Brownie19

I was just using the Braves and AA as an example of how I don't hold the playoff success (or lack there of) against the GM. I don't think fans should look at AA and say he failed this year at all, nor should it tarnish his "record" as a GM. If they win 90-100 games for the next 4 years, making the playoffs each year, but never win another playoff game - I'd feel the same way. The 2023 AA constructed team was MUCH better than the 2021 team that won the WS. It's not even close. Of course the longer your track record, the better. Perhaps I should have used the Mike Elias and the O's instead of AA and the Braves. He has 0 playoff success on his resume. IMO, it's not Mike Elias's fault that the O's lost in the playoffs this year. Elias was just named Executive of the Year - and rightfully so. Mike Hazen doesn't deserve that award because the Dbacks went MUCH further than the O's in the playoffs. The playoffs are a crap shoot. You want a GM that gets your team to the dance as often as possible. I'm perhaps a bit too fixated on this and am doing a poor job of "proving my point". We can probably move on eh?

The Marlins deal obviously? The Tulo deal?

If you believe playoff wins are a major factor in the success of GM (and the team's season), then we'll agree to disagree. I think judging the performance of the GM on the team's win/loss record in a 3 or 5 game series is silly. Just like it would be stupid to say "Bichette chokes in the playoffs and isn't clutch" because he goes 3 for 12 in a wild card round (hypothetical).

Apparently he averages 15 on...and off the court.

I think the vast majority of us would love to see Gibby come back for a 3rd time regardless of how our season goes.

I literally said that AA is a better GM than Atkins. But 95% of my belief in that statement is due to their success in the regular season and the position he's put that team in to win over the long term. 5% is due to their playoff success. My point is that both are good GM's and that using playoff wins as a major factor in determining the success of the GM is stupid. That's something I firmly believe. I don't think AA's success is tarnished one bit because his 104 win team only won 1 playoff game this year (and even that win was a f***ing miracle). If AA wins 90-100 games and makes the playoffs every year for 4 more seasons - but never wins another playoff game, I'd still consider him to be a great GM. Would you?

Stop using 7 or 8 years. Shatkins wasn't going to win in 2017-2019 after AA left the team in shambles. AA won the world series with an 88 win team that climbed on the back of Joc Pederson, Jorge Soler, Eddie f***ing Roserio and some pearls. It was half the team that the 2023 team is. AA isn't a genius for winning the WS in 2021, nor is he a bum for only winning 1 playoff game this year and not winning a round. The playoffs are a crapshoot. Good GM's get their teams into the playoffs as often as they can (and obviously with the best team they can). AA is a good GM because he's gotten the Braves to the playoffs 4 straight seasons and there's no sign of their window closing. Atkins was 1 win away from doing the exact same thing and we're in a good position to do it for at least another 2 seasons. Shatkins promised a sustained winner. Making the playoffs 3 the last 4 seasons (after rebuilding the mess AA left) is already good. If we do that another 2 season, will fans appreciate that going to the playoffs in 5 of 6 seasons is a sustained winner? Or will it always be tied to the results in playoffs? If it's the later, I sorry, but I think that's a flawed view. And yes - I do believe AA is a much better GM than Atkins.

I mean, 4 of the top 6 payrolls didn't make the playoffs. The 2022 Phillies had a payroll of $244M, but only won 87 games.....but wait, they made the WS - so was that season impressive?

I have a couple of different views on this. 1. Do you think AA should be on the hotseat because the team didn't win in the playoffs? Are you holding their failure in the playoffs against AA at all when you consider the job he did this year? 2. Obviously the players are going to feel as though their season was a failure because they are directly involved and often too close to see it clearly. Do I think players blame AA for failing to put them in a position to success? I do not - not one bit. Objectively, they were a 104 win team that that lost in a short 5 game series where a ton of randomness is involved. I think it's moronic to discard the success they had over the 162 game season and call the season a waste because they didn't win the crapshoot that is the MLB playoffs. There are so many factors that are outside of the control of the organization and players that you can't ignore.

You, and others continue to harp on playoff wins. Do you believe the Diamondbacks had a more successful year than the Braves because they made the division championship? FWIW - AA did empty the system. He created a 2 year window for the Jays. We're currently in the midst of a 4 year window that certainly seems to be open for at least another 2 years. It is very disappointing that we don't have any playoff wins during that period, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. Answer this - if the Jays advanced to the 2022 WS like the Phillies (87 win team) and the 2023 ALCS like the Dbacks (84 win team) the past 2 season - would you suddenly be praising Atkins?

I'll be interested to see what he produces the next few years. M's obviously don't believe in him. He's been an above average bat in 1 of the past 4 years. A seemingly random improvement defensively buoyed his WAR up last year.

Oh wow - I haven't seen that yet. Big blow for OKC

To be fair, you're probably right. For all we know, Teo worked independently and developed 100% on his own. Maybe he went to a hitting specialist lab (driveline equivalent) during the offseason and the Jays deserve no credit. Then again, we don't know which players are even willing to accept help from the organization. There are certainly ones who go on their own path and do what they want in the offseason (and during the season). Easy to say the organization has to do a better job of engaging them and helping them see the value of training with the team, in their facility, with their staff - but not everyone will. And things will change in the players lives (family, kids, cocaine, whores) that may change a players work habits. Pretty tough for standard fans to have any strong opinion on whether the Jays are doing a good job with development or not as there are so many different factors involved. The new state of the art facility has to help, but it will take more than a couple of years to see the results. I think they deserve a lot of kudos for making that happen. As for the results at the ML level - let's be honest, we're in a winning window right now and have been selling prospects to help the big club. This isn't rocket science. That said, we do have a lot of home grown talent on the roster. I think some fans have unrealistic expectations.

I mean obviously it takes 2 to tango bruh.

Can we point out that they traded for Teo and then developed him in to an all-star player?

I think you have trades too low man. He's had some good hits along the way. Chapman, Teo, Swanson/Macko, Berrios, Whit, Matz, Richards/Francis, Cimber, Giles, Robbie Ray. The biggest "miss" is obviously Varsho and there's 70 pages of discussion on that. Was his next biggest "miss" trading for Mitch White? That can't be considered that bad guys. Best argument is he gave up a lot of "value" to get Berrios and then had to pay them a s*** ton of money, but the value of the guys he traded plummeted. I might put trades over drafting?

I was going to ask you to elaborate on this and provide some receipts, but on second thought - just don't. Thanks.

for Zavala and Carlos Vargas...ie, spare parts. That's bizarre.

Did the other 1/3 of the league sign Turner, Boogy, Correa and Swanson last year? Seems to me there's still a lot of interest in locking up the elite SS's. You may favor some of those players skills over Bo's, but Bo is right up there with those guys.

I'm not sure putting the 4th line enforcer on the ice more often is going to help with that. You need real players who are tough/gritty to change that. Domi and Bertuzzi kind of fill that need. Reaves is a joke.

I could see that. Let's just get him without trading Bo though.

how is Reaves a playoff acquisition? Aren't useless enforcers typically left off the playoff roster? I thought he was a moronic signing. It's not 1996. I didn't get Klingberg either. Bertuzzi and Domi are fine. Obviously their scoring will go down on a team like the Leafs who already have the high end guys to score. They both just need to be the gritty, dirty work guys.

Is that you making that up? or is that what's being reported? Hoerner is a good player, but that would hurt the offense even more and he only has 1 more year of control. Not sure Morel moves the needle enough. Doesn't seem like he plays any defensive position very well. Suzuki and Happ are good fits for LF though.

sauce?

There's an interesting name. Completely fell off a cliff after some incredible seasons in 2020 and 2021. I believe he's a dick and a bad teammate and is probably a DH only guy now. Has he worked his way out of baseball?