BigCecil

That happens sometimes when you cant convert on verge of a big inning and our starter walks the 8 to lead off the next inning after we just scored. Lets hope Berrios can respond this inning.

He has a hard time finishing lefties. That last AB hurt. Need a DP here. Too many pitches up. Argh

Welcome back Buck. Some sweet PAs and approaches tonight so far. Love to see it.

Lol. Ya. But he was a nasty wild thing with 14K/9 at least. I think it's fair that 2019 was an exception since 14/15. Basically they made the case if your starters are really good you can get by with at least a hot if not great pen. Backed up by decent offence.

Maybe. Doolittle Hudson and Rainey were all hot if not filthy, at least at the right time. Integral to getting there and the outcome. Rainey has always had plus K numbers. In '19 his avg FB was 98. Not nothing. They really did lean on their rotation - Scherzer and Strasburg. Our SP's aren't in that class, although on a given day they can be.

Thor is no more.

We won't. Even if we add 2 arms. But it will help a lot. We have good SP if it all shows up. Seems like since 2014 WS when Herrera emerged, along with others, the teams going deep in the playoffs have all ridden hot pens with a large degree of filth. SF used a starter in part, who was hot, in that role in '14. Who has gone deep without that kind of pen since? Honest question. I can't remember one.

Generally agree but back end depth SP like Quintana, who can only help you if they are on every 5th day, has limited value. The pen will play more often in the run and in the playoffs so for me they are the priority. Would love Laureano as a 4th. Tapia will regress. He has been hot but chase rate will catch up to him. Even after a sustained heater his Savante page is still Tapia and his D is pretty brutal for a guy who needs to be able to go get it. So much fanfare over a lost fly ball GS ITP HR. Ramon would make Zimmer and Tapia both redundant except we lose a bit of speed off the bench in Zimmer. Regardless. I'm still all in for Soto lol...there is nothing around the edges Atkins can do that would have more impact than him for 3 playoff pushes.

Concerning revelations/accusations/admissions. I've listened to numerous Dante Bichette interviews. He was on Brett Boone pod last week. Lots of other interviews making it sound like he talks to Bo regularly. Seems surreal. I didn't have a Brady Bunch Dad or family either but its complex and different siblings have dramatically different views and experiences. Wrong is wrong but there are so many layers, complexities and dynamics to families. I'm torn between I'd like to see Dante and Bo address this head on, with this is family business and we all should all stay out of it. Dante doesn't work for the Jays anymore.

lol. I think the lowest career WAR on the Level of Excellence is 43. Other than Joe who has 17. Slightly? He is there because he hit the biggest HR in franchise history and one of the biggest ever. Which is fine but lets be clear about why he is there. As a player, over rated dramatically.

Never forget it. Otis Nixon drag bunt. Timlin picks it up and flips to who at first who catches it to end game and win World Series. He immediately starts jumping up and down. It's Joe Carter 1992.

92 & 93 WS years Carter was worth 2 and 2.9 WAR. Olerud was worth 3.1 and 8.1. Olerud was benched those years in playoffs to get Carters bat into the game. History is kinder to this because Carter hit THE home run. Thats why he is on the Level Of Excellence and Jose who also was dramatically better, for example, isn't. Nor is Olerud. But he was over rated. Total trash? Of course not. Pretty good? Yes. He was kind of like Teo in comparison relative to the 22 Jays.

Terminator sarcasm? 17 career WAR. Hmm. Durable as hell. Hey, I'll never ever forget watching that home run and be eternally grateful. That's a moment that is so rare and lives forever. But I know a few people who knew him some and all said he was a bit of a jerk. Under rated? Don't think so.

lol. Love this reaction. We still won cause immense talent and this line up was Leagues standard. Olerud was benched for Carter which is shocking if you look at the numbers today. Simple answer on Carter in 4th spot = Dem' Ribbeys Look at Carters career stats. Ungodly over rated.

That was kind of my point. Ron Leflore, Ricky Henderson, Willie Wilson, Raines when he came up, Vince Coleman, Otis Nixon on and on. That was the thing back then. Henderson was ideal in that role given his speed and OBP. Brock/Wills were before my time.

So bored no baseball. Committed heresy and listened to Wilner pod for first time because Devo was on it. He reminded me the '93 WS winner went 3-13 at one point in July. Gives some perspective to the recent skid. Lot of guys OTB too young to remember Devo. Swung too much and didn't get on base enough (so naturally Cito had him LO) 42 career WAR and started triple play in the WS that no video replay ruined. He was so smooth in CF. (just realized other teams playing today. all is good)

Ryu/Kooch/Chatwood/Berrios/Gausman/Roark/Yates/Garcia/Ray/Matz - since 20 the FO has been signing a fair number of arms. Some have worked out. They have gotten rid of a #1 pick and SWR arms in the process. Takes a combo of D, offence and pitching to win in this league. Jays would be foolish to not look at what they have to give up for Soto, or any other asset that could add net value to this team. Maybe pitching isn't on the list to go.

Hmmm. He is 23 so maybe. He is having a "down" year and his wRC+ is over 150 and OBP over .400. Not much not to love. His D I guess. Still at the time Pujols left St Louis there was a lot of this kind of talk about the generational bat he was, but he has stunk for 5-6 years and St Louis was thrilled he only came back on the goodbye tour. Granted, he wasn't 23, which is a big differentiator. With inflation and the NPV of those dollars 10-14 out, one can wrap their head around it for Soto. Especially since it's not our $.

Absolutely. And who would want him at that price/term? He is a great player but do those deals ever work out well? Watching Pujols and Miggy is a constant reminder of the pitfalls, granted Soto is only 23 and inflation has been higher than in many years. This talk is all for fun anyway. Extremely doubtful it happens with the Jays. One thing about this FO though us they are not predictable. Many said a Ramirez deal was a pipe dream and reporting later indicates it wasn't. They have traded away a #1 pick and 2 of their top prospects already to get Chappy and Berrios. They fired Charlie when I didn't see the coming. Who knows.

For sure he was offered a lot. Turning it down is the bet. I said the same thing as you in many ways about what Judge turned down. Good for them if they want to take the risk. Soto or Judge could f*** their knee or hip this weekend in a game and then they stupidly walked away from potentially hundreds of millions. Personally I don't get it. But good for them.

I never blame the players for betting on themselves. Its 100% a business. The owners give out the insane contracts over and over again. One only has to look at 2B and SS for TEX from the 2021 off season to see the evidence of why it can pay to bet on ones self if you are a player.

100%. Addition by irreplaceable subtraction of Manoah can't happen. If you squint hard we can get by ok without Bo using Espy and Biggio, with Soto bat addition. I actually don't know how well espy would do at SS but I can't imagine he would be any lesser than Bo. For all the talk of not draining the system this FO has already traded Gunner and change, with 2 top prospects for Berrios. This deadline will be interesting.

You are probably right. Moreno and the others would definitely be on their list. But 1 more year of Bo, than Soto, at a high arb cost to them is probably not that attractive.

The Jays could for sure sign both, if its what they are worth. The question is would they want to? Bo is 25 has 1500 career PAs and a 118 wRC+. Career 9 WAR over parts of 4 seasons. BBs 5% and K's 22%. Right now he is a league average SS bat. His D numbers are mediocre at best in a premium run prevention position, as best as I can understand them. Baez was older at 28 but signed for 6/140. Bo will want a lot more than that no? Vlad's value long term deal is worth something like $180M now. He will want a lot more than that no? Soto, Vlad and Bo will find a buyer to overpay. They are all going to make a lot of money and I'd be surprised if any of them are on the Jays in 2026. As an aside I don't know how much syrupy talk I heard for a year about "Johnny Gaudreau loves Calgary, and all of his family love Calgary. He came up with them ya da ya da". Dumped Calgary for even less money to play in Ohio. This is a business and they are going to go wherever they want at the time. I'm a Bruins fan, but I can't believe how much some fans place emotional moments they see on the bench and ice in FA discussions. I watched Doc, Delgado, Jose, Bell, Moseby, Barfield alllllll go. Man....did everyone miss what happened with Freeman? AA is a stud for the deal he did on the heels of that with OAK. A+ pivot. So if (huge if) we can put a deal together with Bo/Moreno etc for Soto and move Espy to SS for this year, and make the most of the time/assets we have, I'm all for it. Jays won a WS with Manny Lee at SS in '92. Couldn't hit a beach ball. Plus offence is nice from SS but you can trade off for D value and pay less. Net net that deal costs us 1 less arb year of Bo plus whatever else goes. Its expensive, but kicking the can down the road only delays their likely departure, and gives us mediocrity in the interim.

A 2.5 year rental? We have Vlad and Bo 1 year more = 3.5 year rentals. And that last extra year will be the most arb expensive if they are producing. Lourdes and Teo have a shorter fuse. I'd move Bo in the right deal. Is he really the SS long term with his pitch selection and Defensive limitations? I question it. Lots can change in that time but both of them will test the market if we don't overpay to extend.