Dick_Pole

Wasn't connor arguing something about big time home run bats being more important in the playoffs in his own connor way last year, and all you guys were ganging up on how stupid he was? Now you are basically arguing the same thing except in nerd speak with evidence and data. And you're complaining the Jays front office being behind in the times! I nominate connor to be the new GM. The team will either be s*** or World Series winners. No in-betweens. Like the Red Sox from a decade ago.

Masai is black and AA is "ethnic white". Pasty caker white boys with glasses stay at Rogers forever. This is that whole institutional racism thing that you hear about, except it only counts when middle class blue collar men are the perceived benefactors.

Just checking in to see how the "hope the Jays suck so Atkins gets fired" crowd is doing.

Another thing to his advantage, and maybe it's just his face, but he honestly does not look like he gives a f***. Stieb is out there all sweating like a pig for his attempted no-hitters and this guy is ho-hum whatever. He'd make an excellent closer. He kind of reminds me of Casey Janssen except with better stuff. Janssen punched way above weight class for a while. A fringe pitcher turned effective closer for a few years basically because of confidence. So if Francis has #4 type of stuff, he has the personality that could carry him to #2.

Ace because this board has been 100% dead wrong when it comes to these polls on pitchers. Remember the one where people had to pick Stroman or Sanchez as the better pitcher and it was like 75% or something on Sanchez? This poll is the #1 guarantee that he will do well.

No, it's never better to lose more and tank your franchise value and fan base. Loser, socialist mindset created from the loser incentives baked into the sports leagues of the supposed hyper-capitalist American society. They should do what they do in European soccer leagues and jettison s***** teams to a lower league. Not reward them with higher draft picks. If I was commissioner, the #1 pick would go to the highest ranked team that missed the playoffs. If you lose 100, you lose your first round pick. You know what's more beneficial? Actually getting a front office that knows how to draft and develop talent. When is the last time the Jays have drafted and developed a quality outfielder? I'll give you a hint, the team has won 95, lost 95 and done everything in between. Draft position hasn't mattered.

To win as many games as possible? Players should only be traded for potential impact talent. Not org bottom feeders. Could be a legit reason, except the team will have a very hard to threading this needle with only tradeable expiring contracts.

We hate Atkins because of the rough shape of the farm system. What good is a few winning seasons, leveraging players acquired from the previous regime and a large payroll, when the result is zero playoff wins?

How many wedgies, swirlies and noogies did Atkins take from Donaldson to turn into such a stooge that he can't even alert players when they've been traded? This is the least worst of the three trades so far, still pretty bad. But the eXpiRiNg cOnTrAcTs crowd got what they wanted. Garbage trades for the sake of trades from this clown show operation.

I get why Crochet would want to make such a demand but he doesn't have nearly the pedigree nor leverage to do so. Plus where is the competitive spirit? If he feels he has limited time in his baseball career, wouldn't winning a championship be top priority? Enjoy throwing whatever pitches you have left for a last place team, Garrett.

But, but, but...morons were cheering for the team to tank! Without giving a thought to the idea that the team struggling would be highly correlated to individual players potentially used as trade bait also struggling.

Hope the losers from Loserville are happy. "Trade for the sake of trading expiring contracts". Anybody with half a brain could see this s*** a mile away. Should have just kept him. 95% chance Garcia pitching 10 innings before blowing out his arm is actually the winning side to this trade.

85 win team with a decent offense led by a 54 home run breakout star that was missing a top end ace. Imagine if Halladay was on the team. It probably wins 90+. 93 if we apply his 8 WAR and drop the rotating replacement level talents who filled out the 5-spot that year. If two of those wins come against the Yankees the Jays make the playoffs. And even if they miss, the season likely goes well enough to convince Halladay to stay with this sufficiently competitive team. But no no no, the Jays HAD to be sellers at the end of 2009, because that was the conventional wisdom. Can't let Halladay go for nothing! Might as well get some Dickey fodder and if you squint hard enough a couple of good years out of Devon Travis (not to say the Jays couldn't have acquired him through trading another player). The Halladay trade IMO is easily one of the top 5 worst trades the team has done. The poor return, the poor timing and the franchise impact (Roy Halladay the "baseball player" is in the HOF). I still hear people whine and moan about the Donaldson trade and how he should have been traded a year sooner. Nuh-uh, the Halladay trade is 1000x worse than the Donaldson non-trade. Whine about that instead. This franchise could have seen a very different trajectory from 2010 onwards. Who knows what kind of butterfly effect there would have been. THAT is something to regret. Not some bust that Atkins would have gotten out of Donaldson had he traded him 8 months earlier. I write this in a new thread because multiple threads are inundated with losers from Loserville with their loser mindset writing about how the Jays NEED to go full rebuild. But luckily they doubt it will happen. Because as much as we all hate Rogers, we all have to admit being the dominant player in an oligopoly has them in an alpha position and mindset. Rogers correctly feels that the Jays should not go into a full rebuild. Losing doesn't beget winning. Losing begets more losing and your franchise losing value and earning power. You know what begets winning? Good drafting and player development. And if the current crop of beta dipshits running the team have proven incapable of doing so, you fire those dipshits and find somebody who can. You don't go full early 2010s Astros and rack up multiple 100-loss seasons.

It's stuff like this that has me worried Atkins will be pulling some mega beta male ********. Tiedemann plus Kiermaier plus Turner for salary relief. People are in here like "hope the Jays trade some expiring contracts". You really want this team standing pat with this desperate loser in charge. Atkins has been a marked man since the Stroman trade. Like the guy who gets raped in prison the first day there. The league knows when the Jays are sellers you can lowball this man to no end.

You get my viewpoint. Except for the fact that you're going back to this default of "diminished value" as justification to make moves just for making moves' sake. If Jansen nets you one 26 year old 92 MPH fastball pitcher, netting two for Guerrero or three for Gausman is going to help absolutely nothing. But it will turn the MLB team into a laughingstock, crater the near term revenue potential and entice Rogers to cut bait and reduce payroll. Like I said, the biggest asset this team has is payroll flexibility. The second biggest asset is the ability to fire Atkins and clean house. Try to bury your PTSD over the Donaldson trade for a moment and realize that there are bigger things to worry about than "maximizing the value of every player". If the Jays maintain their payroll, some smart flexing of that cash can see the Jays follow a Phillies-like trajectory instead of a White Sox one.

Okay then take it up with the guy who is saying the Jays should do such a thing. Because every day that passes erodes value. Well then prepare to get excited over three 26 year old AAAA guys with o0o0o0o0odles of control!!! Because that's exactly what the Jays are going to get with the current dope in charge making those trades. This team needs top end talent not more Espinal-like depth piece jobbers. It already has plenty of that. Yeah, in lieu of getting top end talent, I'd rather go the Rockies way of sinking or swimming with the roster as is than the Blue Jays way of collecting s*** bags then having to watch Max scour the internet for data points that suggest they aren't shitbags and have the board pretend those were good moves.

No one is going to pay through the roof for a 120 OPS+ slap hitting first baseman with no speed making $20+ million a year. CJ Cron can be had for free basically any time. What did Juan Soto net this past offseason? Divide that by, like, 10 and that's Guerrero's return potential right now. Who gives a s*** if they trade him June 23, 2024 or July 31, 2025? At least in the latter scenario you have an outside chance of this guy getting his Babe Ruth mojo back and you have someone of value. f***ing former MVP Josh Donaldson got you Jacob Waguespack in a similar down/injury year as Bichette is having. You think the O's are calling up and offering Jackson Holliday for him? Especially with a GM known to be a desperate beta male that accepts returns like Anthony Kay for top trade bait? People are saying that the Jays shouldn't do a rebuild until Atkins is gone which is essentially the same as me saying stand pat yet my post isn't substantive. I guarantee you if Atkins went full on with the rebuild as those with the loser mentality wish, they all would be VERY disappointed with the return. And then have a 60 win team on top of it. The biggest asset this team has right now is payroll flexibility. High payroll, relatively low long term commitments with nothing bad outside of Springer. The last thing we need is for Rogers to pull the plug on that and chop it down to $125 million or something during lean years. This team can't afford lean years and frankly should have the ability to avoid lean years.

If the player in question would net you Jacob Waguespack or less in a deal, then yes, standing pat and hoping for the best is a perfectly viable choice.

No, it's not a blessing in disguise. A tank implies worse performing players and a declining trade value for these players. Enough with this loser mentality. Losing begets more losing it doesn't beget winning. Houston and Baltimore had more going on than just a bunch of 100 loss seasons.

Here comes the loser defeatist mentality again. "If only they tanked harder in 2017, they would have been better in 2021-23". Uhh, no. If this team was better at drafting and player development, it would have been better in 2017 AND 2021. Trading the pending free agents aren't going to bring in a haul big enough to move the needle long term. Bichette is at his lowest possible value and Guerrero has settled in to become an okay player but no one is going to pay much for his skill set. The only true rebuild is if you trade the four main starters and even that is questionable with Gausman not doing great and Berrios' value muted by his contract. Teams that have worse records than the Jays have better trade prospects. Which is a function of what this team has built. A 26 man roster of mediocrity. No one obscenely terrible except Springer and elements of the BP, no one great. 35-41 would have brought that fait to this team. A team performing just poorly enough that none of the guys to be traded in a proposed rebuilt are worth a damn. The only option this team has is to roll with it and hope for the best. Don't be like the Angels last year, but it's also pointless to tear it down. Hope the team gets hot in the latter half of the year like historically it tends to do. *my opinion is in no way shape or form biased by my bets I made a couple of weeks ago

You don't need RC+, OPS+ or whatever ranking to know that the offense has been bad. All you need to know is that the Jays called up some scrub, put him in the leadoff spot, and immediately the offense looks a bit better.

RC+ is just Connor's short form scapegoat for "the nerds running this team f***ing suck and so does anyone who tries to parcel out certain data points to try to defend them". Like his hero Trump who says something but really means something else vaguely tied to it. Why that isn't obvious to everyone by now and you all pile on him every time he brings it up is beyond me. There is no denying that the team could have used Joe Carter in the middle of the lineup these past two years. Yeah okay, he was on a stacked Jays team. He was also on an ass Cleveland team for a decade and still managed to drive in 100 RBI every year.

The issue I guess is lack of clutch and power making a deadly combination. This team is historically kind of lousy with the "clutch" factor, or maybe that's just home team fan bias. But historically made up for it by clubbing a billion solo home runs throughout the year. Now they don't hit singles with guys on second nor do they hit homers with no one on either. Therefore tankage in runs per game.

Ok, planted a decent chunk of cash on the Jays. $1,000 to win 80+ games (-128) $500 to make the playoffs (+350, much better than Cecil's lame bet) $50 free bet to make the playoffs (+300) $50 to win 90+ games (+750) $10 to win the AL East (+7,000) My reasoning: 1. Seen enough out of the starters to know they are going to carry the team. 2. Guerrero is heating up, Bichette will eventually follow. Team is finally getting better at line-up construction. 3. BP can't be this s*** forever. Let's do this! Could use a 20 game win streak out of nowhere. If I'm wrong I'll just make the money back on some penny stock.

The Score. It's +245 on Fanduel right now. Fanduel has an open deposit bonus $100 for $200 deposit so I'll probably take advantage of that then dump it all into this bet without impacting my current bankroll. Much better than taking BigCecil's lame $500 straight bet he tried to coerce and bully Terminator into.