish speaking group) and then listed off 3 white guys who you said they probably don't like that either. I'm certainly not one to pull out the race card, but that seemed too obvious. And I'm not even sure it's true. I'm pretty sure Bo, Springer, Manoah, etc. all hang out with that group too. Could that group be more inclusive? I mean - I guess? As you pointed out, you'll always have cliques. Could the group be more serious? I'm sure they could, but I'm sure there are studies that show there are performance advantages to 'staying loose' and not being super serious the whole time. I don't know what the right answer is. Maybe they'll look at the remaining teams in the playoffs and notice none of them have rituals or gimmicks after home runs (did SD do away with that chain?) and decide that's all the evidence they need to can it.

what the f*** is happening in that picture? obviously taking out the seats, but that looks bizarre.

I mean - he could have used JBJ instead of Tapia as a defensive replacement. He had a much better defender available to him, so I think that one's on JS.

Sorry man, but I can make a very similar list of guys who were good out of the pen from the Shatkins era. I guess you're listing Romano under the AA era because he was drafted in 2013? He certainly didn't pitch for the Jays until well after the end of the AA era though, so I'll leave him (and Mayza) out? Giles Seunghwan Oh Joe Smith Dominic Leone Cimber Garcia Bass Phelps Dolis D. Hudson Clippard These guys all gave up quality innings out of the pen for at least 1 season.

Patrick Corbin too....he's never been the same, but he's got the ring and the $$$.

I can't imagine this is an option.

FWIW - my buddy spoke with Tinnish after the game (we've known him for years). He said he really disagreed with the decision to bring Mayza in. Now Tinnish may not have a say in it and may not be at the FO table that's making that decision. Outside of that, he said the players simply didn't execute and there were several unlucky plays that went against the Jays late.

be a huge douche bag? yes, yes he could

Arizona has several interesting players. Thomas, Varsho (even K.Marte). If they want a catcher, than that seems like a good partner. Adding a legit CFer and pushing Springer to RF and Gurriel into the 4th OFer position would be a really nice upgrade and use of our surplus of catchers IMO. We have enough versatility to allow Gurriel to be our 4th OFer. Would Moreno alone fetch a package of say Thomas with one of Jameson, Nelson, Pfaadt or Walston?

and he wears pearl necklaces instead that immature HR jacket. Joc is a consummate professional

You mean more guys like Trevor Richards?

So the whites don't like the latino's? Got it. It's not like they have massive cultural differences or anything. I wonder what George Springer thinks of the culture. He's the "vetrin presents" on this team who's been front and center on a sustained winner who won the WS. He seems to be right in the thick of it on the bench having fun with the rest of the team. If he was speaking out about the culture or separating himself from the "barrio" then I'd be worried. The reality is this team wasn't going to go past Round 2 anyway. They simply didn't have the horses to do it when Berrios had an awful year, Vlad had a down year and they got nothing out of Nate Pearson or Moreno.

Do we know whether he pulled Merrifield for defensive purposes, or because Merrifield was injured after taking that pitch to the bean?