glory

I actually feel Edwin will end up staying long term when all is said and done. He's two years younger than Bautista, but he's strictly a DH. The market for him will be different. Only a handful of teams would be willing to give a DH in his mid-30's the type of money he wants. I think this has a chance to end up like Alex Gordon where EE tests the market but ends up coming back for a more reasonable than expected contract. The Red Sox are the main threat but they may have to keep DH open for Hanley or Pablo. I don't mind moving on from Edwin but if the deal is reasonable, then go for it.

I never said I liked the Bruce deal. I'm just saying he has a better track record and there's more reason to believe he's a "buy low" candidate than someone like Brown who is a lottery ticket at best. They acquired Bruce to start in LF. They acquired Brown as minor league depth. Now you can argue there's better ways to spend the money, and I'd agree, but the only similarity between those two is that they've been bad the past two seasons. One is clearly the better player than the other, and you can at least argue that one of them (Bruce) has the potential to bounce back offensively based on some of his offensive ratios last season. Frankly, if the Jays were paying ~$10m (the difference between Saunders/Bruce) plus giving up a prospect in that deal, then it's probably a good thing it fell through, but we don't know how the deal broke down financially and who the prospect was, so it's a mystery for now.

Reddick was the guy I was looking at as well. Might be a bit undervalued in a FA class with Bautista, Cespedes, and Gomez, though I'm sure it will still cost a bit to get him.

Yep, which is why what Keith Law said is correct. Shapiro has no pressure now. Everyone knows Bautista's price is ridiculous, and it basically makes moving on from him that much easier for the FO.

Signing Bautista prior to 2016 would be foolish. A lot can happen in a season. Waiting it out is the best option, even if it means watching him leave.

Lol what I have been ignoring? You're saying Brown is the equivalent of Bruce. I'm saying that's patently false. The salaries are irrelevant as far as what I'm talking about. Talent wise, Bruce is a better player with a much better history. One is a bounce back candidate, and the other has to be fixed by hitting coaches (a project at best, minor league filler at worst). That's all I'm arguing. Brown is not a replacement for Bruce.

Damn, I agree with Keith Law. Hate when that happens.

Bruce's BB%, Iso, hard%, gb%, etc, in 2015 was right in line with his percentages when he was good. He actually struck out less in 2015 than when he was good, as well. It's not like his ratios took a nose dive. His BABIP was on the low end. There's a chance his bat could rebound. He was a very good player at one point so there's history to suggest it's possible. Brown is the opposite. He's never been a good player save for one season in 2013 and even that never came close to Bruce's peak. He's a reclamation project without any question. The org will have to fix him. Bruce might require tweaking as well, but he would be a buy low option. There's a difference, which is why one involved giving up assets and the other was a minor league deal. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of either one of them, but they are not the same player.

Keeping a prospect (whoever it was) and saving money by signing Brown instead of trading for Bruce is fine. However, Bruce is far more likely a bounce back candidate than Brown is. The floor is better with Bruce and the ceiling likely is as well, though I agree both sucking is likely as well. My point is, Brown will have to be fixed, while Bruce looked a bit unlucky last year and could conceivably bounce back with the bat.

We have to ignore Brown's history. Unlike Bruce who at least had really good seasons before, anything Brown is expected to provide would have to come from him being tweaked or fixed by the org. Otherwise he serves no real value.

This wouldn't be news if Bautista didn't bring it up. He's 100% responsible and I don't even know how that's debatable. The rant he went on a few days ago was unnecessary and unprofessional. No one is angry at him for wanting to get paid. That's fine. But acting the way he acted was wrong.

Good move. Brown has been bad but it's a minor league deal and he might be someone that is fixable. Get Donaldson's hitting coach on the line.

Those "real fans" would disappear if the Jays signed Bautista and the team fell off. Attendance didn't change with Clemens, Delgado, Halladay, etc. Just build a consistent winner and those "real fans" won't care who is playing as long as they can pay money to pelt trash on the field in October.

The Cardinals lost Pujols and didn't miss a beat. That's what the Jays should be striving for. The moment you let past performance dictate future value is when you get into a lot of trouble. If Bautista was five years younger then it would be different but at age 36-40, I really don't care what he did from 29-35. It's going to be a whole different performance.

He knows that Shapiro/Atkins are limited in what they can do. Rogers will have to sign off on the type of contract he wants, which is why he directed his venom at them. At least that's the impression he's giving.

At least we got to see the twilight of Reyes, Buehrle, Dickey, and soon Tulo out of it.

He would be free of any draft pick compensation if he was traded mid-season, so I don't think he would mind.

Yeah, at least the fan base knows this will be his last season in Toronto so far in advance that they can prepare for it.

So on top of making this a story/distraction in February when all he had to do was keep quiet, he also is apparently asking for one of the biggest contracts in history from an AAV standpoint. He was also so vague about the details of the 'take it or leave it' contract, that he tried to make his employer look bad/cheap in the process to a fan base that is already largely against the ownership group. Now this s*** comes out, which might just be Rogers retaliating by making Bautista look like a delusional star valuing money over team/loyalty/whatever, but now Rosenthal is confirming it (I trust him more than any other reporter). You know how this could have been avoided? Do what Ross Atkins did when he took to the media yesterday. Say nothing. Keep it in house. That would have upset one of the posters here (forgot his username) who wants all private matters to be discussed freely in public, but in reality, no one would have been talking about this if Bautista just said "I'm not going to talk about this so stop asking", or something along those lines. On top of that, with his 10/5 rights, he can't be traded unless he approves, and the Jays don't benefit by trading him unless they get someone who can help their 2016 window, plus provide value beyond 2016. The only guy like that I can think of is Puig if the Dodgers were willing to sell low on account of his high douche bag credentials, but trading Bats for prospects would kill off a season that is there for the taking while not guaranteeing anything beyond 2016 either. Oh well. Hope for the best in 2016, wish Bautista well on his future club in 2017, and move on.

I don't see any upside at all for paying Bautista $25-30M a year from 36 to 40. You'd be paying for his decline, and any goodwill the org would get for keeping one of their stars and having him retire as a Jay will be long forgotten when he's a 1 WAR DH in the final couple of years. Bautista isn't going to defy age. Maybe he will age better than the norm, but he will age. He will decline. He will get more bumps and bruises. That's just what happens to athletes in their late-30's.

Yeah, what he did yesterday was a dick head move right before the start of ST, not to mention unprofessional with him calling out ownership for no reason. Instead of talking about baseball, we are discussing this s***. He had to have done this on purpose, because he seems like a smart guy. Not sure what the motive is, though. If anything, taking shots at Rogers is only going to make them turn the media against him, and it will be a circus all year. Just a stupid, unnecessary move on his part. It's not like the Jays can trade him either since, aside from the 10/5 rights, he presents too much value on their win curve. He'd have to be moved for a comparable talent + have to agree to the swap, one being very unlikely and the other being semi-unlikely. Just have to hope he has a monster year and then take the comp pick.

That's the way I see it. They obviously don't feel 2014-15 is reflective of his talent going forward. In that case, if they feel his bat is fixable, and it won't take much to get him, then that's their reasoning. Potentially a buy low with a team option attached. What it would have cost to get him is the question, and something it looks like we may never find out.

Don't be silly. He'd be the fourth outfielder.

If the hold up is a "B level" prospect, and not Saunders or money, then there's probably a shot.

Yep, and Rogers will now turn the media against Jose. This was very avoidable.